Shivers symptoms ridden.

ali123

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So giving a bit of background - I bought my horse in April 2017 he is now rising 9 years old, Irish sport horse x cob approx 16.2/3hh gelding. We have on and off had problems with his back end ridden and none ridden. The vet says he wasn't lame when he saw him but he is intermittent. He also passed a neurological exam but again he was fine when the vet was there doing it.
About 6 months ago he started shaking his back leg when we picked his feet out. The vet thinks he probably is a shiverer but not anything he can do about it and he says it shouldn't affect him ridden.
2 months ago he went in for a lameness workup and was diagnosed with mild arthritis in hocks and had steroid injections. This seemed to help a bit with steering issues I was having ridden.
2 weeks ago started having steering issues again. Then today on the way out on a hack he snatched one back leg up (like a dog would with a thorn stuck in a foot) and couldn't seem to work out how to put it down again. Walking back down the drive he looked like he was drunk in his back end and thought he was going to fall over. The vet has been out and isn't sure. He isn't lame but his movement still isn't right. He is happy as Larry even when it's happening. Eating normally. Only thing is he is a bit dehydrated. Vet has put him on bute and box rest for 5 days but I'm not confident this is going to make a difference. I personally think it is the shivers presenting unusually but vet will be reluctant to accept this as it usually doesn't affect them ridden. He struggles to walk down hills normally he crosses his legs and wobbles. He almost never stands straight on both back legs he always rests one and he stands in really weird positions. He passed a tail pull test today and previously so unlikely to be a wobbler. Does anyone have experience with anything like this?
Thanks in advance.
 

Theocat

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I think I would be asking for a second opinion, and trying to get as much as you can on video if the horse has a habit of having good days when the vet visits.

I also question the value of Bute and box rest. It sounds more like something that's going to benefit from movement (or, rather, could be exacerbated by rest - unless that's what the vet is checking?)

I am sure you aren't planning to, but I wouldn't be getting on board again until you find a solution. The vet may think he "ought" to be okay, but he plainly isn't!

I've known and ridden similar horses with a variety of causes. I definitely think a second pair of vet eyes could be useful...
 

ali123

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It was a different vet from the same practice today. Definitely won't be riding him. And yes I agree that box rest might exacerbate the problem I'm not sure that is the vets intention but I'm sure if it gets worse it will make it easier to diagnose.
Got plenty of videos from today that the vet took to show the other vet and have previously taken videos.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I would certainly be getting a 2nd opinion. Your vet should at least know which tests would be useful. I would be reluctant to box-rest tbh, as I can imagine that lack of exercise could exacerbate the problems with loss of muscle tone, on top of whatever is actually going on.
 

ali123

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Okay I will look at getting a different vet out. I will also enquire about tests we could carry out. He will only be rested til Monday and if it is an injury problem (even though I think unlikely) turning him out will make that worse and I think that is riskier than keeping him in when he could really have done with going out.
 

Red-1

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As there seems to be a neurological issue, whether shivering or wobbling, I would be booking into the nearest good vet hospital for a back/neck X ray. The vet hospitals seem to have better/stronger X ray machines for the neck and back. Also blood tests to see if his blood is way out of whack somewhere.
 

ali123

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The vet did say to take him in to the hospital if he's not improved by Monday on the box rest and bute. Where they will do more tests. His back isn't at all sore and he has had a sore back before and he's normally really sensitive. I know that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with his back necessarily though.
 

Shay

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Sounds like a horse I had (briefly) with wobbler syndrome? With shivers the issue is more obvious moving backward but with wobblers it is more obvious going downhill. Or at least thats what we were told. The other thing the vet did when making a diagnosis was to push the horses' quarters sharply. A normal horse braces against the shove. A horse with wobblers will stagger sideways. We had the horse on LWVTB so didn't progress to x-rays ourselves.
 

ali123

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I had heard usually horses with wobblers fail a tail pull though and he didn't he braced nicely against the pull. And he does shiver when picking feet out in the classic shiverer way. Will mention it to the vet though.
 

4faults

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I have had two shiverers and they haven’t presented anything like your boy. His symptoms do sound a lot like a friend of mines horse though. They x-rayed and found arthritis in the hock which was then medicated and no improvement was seen. After a trip to horsey hospital and an mri it was found to have torn the suspensory ligament very high up, no swelling or anything to suggest ligament damage and they are now exploring treatment options. Good luck I hope you get an answer soon I know how frustrating it can be
 

sportsmansB

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I have had a shiverer and had absolutely no issues ridden at all- literally just for farrier and picking out feet. He was a bit clumsy to rein back in the beginning but he got over it.
He is lucky to have you trying so hard to find out what is wrong, good luck x
 

ali123

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They say that there is nothing wrong with him. I'm at a loose end I'm not sure what to do. I know there is something wrong with him!! The vets don't seem to understand the meaning of intermittent.
 

Theocat

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Oh God, I'm sorry - not helpful at all when you know yourself there is something wrong! Could you turn away for six weeks then have another look and see how he feels? In other circumstances you could try more work to bring it out, but it already sounds as though that wouldn't necessarily be safe if he's already a bit wobbly.
 

ali123

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The vet seems to think he's perfectly safe to ride. I rode him at the vets today and he was normal. Vet has suggested to keep going as normal and if he has another episode to video it. Said there is not much they can do if they don't see him do it. The x rays were clean and he was perfectly normal today. Passed all neurological tests and wasn't shivering when they picked his back feet up.
 

SEL

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I managed to get my OH to take footage of me "riding" my PSSM mare on boxing day because adrenalin takes over on vet work ups and it's really hard to explain the problem. Her back just feels disconnected and in the video it looks odd too - which in a weird way is a relief.

The only way I could get mine to this stage was by riding her. Didn't feel right to do so, but when answers are needed....
 
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