Shiverer or something else..?

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clairew

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Big grey dope has always had something bizarre with his back end (apart from the fact it's massive:rolleyes::D).
When we first bought him he looked a bit like he had a sticky stifle, his LH would always poke out at a jaunty angle, you can see in the picture below here how he used to stand (excuse the husband poking a carrot up his nose...)
Horsepictures006.jpg

When we got him home vet agreed that it was sticky stifle, as he could walk backwards (just) but could turn on a tight circle fine. When we moved him into the stable at the yard we are at he was never very steady on his feet in the stable, always used to shuffle around like an old man, we've since moved him to a larger stable and he seems happier he's got more space but still drags his bed around as he never picks his feet up.
A girl rode him out a couple of times and came off him once when apparently he twisted hismelf half on and half off a high bank, after which he was definately worse at moving around. Equine physio came out and his back was very sore (lumbar area) and suggested he was a shiverer and make sure he was in constant work.
He's never been the easiest to shoe or to pick his back feet out but the more work he's now doing the better, and it's a lot less of a battle, farrier can shoe without much trouble.
He does have the classic shaky moments where he seems to get stuck with his back end wobbling. Someone saw him in the field with an episode like this that went on for a couple of minutes which then just stopped, he was doing nothing odd before to cause it (hadn't just got up or been running/farting around). I got back yesterday from a 2 hour hack on him and he stood in his stable and snatched his RH up a couple of times, I've never seen him do this before. Vet has just said same as physio to make sure he is in regular work. I've read up about diet and he is on a high fibre diet. I soak his hay for 12 hours, and once I've got more weight off him (he came to us very overweight) I will try and add oil into his diet.
I was just a bit confuzzled :confused: as the more you read a lot of the things you read say shivering can be confused with other things - like what..?! I've started to read about EPSM, which is why I'd like to try adding oil into his diet.
How much will being overweight affect him?
What would you consider 'light' but regular exercise? As in how much can he do? I don't jump him but would like to at some point (when I get over my fear of leaving the ground :D). Dressage wise he can look pretty when he puts his mind to it :rolleyes: but rein back is a no-no still, as that really doesn't look pretty and he tends to have a bit of a shivering episode.
God that was long winded....
Have got some flat coke and a cold pizza slice to share if you've got this far.
 
My 26 yr old is a shiverer, and I've definitely found the more work he is in the less he shivers. I have also moved him to a new yard, roughly a month ago, and he is shivering less now that he is able to be out 24/7 (i dont know if you stable your lad at all or no - I may have missed that bit if you have already said whether or not you do!!) I do 1-2 hours (sometimes more) of work with him 2-3 (again sometimes more) times a week, mostly walk with a bit of trot and the odd canter. It has no effect at all on Quin's ridden work and he would more than likely still go and jump a course if he had his way (sadly I'm not as keen on jumping as he is!) He can't pick his hind leg up that it effects at all but as he is barefoot, he self trims it.

I should think your boy would be able to easily manage the same work load as my lad, the more work you can do with him and the fitter you can get him, you will probably find that he does shiver slightly less.

You may find this link (http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers/home.html) an interesting read. It has a lot about shivers and I certainly found it useful when I first got my lad as i had never even heard of it before!
 
I was looking for the carrot too!

Sorry don't know the answer to your question, but just wanted to say what a lovely horse.

P.S Your hubby looks well 'ard by the way! :)
 
I'm asking myself this about my rising 5 year old boy now... he's been doing 'his funny leg thing' as I like to call it since about November... I think AFTER I started a course of physio with him but can't be sure.

The only time I have seen him do it is when stood on the yard, typically when I ask him to move over left to right and he picks his left hind up, waggles it around in the air before hesitantly putting it down. He can back up fine though (do it every day for breakfast, dinner and treats when I let him go in the field). It was my physio who suggested it could be shivers but typically the one time I had the opportunity to talk to the vet about it, he only displayed VERY mild signs (had a short period off work due to snow... wich doesn't really tally with shivers). Vet has just said to work him and build him up. physio has given us stretches to do and told me to crack on with work and do a bit of pole work to help get him picking his feet up.

He has tightness in his back end on the affected side. and I noticed today that he struggleswalking down hill when the ground is wet (which I know doesn't sound unusual but he did really seem to struggle and wanted to stop all the way down).

I am doing a little trial - putting him on bute for 10 days to see if that eases anything as I understand bute isn't meant to have much if any affect on a true shiverer, before I go back to my vet to discuss further or look at laying him off for a while...
 
Funny that you say about going down hills, during the hack on Monday flint just stopped whilst we were going down one hill (don't think it was just to admire the view :) ) as if he just needed to take a breather. He's not normally too bad at going down hills but it was strange.
 
Some of what you have said about your boy is what my 16 yr old WB does. When i 1st got him he was sound but had a "shiver" tail flick thing and would do it when you touched his heels, even v lightly or with water/brush etc - very odd, he also dragged his hind feet - I didnt notice this to begin with (i rarely trot on roads and he only does it in trot) he must have been doing it in the school as his toes were becoming squared off.

I called the vet who did flexion tests etc and he was 100% so he looked at his back and said he was sore behind the saddle and to get physio. Physio came and did a lot of work on him over several months - the v odd thing is that the "spasm" behind the saddle (that the vet thought was soreness) never went - with weekly physio, time off and bute!!

Time continued and he stayed in full work until one day after doing raised poles he went lame on his RH. Vet came out and agreed he was 2-3/10 lame and that a full lameness work up was necessary. To cut a v long story short his lameness was an irregular lameness that even on nerve blocks (fetlock, hock, stifle, sacroillic etc) did not go and moved between RH and LH, the bone scan showed "hot spots" on his spine, hock and sacroillic. Vet x-rayed and decided that he had re-modelling of the bone and gave him Tildren.

He went home and was rested. Things got progressively worse - he had his shoes removed and was going to be turned away for 6 months to see what happened. The night his shoes were removed he became routed to the spot - i mean you could have pushed him over - he literally couldnt move!! Vet came out as an emergency and thought he had a tumour on his spine that had ruptured! He was given a HUGE dose of steriods and 12 hours to see what he would do but vet said he thought he would have to PTS.

The next day he was better so the vet came out and agreed that we could give him some more time to see what progress he would make and another HUGE dose of steriods. 2nd vet came out to see him a few days later (yep i spent £7k of insurance on all the vet visits!!) and said he had, had an acute attack of laminitis due to his shoes being removed - 1st vet and farrier disgareed and said no signs of lamintis (no ridges ever came down on his hoof) and thought it was neurological esp as the steriods made him better not worse as should have if laminitis.

I got vets to refer him to RVC where he saw a neuroloical specialist. They did loads of tests, x-rays etc etc. The vet was stumped with him and said it was def neurological but he tested negative for wobblers etc but he thought it was either stiff horse syndrome or a very strange form of shivers and not a "classic" case (backing up is not great for him, he has the occassional true "shiver" and doesnt always seem to know where his legs are!!)

Blood tests were sent to USA for stiff horse syndrome (he would have been the 1st in the UK apparently if he had tested positive) and was put on a 100 steriod pills a day for 3 weeks - now that was fun counting them all out and trying to get him to eat them!! Blood test came back negative for stiff horse and the steriod pills didnt change anything!!

The only thing that came out of ALL of the tests was that one of his vertebrae in his neck was fused to another one - but RVC vets said many horses have this with no clinical problems!

So i decided to turn him away and see what happened!! 5 months after all this 1st happened he was sound and so i decided to bring him slowly into work - 3 months in hand walking (progressing from 10 mins to over an hour) and then ridden work - hacking for a year and then slowly introducing schooling - even now only 1 session in the school a week. 2 years on and (touching wood) he is doing okay! Unfortunately he has been out of work for 9 weeks as I have had a back Op and his tail "shiver" is worse!!

Vets are stumped and still dont know what is wrong but shivers is the only thing that they think it could be. I tried the EPSM diet as I was told this may work by 1st vet but RVC neurological vet advised no scientific evidence but also no harm except weight gain - so now he is on HiFi light, sunflower oil, linseed oil, alfa pellets, cortaflex and Benevit and is doing well - i only use about 150ml of oil (at one point he was on about half a pint of the stuff!!) and he seems okay and i didnt notice any difference from the high amount to this amount except the waist line!

Sorry if this is v long winded but just wanted to say that all the money thrown at him never got me a true answer so even if your boy has shivers i would enjoy him - take things slowly and see what happens - if he gets worse back off if doesnt carry on!! One thing vets did say was that straight lines are better - and that he may struggle more schooling, they went as far to say that XC may be ok but not to over do the SJ - i generally work on this principle and keep school work to a minimum and dont do any lateral, small circle etc and NEVER rein back!!!

Goo Luck! PS Loved the pic of you OH and the carrot make me lol!!
 
Thanks Twigben, our two sound very similar! There are times when you would say that Flint looks absolutely fine, then he has these little 'judders'. He gets bad when he gets nervous, walk him up to a new trailer in the car park and his back end goes to jelly. He can still bronco like a good 'un, saw him doing a very good display in the field the other day! :rolleyes:
Ridden wise he seems fine, sometimes he tends to lurch forward if going from a standstill, but once warmed up properly he goes fine. Can look stiff at times, normally when he's not done anything for a while. He used to drag his back feet and trip sometimes, accompanied with the fact he's the most easily distracted boy ever we have taken a joint tumble in the school whilst trotting about :( Had farrier out to take his toes back a bit, started doing more with him and he doesn't trip at all, where he used to trip quite a lot.
Flint is only just 7 and he still has more growing to do, so I'll be interested to see if he gets better once he's grown into himself, often wondered if they get growing pains...?!
 
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