Shooting peeps - chasing phessies......advice please

[Slinkyunicorn]

Ok as you know I live on a farm which is part of a shooting estate. The shoot has a couple of cover strips on the farm and when the phessies are out (from chicks) and during the shooting season I keep the dogs - well Max - away from the cover strips BUT we are allowed to walk around the other fields and of course he does find the odd phessie in the hedges etc which he chases and on occaisions catches

Anyhoo today I got told off by the new farm manager for letting Max catch/kill a phessie on one of the fields (away from the cover strip - just luck) Of course afterwards I thought of all the things I should have said to him instead of getting a lecture He knows nothing of the long history that the village and surrounds has with the Shoot culminating in the gamekeeper having his guns taken off him last year for threatening to shoot a villager and his dogs

Now am I wrong to be walking my dogs off the lead with the chance of finding a random phessie?

I should add I am tenant of the Estate and as I live on the farm I have the farmers permission to walk around the fields avoiding the cover strips during the season.

 

[gunnergundog]

IMO finding phezzies is okay, so long as you don't chase them off the estate and instead drive them back 'home'....pegging them is NOT acceptable! You are impacting on the sport that the farm manager/keeper is able to provide....hence, him giving you a ticking off!

Sooo....to answer your question, you are not wrong to be walking your dog(s) off lead so long as you have control over them....ie you can stop them pegging and also, ideally, chasing.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

IMO finding phezzies is okay, so long as you don't chase them off the estate and instead drive them back 'home'....pegging them is NOT acceptable! You are impacting on the sport that the farm manager/keeper is able to provide....hence, him giving you a ticking off!

Sooo....to answer your question, you are not wrong to be walking your dog(s) off lead so long as you have control over them....ie you can stop them pegging and also, ideally, chasing.

He is the farm manager - nothing to do with the shoot who are talso tenants on te Estate and I appreciate he is doing what he considers his job but there has been years of aggro with the gamekeeper which he knows nothing about FWIW I have been here for 10 years and the gamekeeper sees me walking my dogs all the time and he has NEVER said anything to me

By pegging I assume you mean catching them?

 

[gunnergundog]

Regardless of any local 'shannanigans', it is NOT deemed etiquette to allow your dog to peg/catch/kill. Full stop.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but that is fact.

 

[Vizslak]

The flush of the odd opportune phessie would be acceptable to me and I let my dogs do this around here on other peoples land. I would feel very cross with myself if they caught and killed one, they arent mine to catch and kill they belong to someone else, its not the same as catching a wild rabbit, ie wild and vermin, its akin to letting your dog have someones sheep in my mind.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I read somewhere that it costs £8 or £9 to produce a pheasant for a shoot because of natural wastage and pheasants leaving the grounds where they were released.

If it was free range hens you wouldnt dream of allowing your dogs to chase or kill them, they all come under the heading of livestock and should be treated accordingly.

You could also be done for poaching and possibley your dog impounded or worse.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......Now am I wrong to be walking my dogs off the lead with the chance of finding a random phessie?

I'm sorry Slinky, but YES you are very wrong. You have to understand that game shooting is an expensive business, and a business with a very small profit margin.

Perhaps you should also consider the Keeper. He may well be a young man, with a family to support and reliant upon the income which he works very hard for. He is expected to produce results, and the disturbance to game by thoughtless dog walkers, may well prove to be a tipping point.

When many thousands of "phessies", as you've described them, are reared and released, then the loss of the odd one, is of little consequence. What really does matter, is the disturbance factor, and intruding upon the peaceful existence of game, is a thoughtless act, in my view.

Dogs which are allowed to disturb game are a menace, as are their owners. I'm sorry if I've been a bit hard on you, but I've hurt you no more than you've hurt the poor sod who has the responsibility of producing a days shooting!

Alec.

 

[CorvusCorax]

We walk through a shoot and I keep mine on a lead, Captain Slow would not have a mission of catching one but I used to help my ex work on a shoot as an underkeeper, my cousin is married to a former head keeper at a big estate in Scotland and I know how much work goes into it so I would err on the side of caution x
They're bordering on being suicidal enough without jumping into the mouths of passing dogs

 

[CAYLA]

There are loads in our farmers fields (no shoot in vacinity) the pointer flushes them out with pancake in hot persuit but never kills them, once he finds one he is happy at that and goes off to find the next once that one has flown, the other dogs don't give a hoot they are more interested in playing.
I would be more concerned if bud began to kill them and I would possibly change walks or keep him on the lead.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

No problem Alec

The gamekeeper lives less than a mile away an unfortunatley due to his actions and lack of consideration for others who live and pay to use the estate people have very little sympathy or understanding from him - last winter in the snow he didn't feed the pheasants at all and then was surprised when they left

He and the shoot constantly turn up to shoot on the farm unannounced even though they are asked repeatedly to give at least 24 hours notice as the livery yard is also being run as a business - which is repeatedly ignored. The last time, a week ago, resulted in 4 lame horses - one needed the vet due to a huge hole in the shoulder after it fell over in the field after the beaters went through. We never get so much as an apology - I have lost count of the number I lessons I have rearranged only for the shoot to turn up in the middle of it (say at 2 in the afternoon when they have said they will be there at 10) and start shooting - I don't get my £30 back

So all in all my dog catching one of his pheasants half a mile or so away from his cover strips doesn't bother me that much I am sorry to say

If they want courtesy and consideration maybe they should extend the same to others around them who are also trying to run a business

 

[Vizslak]

2 wrongs doesnt make a right Slinks

 

[Alec Swan]

No problem Alec

The gamekeeper lives less than a mile away an unfortunatley due to his actions and lack of consideration for others who live and pay to use the estate people have very little sympathy or understanding from him - last winter in the snow he didn't feed the pheasants at all and then was surprised when they left

He and the shoot constantly turn up to shoot on the farm unannounced even though they are asked repeatedly to give at least 24 hours notice as the livery yard is also being run as a business - which is repeatedly ignored. The last time, a week ago, resulted in 4 lame horses - one needed the vet due to a huge hole in the shoulder after it fell over in the field after the beaters went through. We never get so much as an apology - I have lost count of the number I lessons I have rearranged only for the shoot to turn up in the middle of it (say at 2 in the afternoon when they have said they will be there at 10) and start shooting - I don't get my £30 back

So all in all my dog catching one of his pheasants half a mile or so away from his cover strips doesn't bother me that much I am sorry to say

If they want courtesy and consideration maybe they should extend the same to others around them who are also trying to run a business

Ah, I thought that there may be more to this, than you originally stated!! Your opening post gave not a clue as to your discontent!!

Alec.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

2 wrongs doesnt make a right Slinks

Tell that to the livery with the £500 vets bill - be so 'understanding' then would you?

 

[Alec Swan]

Tell that to the livery with the £500 vets bill - be so 'understanding' then would you?

I take it that your opening post, offered in an apparently light hearted fashion was simply a taster. That's not entirely fair, in my view. Had you opened with your last relevant post, then I may well have had some sympathy for you.

I spent 10 years working as a 'keeper, and on an estate with a serious TB stud. We shot the woods around the paddocks, and in complete harmony with the stud manager. It can be done.

Alec.

 

[CorvusCorax]

SU, you asked a question regarding the snaffling of pheasants, you've been given a few answers, but they don't seem to be the right one?
I have not had the most pleasant experiences with pheasant shoots in the past, but I still don't want my dogs killing them x
If you want a rant about the shoot, rant about the shoot, but you framed it as a question about the rights and wrongs of the dogs catching and killing pheasants

 

[Vizslak]

Tell that to the livery with the £500 vets bill - be so 'understanding' then would you?

That doesnt have anything to do with the original question though in the OP. I am not saying the gamekeeper isnt an a hole but the original q was is it acceptable to catch his pheasants, the answer was no. If you feel its fine cos he's a nobber than thats up to you but that wasnt the question put to us!

 

[Chestnuttymare]

I am on a shooting estate also. My dobie will flush a pheasant but once they are up she isn't interested, it's the tracking it that interests her. I do avoid where the majority of the birds hang out and walk over in the forestry mostly just in case there is a disaster.
I see the work that has gone into raising the birds and the gamekeeper out in all weathers feeding them so the last thing I want is my dog grabbing one and doing it damage.
I have respect for him and his stock but sounds like your situation is very different from mine. Just today I was out with my mare up a track just by the yard letting her graze a bit when the shoot came up into the field beside me. The gamey waved that he had seen me and then the beaters raised a few birds and i thought oh heck here we go. Nobody fired though, i was so relieved. I headed smartly back to the yard and he waved again when he saw me moving off and they waited til I got back onto the yard til they started firing. I was so grateful. Just thinking about it now I will drop a bottle of wine off to him tomorrow.
I suppose it is just knowing that we all have to share the place and doing it as amicably as possible.