Should a barefoot/unshod horse have their frogs touched at all during a trim?

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Mongoose11

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My mare has had her fronts off for about 10 weeks and despite the usual chips around the edge and occassional footiness over hard ground/stones she has been ok and happy to go out.

When the farrier came I remembered that I was told (by a Hoofy guru) that I was not to let the farrier touch her frogs but he did - he did trim them and I regret letting him as they had grown. Should I definitely not let him next time. I just didn't have the balls to tell him not to (stupid isn't it - my horse, my rules) but he had already taken the mick when I told him about the BT and he said 'soon enough you'll be telling me how to do it!' :eek:

So, should he leave them if they have nothing hanging off etc? How should I approach it with him? He will make me feel like a right doofus!
 
Timming off pockets which are trapping infection is ok, but you don't want anyone chiselling away on the frogs. Your horse needs to bear weight on the frogs now - you need as much tissue on the bottom of the foot as possible in between the ground and the pedal bone.
 
If theres no big flaps or anything like that, and they are healthy, there is absolutely no reason to interfere with the frog of a hoof of a horse with no shoes, whether 'barefoot' or just 'a horse with no shoes'.

It may be that he is not happy to go along with that. If that's the case, I would find another farrier (or a good barefoot trimmer).

Even if he disagrees with everything to do with the 'barefoot approach', to 'take the mick' to me is unacceptable, since he should be showing you the superiority of his approach with reasoned discussion and convincing argument.
 
I will be telling my farrier exactly the same thing when he next comes! He takes off frog and sole and I end up with a footy horse (even the shod feet). I took advice from various people and they all said to leave the sole and non-loose frog alone.
 
If you get the chance buy/borrow/watch Pete Ramey's dvd Under the Horse it will furnish you with invaluable knowledge about your horses hooves and what should and shouldnt be trimmed and why, the internal structures, sole depth, frogs, collateral grooves etc etc its an eye opener....

You will then be better prepared to make an informed choice about hoof trimming for your horse!
 
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Frogs and sole should be left well alone.... flaps can be scrubbed under to prevent thrush and will very quickly grow out anyway.

If your farrier is unwilling to trim as requested, I'd find a new one... or a barefoot trimmer who understands the re reasons behind the way you trim.
 
TBH I don't think it does any harm to cut off any thin loose raggy bits .
The farrier I had would cut huge chunks off for no good reason he could not even tell me why he did it ,he just did.
 
Oh my goodness Billie1007- we must be very alike! This Tuesday I had the farrier due and have spent alot of time reading about callousing soles and frog etc. My horses frogs are pretty little anyway so thought I must tell him not to touch his frogs.

I got really wound up about it thinking he'd be abit miffed thinking I was telling him how to do his job.

Ended up blurting out some mangled mess about not touching frogs inbetween apologising if I seemed rude... bit embarrassing! He just looked at me like I was abit mad (pretty accurate really) and told me the frogs were fine as they were and didn't need touching...

Felt abit of a tit but then I tried to reason that farriers are probabely used to wierd horse women and I shouldn't be a soft arse!
 
Yes, they should take off flappy bits but that is ALL!

When I asked my farrier why he had just sliced off my horses frog he said "because it's ready"....

Ready for what????????
 
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Farriers are taught to trim frogs or they will over grow and cause pressure to the internal structures. This is something even the biggest 'barefoot gurus' used to do in their shoeing days.

It's fair to trim frogs when the horse is shod as the horse is unable to exfoliate the frog themselves as it may become raggedy and house pockets of infection.

However, when the horse is barefoot, the frog becomes part of the weight bearing apparatus along with the wall, heels and sole.
As such, the frog becomes like Schwarzenegger and beefs up to become tough and leathery. It doesn't overgrow - it packs down and becomes more and more dense and strong.

When you pare it down with a hoof knife, you are slicing away all that 'muscle' and going back to the immature material that isn't ready to weight bear.

I would only ever consider removing a flap that was disconnected anyway and ready to come off - or to just to cut a closed hole open to the air. I would certainly never advocate cutting chunks off, even if it was shedding - it will take care of itself.

Shod print - loading on the wall alone.

hoofshodsnow.jpg


Barefoot print - loading on the wall, heel, sole and frog.

baresnow.jpg
 
just tell him she was a bit footy after the last trim so please only remove loose frog from her frogs but do not trim them as she needs them as she has no shoes, if he doesnt like that tough, if he doesnt do what you ask, sack him.
 
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