Shocked at poor riding standards of potential buyers!!!

hippiechick

hippiechick

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2008
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Kent
littlemill-liveries.co.uk
Is it usual for the general standard of riding of buyers to be this bad?? or Is this my fault - should I advertise differently??

I have a lovely sweet natured 15.1hh 6yro coloured RC type mare for sale and I have clearly stated in my advert that she is

'forward going, kind & genuine with real potential but lightly schooled and green so not suitable for novices'

and yet I have been genuinely shocked by the poor standards of riding of potential buyers!

Yesterday a teenager & mother came to try her, I had carefully quizzed both over the phone as to levels of experience & riding ability etc and had been re-assured that both were competent riders, had experience of young horses and rode quietly with soft hands!!

The young girl had no balance at all, insisted on riding with ridiculously long stirrups (because she 'rode dressage'!) held on by the reins hanging on to my poor mare's mouth & generally bounced around the school until I had to ask her to stop. My lovely horse was so confused & look really scared by the experience. At that satge the mother declared the horse unsuitable and totally unschooled!!

This is about the 6th out of 10 viewings that has not gone well. This horse goes beautifully for us and has done for my neice and other friends who had never ridden her before & who are not experts.

Really interested in your opinions or experiences in selling horses!!
 
I think people do have very inflated ideas of their riding ability.
We had the opposite to you in that went to try a horse. Owner was telling us how she regularly jumped 3'6" with this horse and if he didn't sell would be starting to compete around 1.10mtr courses. Great. So I set up a simple oxer which was all of 85cm high and 90cm wide. Owner asked me to make it narrower as she wasn't used to jumping a fence THAT wide. :rolleyes:
 
We had my well schooled palomino up for sale but was up for a lot less as she hadnt been out competing this year as we had no means of transport but she is sensitive forward going mare and so many people couldnt ride her, they would be holding her so much but all legs so she woild be doing a really stuffy trot i was quite amazed as to how many people couldnt ride a sensitive schooled horse but we have decided for now to get her out hunting and competing over the wiNter and maybe put her up again as we now have transport! And hopefully will get some people who can ride her :( very aukward the person will come i do completly sympathise!
 
Thanks for that - It really is heart breaking to watch the poor horse doing their best and really not understanding at all what the rider is doing!! Most seem so unbalanced and heavy handed which is horrible to watch.

Am also thinking of now keeping her over the winter and puttying her up again next year, if she was just a bit bigger I'd keep her!
 
It can be a steep learning curve for buyer and seller when trying horses.

I know that I was shocked at my own cr&pness when I tried a horse out last year. Lovely mare, but incredibly sensative - and I couldn't ride one side of her. Was very glad to get off and say thanks but no thanks.

Some people want to save face and blame the horse - I was happy to hold my hand up and say I simply couldn't ride her and she was too much horse for me.
 
When I had my tb up for sale I had a few people that I didn't even let them on him. They talked the talk but when they turn up wearing a bp, hat in the car, then wouldn't even touch him. I just thought no way.

He is mega sentive, and needs the lightest hand/ leg contact, I didn't want to put them or my boy at risk.

Lucky I sent him away on sales livery, although I did see as many viewings as poss, but the level of those viewings were much higher but they were only word of mouth and from local riders so my chap knew most if them before they came.
 
Equally, when we were looking for a 13.2ish pony for my daughter who had previously only ridden at riding schools and loaned an 11.2, when viewing one we were asked if she would like to start off on the lunge by the sellers friend (after the seller had ridden) and said friend was suitably impressed and said to one side out of earshot of seller that thought daughter rode far more considerately than seller!
 
amymay said:
It can be a steep learning curve for buyer and seller when trying horses.

I know that I was shocked at my own cr&pness when I tried a horse out last year. Lovely mare, but incredibly sensative - and I couldn't ride one side of her. Was very glad to get off and say thanks but no thanks.

Some people want to save face and blame the horse - I was happy to hold my hand up and say I simply couldn't ride her and she was too much horse for me.
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I too have done this, tried a standard bred out, who didn't look on the great side but super temperament. The girl got on and it was all over the place, had to ask her to put the bit up as it was banging on it's teeth. It went a little better but not great. I got on, rode it a lot better then the girl but still couldn't ride it correctly. Couldn't get it relax, step though and the steering was something to be desired. Didn't even get it in canter and said it wasn't for me. Couldnt ride it for love nor money, nor could the girl.

I do wonder what happened to that horse, I fear it went for meat as the girl needed a quick sale
 
Well i will be keeping my mare too if i get a promotion :o but realistically she needs to go as we have our two bigger youngsters to concentrate on! But i love her to bits and dont want to make the mistake of selling for the sake of it we had a lady from france wanted to buy her just for hacking! She absoloutley adores her work schooling jumping hacking xc etc that it just wasnt right so said no! :o

Yeah had one lady come out soaring at her mouth! And kyra just zig zagging round the schhol i told her to get off if you have heavy handed people tell them to drop the reins :o i am awful though and will tell someone straight up that they need to get off :o
 
If you have had 10 viewings and not sold something is wrong, and I dont mean your horse, you are for some reason attracting the wrong people. Often the more experienced people are put off by a badly written ad or a poor photo. Not novice ride has many implications, the genuinely experienced riders often read "its a total nut" the novice rider reads "ideal for me" as I am not a beginner.

The standard of riding never ceases to amaze me when selling and also when buying, have tried one "ready to do BE Intro" that stopped at a cross pole with its "event rider" owner, and then would only go badly over a tiny upright.

I would maybe reword your ad a little, suit capable rider to bring on for PC/RC activities, instead of green not suitable for novices. I never put a negative in an ad always positives.
 
amymay said:
It can be a steep learning curve for buyer and seller when trying horses.

I know that I was shocked at my own cr&pness when I tried a horse out last year. Lovely mare, but incredibly sensative - and I couldn't ride one side of her. Was very glad to get off and say thanks but no thanks.

Some people want to save face and blame the horse - I was happy to hold my hand up and say I simply couldn't ride her and she was too much horse for me.
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Same happened to me recently. Was so embarrassed! The horse was lovely but had always been ridden by professionals, and was just too sensitive for me when jumping. It can be quite difficult if you're used to riding one horse to ride strange horses when trying them. Mind you, I am talking about trying out horses as showjumpers, I can at least ride them on the flat ok!
 
elliegirl12 said:
Well i will be keeping my mare too if i get a promotion :o but realistically she needs to go as we have our two bigger youngsters to concentrate on! But i love her to bits and dont want to make the mistake of selling for the sake of it we had a lady from france wanted to buy her just for hacking! She absoloutley adores her work schooling jumping hacking xc etc that it just wasnt right so said no! :o

Yeah had one lady come out soaring at her mouth! And kyra just zig zagging round the schhol i told her to get off if you have heavy handed people tell them to drop the reins :o i am awful though and will tell someone straight up that they need to get off :o
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Yep me too - love this little mare but she just not big enough for us plus have 2 others & a youngster to bring on & compete next year so she will have to go. Have put plenty of riders on her to get her used to being ridden by new people but obviously I know these guys would ride her nicely!

It's the balance and the hands that shock me the most! Surely these things are taught in lesson 1!!!!!
 
I can completely sympathise! You feel extremely sorry for your poor horse abd wonder why the riders lie.inflate themselves knowing they will be trying the horse in front of you??!!! But then look at some people on x factor auditions?!?! I think some family members don't tell the truth on someone's ability in fear of upsetting said person eek!
 
be positive said:
If you have had 10 viewings and not sold something is wrong, and I dont mean your horse, you are for some reason attracting the wrong people. Often the more experienced people are put off by a badly written ad or a poor photo. Not novice ride has many implications, the genuinely experienced riders often read "its a total nut" the novice rider reads "ideal for me" as I am not a beginner.

The standard of riding never ceases to amaze me when selling and also when buying, have tried one "ready to do BE Intro" that stopped at a cross pole with its "event rider" owner, and then would only go badly over a tiny upright.

I would maybe reword your ad a little, suit capable rider to bring on for PC/RC activities, instead of green not suitable for novices. I never put a negative in an ad always positives.
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Thank you - thats really helpful & a very good point!! I am going to follow this advice - thanks
 
be positive said:
Not novice ride has many implications, the genuinely experienced riders often read "its a total nut" the novice rider reads "ideal for me" as I am not a beginner.
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Thats so true. Riding schools tend to have novice, intermediate and advanced levels with the advanced having what most would call the basics.
On the other side despite having ridden (and owned) and competed affiliated in all 3 disciplines for 47 years I still pass over not novice ride as agree I see it as meaning total nutter.
 
I advertised for a sharer for my Hackney who is very sensitive, needs a confident and experienced rider. what I got was

1) Someone shuffling their backside in the saddle like a dust cloth to ask my horse to move forward
2) Another who insisted on kick kick kick, when I already explained my horse responds to a light contact of the leg
3) Another could not trot to save her life
4) One would not do anything other than walk as she was scared, horse did nothing at all
5) Another had such bad position she fell off
6) Another was scared to ride without a bridle even though I had told her previously in an email that he was ridden in a Parelli hackamore and she assured me that was okay.


In the end I decided not to share him, to many idiots wasting my time.....
 
Oh and to add.., like someone else said in a riding school I worked in group 1 was known as novice" mostly lead rein / generally very new riders abd "advanced. " was group 3.. Those could do basic walk trot canter and maybe a small cross pole.. But in retrospect " advanced" is what I would call "novice" in the grand scheme of things xx
 
When I was selling my lovely 5 year old I had a 16 year old girl who wanted to hunt phone up. She sounded very brave and knowledgable and I was quietly excited that she may be the one. During our conversation she asked if I'd jumped any hedges out hunting to which I replied no as I had hunted him as a 4 year old and thought hedge popping would have been a bit too much for a 4 year old, she mentioned that this was her favorite part of hunting and I said I was sure he would be fine as a 5 year old and onwards. She came with her instructor to try him and the instructor rode him first. He went beautifully and popped a few fences willingly. The girl got on and as soon as she did I thought it wasn't right. She walked him forever, then mustered up a trot, with washing line reins, had to be encouraged by the instructor to 'have a canter' which she attempted many times by making him trot faster and allowing him to fall into canter, then complained that he didn't stay in canter. Her instructor told her to 'ask properly' to which she sat, booted him and he shot forward to which she then socked him in the mouth saying he was too sharp...needless to say I didn't hear back from them! Am looking forward to seeing her out hunting this season jumping hedges :)
 
Thing is, I think if you asked 5 riders what 'not a novice ride' means, you would get 7 answers and a punch-up! It's a difficult one, as how do you describe what a horse is like in limited words? I think it's most helpful when using the dreaded not a novice ride phrase if you explain why - whether it's because the horse is a bit green, a bit of a sensitive flower, a fire-breathing homicidal maniac with fangs...
 
I have a massive crisis of confidence when I try a new horse and (hopefully!) undersell myself. Almost didn't get on one this weekend as she looked too sensitive, but actually she was sweet and just young and unbalanced, which made me feel much better about my riding as she went pretty well in the circs :)

There does seem to be a variety of views about what terms like "forward going" mean, particularly if sellers are trying not to be too negative in their adverts to put people off! That could mean "will bomb off on you at the first opportunity, pulls like a train" or just "a nicely schooled horse that doesn't need a lot of leg". It's a case of trying to work out what you both mean as best you can over the phone, and being realistic and honest on both sides to avoid everyone wasting their time.

It's really hard to judge your own capabilities against other people's views - one person's "novice" is not necessarily the same as anothers and I think we are all very good at deceiving ourselves one way or another!! It's also incredibly difficult to assess a horse or rider in such a short time.

I probably don't ride for more than about 15 mins or so when trying a horse for the first time and there is such a lot going on to work out a different horse, particularly if you've had your own for a while. I tend to find I can ride some horses fairly easily but with others I'm terrible (I get off pretty quickly, usually in embarassment!).

There may be a far amount of 'bad riders' out there (or people who overestimate their ability) but I also think there is a lot of room for improvement in tuition. I've had years of trying the 'kick and pull' school of riding then had a massive breakthrough with Mary Wanless style of teaching, which has improved my riding unbelievably in a matter of weeks. Even if I am still a complete numpty with certain horses :)
 
Unfortuantly people think they are better then there actually are. Seen it alot when teaching. Had to leave one RS cause I told the pupils the truth and the owner wanted me to lie and say they are great so they would keep coming.:mad:

I would say I have experience of riding a range of horses but I can safely say I'm not confident riding a range of horses. :o Think alot of that is that I've been riding same 2 the last 3 years lol
 
I have been riding four years, prior to riding I was involved in the martial arts for a little over twenty five years.

I thought I has seen some egos and heard some bullshine in the martial arts, but it was absolutely nothing in comparison to the horse world.

I think there are far too many keen mums / instructors. I think it is great that they are trying to get their kids / clients riding more, but I think the whole exercise would be more productive if the horses selected were a tad more suitable. :rolleyes:

There are also some scarily ignorant people out there. I had a conversation with a guy I've known for a good few years, when he found out I rode, he said he and his wife were both good riders, "do you ride a lot" I asked "Oh yeah" he said "we went out for half a day last year in Portugal, and the year before in Spain we went on a beach" :eek:
 
It is sooo difficult to convey standards of riding in a conversation over the phone.

Having said that when we were looking most sellers were pleasently surprised by OH's riding (haven't a clue what they thought of mine!) I think after he had told them 37 times that he is a nervous rider and this would be our first horse they had a few big fat alarm bells sounding. Then probably after he had to be coaxed into putting his hat on and "just having a sit" they must have thought he was a complete numpty. Luckily he is actually a pretty decent rider who without fail got on and rode really nicely. So we got lots of surprised comments from owners saying "actually he rides really well" and "she's going really well for him", or "hasn't he got a lovely seat".

I was quite surprised by the standard of riding of some sellers actually, especially some of the ones who were "in the business", not all but one or two.
 
NeilM said:
There are also some scarily ignorant people out there. I had a conversation with a guy I've known for a good few years, when he found out I rode, he said he and his wife were both good riders, "do you ride a lot" I asked "Oh yeah" he said "we went out for half a day last year in Portugal, and the year before in Spain we went on a beach" :eek:
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Thing is from his point of view, he sees himself as a good rider because how would he know differently, if all he ever does is go out on presumably horses that take care of their riders and follow the horse in front? It's not until you have ridden lots of horses, and been tested and sometimes failed the test that you start to get an idea of your limitations. If you are in the position of having ridden horses that do half the work for you, and you haven't had the instruction that allows you to get an idea of what you should be aiming for, but instead lessons that do a walk, a bouncy trot, then the pony canters once round the school on autopilot, how do you learn that there's more to it than point and kick?

For example, my sister has cantered on a beach, because I took her on a holiday where they got her going in the school, then took her out on this fab pony that took excellent care of her. She had a blast, but if that pony hadn't been such a kindly and happy soul she wouldn't have been cantering out in the open. She knows that, because she's my sister and so she gets a different point of view from me - but with nobody horsey in the family she could easily be led to think that she's a much better rider than she is.
 
I actually ride badly when I try horses out. I suddenly 'forget' how to sit, and my old habit of the foetal position creeps in when the heels creep up, the knees start gripping and I tilt forwards- things I dont do when I'm schooling my own and clients horses... I dont know what it is- I think it's because I know in that split second I'm being judged!
 
In defence of buyers too - it's not that easy to get on with a new horse straight away, and it's especially difficult if you're used to riding your own, your riding style may not be very 'adaptable'!

I've been riding a friend's advanced horse lately and although it's taken a while, things are starting to improve :p I got off him, having spent an hour doing flying changes, leg yield, half passes and medium canters, straight on to a 5 year old I was trying out to buy. I couldn't get the thing into canter :p I lost my stirrups, his head was up in the air and I rode like a sack of s**t! If you'd never seen me ride before, you'd have thought I was atrocious! But after 20 mins or so, it started to come together and he was going nicely, and seems a really promising horse, it just takes a while to find the buttons...
 
I see this often in my business. There are many people who have a highly inflated idea of how good a rider they are however there are also people who can ride but are used to only riding the same horse for many years. Normally you can tell who can ride (but can't ride the sales horse for whatever reason). Sometimes it's worth them coming back for a second viewing in this case. I ride a huge variety and types of horses so most of them feel the same to me (to an extent) so I don't have any trouble with them. Riding school riders are in a different category altogether (no disrespect meant) as riding school horses can't really be compared to privately owned horses.
 
Thank you for all your responses, some good advice and at least it seems I am not just losing the plot or being overly fussy about my horse!!

I did not know riding schools used the classification system of novice/inter/adv this way either. It seems people are either over confident & over rating their ability or really nervous and under confident.

I do want this mare to have a lovely home, of course I do, but also I have to sell her so I am very honest & realistic about her went talking to potential buyers. I was surprised how many people rode by socking her in the teeth & kicking all around the school!

The saddest part is that some, and I do mean only some, come with their 'trainer/instructor' or worse perhaps is the pushy Mother, who genuinely think their pupil/child is a great rider and its the horse who is at fault.

Well am off to completely review my advert and re-think!! LOL
 
I tried a couple of horses before I bought Nadia. One sounded perfect, was advertised for anyones ride but when I tried her felt that I couldn't trust her and a bit forward going for my experience at the time. Now she's probably have been perfect for me.
Another one I tried was lovely but had to use too much leg and had sweet itch but the owner changed the advert in the winter when it had cleared up.
 
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