Short girths and hoiked up bits?

cptrayes

cptrayes

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Does anyone else have a problem with some of the current fashions in competition horses?

My first bugbear is the bit hoiked so far up the horse's face that it would be very difficult to get the bridle on without loosening it first. My friend's trainer did it to her horse (she changed it back the next day) but I see it a lot in photos and in the flesh. It makes me wince to see the poor creatures with their mouths being stretched like that.

The second one is dressage girths so short that there is a foot or so of horse's side being squeezed between two hard girth straps. Surely that can't be comfortable for the horse? I understand about not having the buckle at the point of the elbow, but I girth with the buckle well above, not below. Where did this habit come from? Did someone like Kyra Kirklund forget her girth one day and use one off her daughter's* pony that she happened to have in the lorry? Then she won, and everyone thought that they should copy the girth and they would do better dressage too??

Is it me? Or do other people think there's any problem??






*it's not relevant whether she has a daughter or not, it's just an imaginary scenario.
 
Yes, I agree with you there's a problem. (Someone had to answer you).
Hoiked bits is my real bugbear, especially if the bit is hoiked up and then a flash is strapped on tightly so that... oh yuck, it's just horrible. When I bit a horse I look in their mouth and see where the bit sits comfortably and where they can hold it comfortably. That tends to mean that they have no wrinkles in the corners of their lips, let alone having their mouth stretched so that over time it changes shape by being stretched.
You know what's nice about horses that are started and ridden bitless? Their mouths stay small the way they were when they were born. My Arab mare was never bitted and her mouth stayed little and neat. (Sadly she had to retire young, but it would have stayed that way).
The problem is that conventional wisdom about bitting is so entrenched that many people would say that their horses bits are perfectly fitted and mine is too low.
I was taught that a dressage girth shouldn't come more than about 2" below the saddle skirt, and that the movement of the front legs needed to be observed to check that there was no interference.
 
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When doing my exams I was told that a correctly fitting bit makes a horse looks like he/ she is smiling. This is when I protested and said no this is too high up and to me a correctky fitting but and a comfortable horse has the bit a few cms lower than this.
 
I was allways led to believe you should have two wrinkles on mouth either side of the bit. However my mare seems more comfy with barely one wrinkle...
 
We're always told at Pony Club there should be two tiny wrinkles at the corners of the mouth, but I've always thought that's a little too high. The thing is, I agree that it's horrid to see the bit hoiked up and everything, but it's just as bad to have it too low and clanking on their teeth! We get this all the time at the yard and it drives me mad :/
 
Kokopelli said:
When doing my exams I was told that a correctly fitting bit makes a horse looks like he/ she is smiling. This is when I protested and said no this is too high up and to me a correctky fitting but and a comfortable horse has the bit a few cms lower than this.
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QR
When I was taught we were told they should be smiling not killing themselves laughing1
FDC
 
You can't judge correctly by going on the wrinkles, all horses are different and will differ between breeds, some have fleshier mouths for example, therefore the bit will in some cases need to sit higher up, suppose ideally people are best checking this with their EDT to make sure their chosen bit is in the right place, regardless of what looks like from the outside or what other people tell you.
 
I can't abide bits too high in the horses mouth. Combined with an overtight noseband and flash it does seem de rigeur.

I generally have bits a little lower than standard. If the cheekpieces bulge overly when the bit is raised by the reins then I would say it's too low. Don't want the bit banging around in the mouth either.
 
Supposed to be one wrinkle.... but one wrinkle to one horse may be two to another so best just check it properly by looking in the mouth surely so it's sitting properly in the bit seat and curbs should never be too loose.

Girths too tight = unbalanced rider. If you can ride bareback and stay upright, why do you need saddle to embed itself into the back before you can ride with a saddle?
 
Tight nosebands and tight girls make me sad - looks like the horse is squeezed into a sausage!

... High bits and not pleasant, and gags with single reins on the bottom "bubble" seem to be quite in vogue :(. Martingales that are incorrectly fitted also seem to be commplace these days.
 
I agree about the girths, a longer one must surely be more comfortable.

I'm more wary about the bits though, if you look at George you would think his bit is too high and his bridle is tight too put on, but put it down just one hole and it is very noticeably banging on his teeth both from the ground and when riding. Obviously every horse is different, but i guess it is just about making sure the horse is comfortable.
 
I think for the bit to mean something in a mouth that remains as sensitive as it should be, then there should ideally be no stretching of the corners. Although I can understand that we need to be careful about banging the teeth. I want to lift my rein and it to be easily felt and mean something. I don't want to desensitise the mouth by constantly putting pressure on it. Unconventional I know. :-)
 
tallyho! said:
Girths too tight = unbalanced rider. If you can ride bareback and stay upright, why do you need saddle to embed itself into the back before you can ride with a saddle?
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Totally agree, Elizabeth did a whole jumping lesson with her girth not tightened properly, her own silly fault;too busy gossiping. She never slipped. But then when I were a lass we were taught to balance, it seems to be a dying art, I get fed up with seeing people hanging off their horses mouth or clinging on with their legs. So I think any rider should be able to ride without it tightened, in an ideal world anway.

FDC
 
I was out on a hack once and stopped to introduce myself to a neighbour. He put my horse's bit higher in his mouth - just like that, without asking or anything. I told him to put it back where it was!

I don't like wrinkles either. I wouldn't want to have my mouth wrinkled for hours at a time. The only time I'd do it is if otherwise the bit was clanking on the tushes unless you put it higher.

And I am forever being told by people that I have my girth too loose, as well, so it seems as if we all agree! There was some famous dressage rider/trainer, a German, who was once told his girth was too loose. He took the girth off completely and continued to ride advanced movements on the horse. Anyone remember who he was?
 
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I've heard that too, but can't remember who it was. I am paranoid when other people ride my horses (there's one they aren't allowed to ride, but two that the right people can). I'm hovering in the background making sure they don't hoick the girths up tight or fiddle with the height of the bit. Yes, I'm a bit protective, sad eh?
I might get shot for this, but to me, if the bit is correctly placed, it doesn't matter if the cheek piece bulges a bit when I take the rein up, because I don't constantly hold the reins in a "contact" and therefore when the horse has reacted to the rein, it is relaxed and returns to neutral.
 
cptrayes said:
here was some famous dressage rider/trainer, a German, who was once told his girth was too loose. He took the girth off completely and continued to ride advanced movements on the horse. Anyone remember who he was?
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I've heard this quoted before about Nuno Oliveira.
 
I'm a member of the 'HATE flash/crank/drop nosebands and too-high bits' clique!:p

I leave Merlin's bit low enough not to cause any wrinkles, and he lifts it up and carries it where he wants. No problems.

I think the OP is right; a lot of things are done simply because everyone else does it. I'm sure 99% of people who use flashes have never had a problem with their horse opening it's mouth, they just use them automatically because that's what they've always used.
 
Someone once explained to me that they used a flash noseband because their horse was more comfortable in it.

I think what they meant was that they used a flash noseband because their horse was unable to express his DIScomfort in it and therefore they didn't have to worry about it???

I have a little scenario running in my head about the things you see people do and how often you see them start because one famous person once did it and the horse won something big. That's why I imagine that a dressage world champion once forgot her girth and used a pony one.

The current fashion (have you noticed??) for dressage horses to have their tails so long that they are hanging in the dirt is another - someone's groom was off sick for a couple of months and the scissors were blunt when the rider came to trim it once before going out and everyone else copied in case it helped their horse win.

What others do you reckon?
 
I have a little scenario running in my head about the things you see people do and how often you see them start because one famous person once did it and the horse won something big. That's why I imagine that a dressage world champion once forgot her girth and used a pony one.

The current fashion (have you noticed??) for dressage horses to have their tails so long that they are hanging in the dirt is another - someone's groom was off sick for a couple of months and the scissors were blunt when the rider came to trim it once before going out and everyone else copied in case it helped their horse win.

What others do you reckon?

Eddie Macken springs to mind when he rode Boomerang in that big German Hackamore, then everyone had one, except me.
 
Yes! And now people are using Mikmars - and I have to hold my hands up here, I have my hunter in one and I think it's wonderful !! I'd never have known about it if I hadn't seen it on a showjumper in H&H :)
 
mine has her bit reasonably high as she is a git for getting tongue over it - i wont put a flash on though and she has a loose noseband.

Dressage girth i always have it 1-2" below the saddle flap. I bought my horse with her saddle and 24" girth - i immediately put her in one that fitted and it was a 28"
I have always been told that if a horse catches its elbows on a buckle it can take the horse down, so i always have it longer.
 
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