Should grass-roots event riders be allowed stopwatches?

S

skybluepinko

Member
Joined
22 August 2010
Messages
26
Visit site
I noticed that lots of the riders at the Grass-roots championships were penalised for going too fast - up to 22 time-faults. Does anyone else think riders should be allowed to wear stopwatches at that level to stop them doing all they can to be under the optimum? Or was the time just very lenient?!
 
I don't believe there is any rule that forbids them to have them. In fact it is a good idea.

Also use them in training over a set distance with a vehicle alongside to help the rider to judge the speed.

I strongly believe in penalising excess speed - inexperienced riders/horses are a danger to themselves when going too fast.
 
I was judging the Grass Roots and did not see anyone going too fast - I was very surprised by the amount of too fast penalties being handed out. I feel the course was not measured correctly and I feel sorry for those who did get the penalties. I do not agree with stop watches being used as riders need to get a feel for the correct speed - they are not allowed until Novice. They are a useful training aid.
 
What about allowing riders to wear stopwatches at the lower levels, but having minute markers on the course so they can learn to judge pace under competitive circumstances?
 
Haven't evented for a few years but you used not to be allowed to wear a stopwatch below Novice.

IMO the lower levels shouldn't be focussed on getting a time....they should concentrate on rhythm, presentation, style and balance. In other words they should ride at a pace to match their experience level and when they are getting consistant clears then learn to FEEL what is the correct pace by galloping upsides someone with a stopwatch at home.

There are plenty of ways of improving your time at the lower levels without upping the speed; most don't ride away from their fences positively enough anyway. Also, riding tighter lines helps dramatically. Indeed, going slower can mean a faster time, as less time is then spent setting a horse up or getting it back before a fence........something which breaks the rhythm. Soooo..........back to what I suggested initially....focus on presentation, balance, rhythm.
 
I don't understand why stop watches aren't allowed at lower levels, I would have thought stop watches along with harsh penelties for coming in under the time (I like the idea of the mile markers suggested above too) would 'encorage' people to aim for a good smooth, balanced and safe round rather than riding like their arse is on fire!

I would have thought that given those at lower levels are more likely to be less experienced then the more that can be done to ensure safe steady rounds while giving confidence and experience to ride safely at the higher levels would be a good thing?

(a focus on presentation, balance and ability (perfect words gunnergundog!) would be fantastic at SJ too - and would make for a much better learning experience at the lower heights rather than the 'he who dares, wins' type of approach so often seen!).
 
I don't think people should have stopwatches at the lower levels and quite rightly they aren't allowed.

People at this level shouldn't be riding to the watch, but to how the horse feels underneath them and then as you do more events you feel how quickly you should be going.

I do agree though, that the Grassroots PN course seems to have been measured quite leniently- but on the other hand, lots and lots of riders got around in the optimum time and only a handful got double figure time faults for too fast.
 
millitiger said:
People at this level shouldn't be riding to the watch, but to how the horse feels underneath them and then as you do more events you feel how quickly you should be going.
Click to expand...

Although that is the aim, do you think it actually happens? Even if you 'should' listen to your horse, comp nerves and pressure must get the better of some people, particularly those newer to the sport? Just pondering!
 
Re FEEL - isn't the whole issue that the less experienced riders can't learn the "magic feel" unless they are taught, which probably means using a watch? The average grassroots rider probably does only 10 events a year, so it will take years of trial and error to "feel" the right pace, given the varying terrains at different events. Isn't a watch a good guide? Then, if they FEEL their horse is struggling to go the pace required they can accept they'll get time-faults. But at least they'll know the pace they are aiming for rather than having to go flat-out in hope.

Incidentally, I don't think the grassroots riders were going flat-out by the sounds of things. They are just used to moving their horses on between fences - which on a flattish, firm, galloping, leniently-measured track = too-fast time-faults.
 
ThePony said:
Although that is the aim, do you think it actually happens? Even if you 'should' listen to your horse, comp nerves and pressure must get the better of some people, particularly those newer to the sport? Just pondering!
Click to expand...

Well you will learn what feels right quite quickly if you keep getting time faults! ;)

If you add all of the things you say above- comp nerves, pressure, worry about certain fences and then ON TOP OF THAT you give someone a watch and tell them they must be at a certain point on the course by a certain time wouldn't that add more pressure?

y first BE event I got over 30 time penalties for going too slowly- and I felt we were going plenty fast enough! :)

6 events later we had moved up a level, had an affiliated win and were making the time very easily... and I don't regret going so slowly to start with and am glad I had no watch to add pressure and make me feel I had to go faster.

skybluepinko said:
Re FEEL - isn't the whole issue that the less experienced riders can't learn the "magic feel" unless they are taught, which probably means using a watch? The average grassroots rider probably does only 10 events a year, so it will take years of trial and error to "feel" the right pace, given the varying terrains at different events. Isn't a watch a good guide? Then, if they FEEL their horse is struggling to go the pace required they can accept they'll get time-faults. But at least they'll know the pace they are aiming for rather than having to go flat-out in hope.

Incidentally, I don't think the grassroots riders were going flat-out by the sounds of things. They are just used to moving their horses on between fences - which on a flattish, firm, galloping, leniently-measured track = too-fast time-faults.
Click to expand...

But will most riders accept time penalties if they have a watch and know they are going to be over the time or are most going to press on regardless of how the horse feels in the hope that make the time.
Perhaps I am cynical but I think the majority will fall into the latter category.

I do about 6 or 7 events a year at most, and as above had worked out timings in my first season.

I am now on another horse (a green youngster) who is gradually getting more confident and faster and the worst thing possible for her would be for me to be tempted to ride to minute markers and a watch.
I am happy at the moment to lose placings and rosettes for her future development but a lot of people wouldn't be and wouldn't realise their horse isn't coping.

If you don't have feel to start with, chasing a stop watch imo just encourages worse riding as people will be tempted to go faster than they/their horse are ready for.
 
Of course they should be allowed stop watches. Do you allow a learner to drive a car without a speedo ?

Here in France my daughter was eventing at 10 years old the equivalent of BE80 with a stop watch, with timed minute markers. Today at sixteen she needs it less and less as the training with a watch has taught her where the speed problems were, improving her link between the time and how she is riding.
 
I don't think that people should chase the time at BE90 and BE100- it's up to you to prep at home.

Al used to go out on hacks, having measured the length of fields, and practise timing herself cantering around. She could then see that she'd been going too fast/ too slow and could adjust accordingly. This is prep to do at home, so when she went out eventing she rarely ever picked up time penalties. In fact, the only time she did was when she got lost in the fencing having taken the wrong exit after a fence, and on her first BE100 after a few PC Opens (BE Novice height and speed) where she forgot to slow down accordingly and got 14 penalties for going too fast!

If you can't be bothered to do your prep at home or don't learn from your mistakes by going a bit fast/ slow occasionally then more fool you... The idea of a 10yo being taught to follow a clock rather than how her pony feels is a bit scary. At 12, Al was doing 1.10m tracks without a clock and ignoring her time penalties as she was going at the speed her pony felt most comfortable. The temptation to chase the minute markers would be too great for most people doing 80cm!
 
Lolo said:
I don't think that people should chase the time at BE90 and BE100- it's up to you to prep at home.
... The idea of a 10yo being taught to follow a clock rather than how her pony feels is a bit scary. At 12, Al was doing 1.10m tracks without a clock and ignoring her time penalties as she was going at the speed her pony felt most comfortable. The temptation to chase the minute markers would be too great for most people doing 80cm!
Click to expand...

Completely disagree, no amount of field work will prepare you for the real conditions on the day. You need to learn how to adapt and react to the situation as it unfolds.

BTW in France you need to have passed practical exams (something that appears lacking in the UK) before you are allowed anywhere near a jumping or cross country course. Each level requires different levels of technical competence So a 10 year controlling a pony over a 80cm XC with a stop watch is really quite safe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top