should i charge them or not?

samsaccount

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<u> i have posted this on CR and NL, as i need as much help as possible so i have just copied and pasted my previous posts sorry it is so long, i am not sure if i should charge my livery because of what i have done for her over the past two days, or is it unfair? thanks </u>

i am so annoyed right now!!
a couple keep their horse with me on diy livery.
the girl is due to give birth any time soon, i sent them a letter offering to help out due to the baby so close to arriving and they told me (rather rudley) not to help. i looked after her over xmas because they didn't want to come up over xmas because they would have famlily over (they live in walking distance of the yard) i was away over xmas meaning i had to get my mum to drive me home to sort the horses out then drive back to my family then back home so i was home to sort them out in the morning (whilst they were at home and in walking distance) and yesteday i went to sort my boy out at 9am and her horse was still stabled at 2pm (and had run out of food and water) and i still had not heard from them, so i have mucked her out, turned out, fed etc for two days and no-one has come up or even spoken to me! i have tried to contact them but no luck. what should i do? should i charge them for what i have done? any advice would be great thanks.

but i am just extreamly annoyed that she didn't even come as a second though to them, granted they will have things going on, especially if the baby has come, but is a text/call too much to ask for? but surely the welfare for their horse, a live animal should also be a priotiry (sp?)???


I offered to help because i KNEW this was going to happen so i am not suprsied but i am suprised it has been two days and i have not had contact with them (i have been unable to get in touch with them)
I told them in the letter i sent them saying if i did anything i would expect payment, kind of thought that charging them (and them not been happy about it) may make them take charge of their own horse in future.

Just heard she has had her baby, and her husband came up last night. I was on the yard at 8ish (my boy was been a little swine) so what time was he thinking of feeding her? But he came up and never came in to speak to me, and he hasnt been up today either. To know this i have had to ring her mum who lives downsouth to ring him and then ring me back!!!! What if something had happend with the horse? But he is apparently now just going to turn her out next time he comes up, the poor horse has a routein for two weeks, then is left in the field for a week, then brought in for a few days, then turned out full stop again. Maybe it is me but i cannot stand a mess in a routein so often like that

well done if you got to the end, sorry if it made no sence like i said i c&amp;p my messages
 

ThomasTank

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I understand you are feeling infuriated but is this her first baby? I expect so and if it is then they will probably be in a state of shock and she will be awash with hormones. Oersonally, I would leave it and offer to look after the horse until they are back on this planet. I am sure when she is back to normal she will be grateful for what you have done and you can both talk about it then. If it were me I would send a bunch of flowers and congrats on their new arrival and quietly look after the horse. money isnt everything, but thats me im afraid.
 

samsaccount

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Well i am yet to be thanked for looking after her horse over christmas, but they just don't exactly seem 100% responsible for her, after all they coudln't be bothered to come up over xmas, i had to, i have not had anything said to me concerning their horse now. So due to the fact i have not been thanked for xmas (4 days i looked after her for) so i am slightly pesimistic (sp?) that i am not going to be thanked now. I agree money is not everything but it is taking up alot of my time having a second horse and i feel that i am been walked over because i don't get any thanks for it or anything
 

amandaco2

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you could try to charge them but if they refused to pay i dotn see what you could do, unless you have an agreement and are running a taxed buisness.
i wouldnt be able to leave the horse in the state they are, i would be doing what you are doing.
but dont be taken advantage of.suggest they leave the horse turned out and pay you a small amount to check it ewach day, its better than being stuck in with no food or water!

ive been in this situation before at a private yard where the other livery was leaving the horses in permenantly and leaving them without food or water for half days and i mucked them out and fed/watered them.i told YO and she threw them off(only afdter they wrecked a field and didnt keep the place tidy though)
 

samsaccount

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I only thought about charging them since a) it is taking up a lot more time than normal and b) because i don't think it will make a huge difference if i get an appology, maybe i am being very selfish but i am fed up with all of this.
 

ThomasTank

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I am just trying to see it from both sides. I would feel the way you do . Having a baby is a big thing and I dont expect the labour was 5 mins either. when I had my firs baby I couldnt walk for 4 weeks!! perhaps give it a couple more weeks and then pop round (flowers in hand?) . The man clearly doesnt knom how to communicate and knows he is wrong otherwise he would have seen you when he went to the yard. If things dont improve by feb then I would consider asking them to move. Only tring to help
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samsaccount

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I understand the whole baby thing so i am not annoyed at her, but like i said the husband had apparently come up to the yard the other night, yet never came to appologise or say i didn't have to look after her, he has done it before so i know he is perfectly capable of communicating. Maybe asking them to leave may be good for them, maybe going to another yard with set rules and everything may shock them nto the fact they have to come and see their horse every day if they want to keep it on diy, i don't know.
Thank you for trying to help
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ThomasTank

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I would leave it a while just in case it is a baby blip but if not then ask them to go !! I have looked after my friends horse since sept and they are 10 miles away. I have 1 child severley allergic to horses so I have to change and wash at yard etc ( other child loves them!!) I have no payment but lots of thanks and flowers at xmas from the horse. I know she will be looking after mine soon ( which was the original plan till she shattered her arm). Men are just sooo useless
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_Jazz_

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Hi Imperium
Well you saw this coming and hun, you have sought help and have been polite and helpful all the way through
This woman has neglected her responsibilities towards her horse, I will not accept being pregnant as an excuse(I can say this , I am a Mum), and if it were not for you this horse would be a welfare case.
I would be b***** annoyed at her and yes I would ask her to find another yard and yes I would charge her for your time -but don't hold your breath;-)-HER HORSE, HER RESPONSIBILITY, she needs to grow up. I'd force the issue with the husband as he appears to be the only point of contact.I sympathise with you, you have a right to feel fed up, I have been there and it still makes my blood boil.
Good Luck
Caz
x
 

Sehne

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Hi
I have followed this issue from the time you sent a letter. I think you have been perfectly reasonable. After all, she knew she was due to give birth and it was going to be hard. Had it been me I would have told you "If I'm not up by x time, please do my horse and you can assume I've gone into labour!" No one expects phonecalls as everything goes out the window I'm sure when a child is born. However I care too much for my animals not to have arrangements in place prior to this difficult time. Yet this is me - maybe not everyone thinks like this. I feel for your awkward situation you find yourself in. I too would be feeling the same way you do. You sound like the sort of person who would have looked after the horse as a favour for them had they been a little easier to deal with. I'm sure the whole situation would be completely different if there had been an unforseeable problem (which I gather there hasn't been), in which I am sure you would be there to help.
Its a difficult one to deal with. I would be tempted to talk to the husband if/when he comes up again. Don't let him get away with ignoring you. Smile, be polite and ask him what the situation is. I would state clearly how you feel (still smiling, lol). If, after this in a couple of weeks time there is no improvements, I would tell them how it is. This is obviously making you unhappy and it needs to be sorted somehow. However, its difficult for us to judge the situation over the internet and I appologise if I've missed something.
Sx
 

Salcey

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Poor you, I think you've been more than reasonable. If I were you I think I would do as someone above suggests, send a card congratulating them etc and just get on with keeping the horses in your routine. Maybe send a note saying this is was you will do. This gives them a chance to sort themselves out.
If you get the opportunity talk to them and try to work out their intentions then do (as calmly as poss). I have to say if they weren't coming up before I can't see that changing now a baby is on the scene.
If nothing has changed by mid/late January I would contact them and ask for the horse to be removed from your yard. I know you didn't want this to happen but surely its turned out to be a bigger headache now and if they haven't got themselves sorted by then you are going to be walked over indefinately.
Lots of luck!
 

samsaccount

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Hell everyone thank you for your replies i will certainly do the things suggested as they more or less all run along the same lines.

The husband came up this morning and turned the mare out without her headcollar on (she is bad to catch and he does normaly put it on) so i am assuming she is going to be left out from now on - as she was also not mucked out (which does not cause a problem - it is just me who would dislike this as that poor horse has been in one day out for several, in for several, out one, in again and now out again and as i said i don't like that that has happened, but that is just me and i will not air my problem with that to them as it is up to them) but this morning i said hi to him and congratulated him on his baby he said thanks and walked away, i called to him because i wanted to speak to him but i was at the other end of the stable and it is very windy so either ignormed me or didn't actually hear me.

So i guess my only option is just to speak to one of them if and when i next see them and just carry on as normal with my own lad.

But thank you all for helping
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jemima

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Not a nice situation to be in but just be a little wary. If the hubby is not absolutely gushing about the baby and it's their first one then it sounds to me as if something is not right. You'll feel absolutely awful if you force the issue and he then says "well I don't know if I'm on my head or my feet, baby's still in SCBU and we don't know whether it'll make it".

If the horse is now out then just make sure it's ok and has water and hay or whatever and keep it safe for them. If you've not heard any more in a week then phone them or write to them asking what their plans are.
 

Moomin_and_Holly

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If the couple have said that they do not want you to look after the horse then you must obey that however the law states that all animals (farm animals, horses or otherwise) should be checked at least once a day. So essentially she is breaking the law. If the horse is left without water for long periods of time and this becomes a recurrent problem I would suggest contacting the RSPCA.

I fully understand that have a baby a be physically debilitating and emotionally exausting but she cannot neglect her responsibilities as a horse owner and must make alternative arrangements.

With regards to charging them - they never requested your services so unfortunatly you won't have a leg to stand on (esp. as she asked you not to look after her horse).

Hope this is of some help!

Holly x
 

Sparklet

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I agree - you cant charge them for doing voluntary stuff for them unless they have asked you to. I do think you are a mug for doing it and by now I would have told them to sort their own horse. If they leave it for long periods with no food/water then I would contact the RSPCA.
 

samsaccount

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My mum told me that i shoudl have just left the horse, but in all honestly i could not live with my self knowing there is a horse in my stables a few meters away with no food or water, if i didn't fell like that then i would have left her. I guess you are right about the fact i cannot charge since they did not ask. I just think something has to be done, anything to knock some sence into them that they are horse owners and it regardless of your wife having a baby or not, a quick text does not take a lifetime, i don't agree with the fact that although they have more important things going on than no-one came to check her at all, it is damn right irrisponsible (not quite the same but i am sure if their horse had colic or was having a foal they would not leave their child in a house with no food or water for two days without checking it!!!)
 

Breezesbenefactor

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Do you have a contract with them? If not the answer is no and even if you did if there was no clause to state "in the event of" the answer would again be no. However, don't look at it like this you did a great thing by going out of your way to ensure the welfare of an animal irrespective of the benefit to yourself. My advice is to keep an eye on him just to see all is well too often we stand back to watch animals deteriorate so that authorities can then be involved. Keep up the good work.
 

wizzi901

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Id tell them to move yards! I would not want the problem of the horse not receiving proper care........tricky as at least you know its ok by being at yours, but why should you be lumbered?

As for babies, anything is possible, I managed with 2 horses on my own, when they are tiny its easier than when they are toddling about, they can sleep in the car or shove them under a jacket in a sling!!
 

samsaccount

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Well surley when they are so tiny providing they are warm enough can't a baby stay in a little car seat or a pram whilst a horse is mucked out, as the field is a no more than 8 paces from the stable and the trailer is just outside the door of the stable, i am hoping i am quite a while off having kids at the moment but i don't plan to bundle my horses off to someone when i have a child, unless i don't feel safe having the horse around the child.

I would have thought it is harder doing mucking out etc when 9 months preg (with a 10pound baby) than having the little baby asleep a few meters away from you, maybe it is just me who thinks that.....
 

Toby_Zaphod

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Charging them or not doesn't really seem to be the main thing here, although I appreciate that you don't want to work for nothing.

The important thing is the welfare of the horse &amp; this appears to be suffering due to the owners neglect. I appreciate they've got a baby, we've all gone through that, but the horse has to be looked after. I would definately speak to the husband next time he appears, tell him that the horse, in your view has not been correctly looked after for the past fortnight. Tell them the work you have done to look after the animal while they abandoned it &amp; that you are not prepared to continue. Then give him an ultimatum... They either come up each day to look after the horse properly or they can remove the horse from the yard &amp; find another livery.
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Sparklet

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You have a good heart imperium and they are taking advantage of that fact. Their having a new baby does not affect their responsibility for their horse and they should have made other arrangements if they were unable to carry out their obligations.

You need to write to them to outline what you expect....horse turned out by a certain time, brought in by a certain time and not left without hay and water while stabled.

Include in the letter that you are prepared to do the work if they contact you in advance but will charge for your services. Also inform them that if they have not turned up at the stable to see to the horse by the time specified you will assume responsibility for the task by default and will charge for it.

Write into your contract worming arrangements etc and make sure you have actions and consequences written up if they dont do as you ask. Get someone legal to read it to make sure you have covered everything and get them to sign it.
 

esports

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I think you should charge them from a certain date TBA. People do tend to take advantage and your livery certainly is doing so. Its a load of rubbish using the new baby as an excuse and yes, parents can leave a little baby in a car seat snug as a bug while they muck out, i bet many parents have done so if need be. They arent the only horse people in the world to have a baby and a horse, xmas is over and its about time they do own up to their responsiblities, people like this will never learn if they always have a mug to fall back on. Look after your own inerests for a change, this has gone on long enough.

Thats my opinion on using the baby as an excuse but.... I must admit i think half of it should be you taking the blame for allowing this to go on. You should have stood your ground from day one or learnt a lesson from the last hiccup they gave you which was before the baby arrived if i can remember, if you didnt learn from that trouble they gave you then this is why its all going pear shaped once again.

sorry its probably no help throwing that at you but like a horse, some people if you give and inch they take a mile and these are doing so but hey ho, why shouldnt they if they're allowed!

I was a horsey mad parent of three babies under 3yrs old! never stopped me taking babies to stables or looking after my horse properly either!!!
 
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