Should I deprive my horse of turn out to keep him competition sound?

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kanter

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My horse has been patched up for the past few years, due to various problems. I had LOU for a foot problem as he was insured to event, now he does dressage, but he also has impinging spines and chronic SI which means its quite a challenge keeping him on the road, but he's been doing really well this summer and has won some mediums.. A series of events (starting to teach him flying changes / hooning around in the field / cold damp weather ) has caused a flare up of his back problems. He had 2 weeks off and some physio but is still not right. We also moved yards and the 'new arena' on new yard has not materialised so I am having to box him to another yard to use their arena, and I doubt all the loading and unloading is doing him much good either. Here is my dilemma: he is qualified for the winter semis but physio says he will not be right without getting his back injected (last done 2 years ago). He is booked in next week for this which will give me three weeks to get him back into proper work. The thing is he is so full of himself at the mom that he is a complete prat in the field, which is not good for his back as its very wet and slippy and he has no sense of self preservation, and also he is shod with heel extensions and its a b**gger keeping them on this time of year. So the bottom line is if I have his back done I will just have to keep him stabled 24 / 7 till after the semis and prob till spring when ground better. He did 6 months box rest when he first injured his foot and coped fine mentally so should I crack on and ignore nagging guilty thoughts about not turning him out, or scrap it, save the money from the injection (hes not insured) and just give him the rest of the winter off?

Well done for getting this far!
 
personally my priority would be his physical and mental health but i am not particularly competitive and would feel too guilty. so would turn out and have a few months off.
 
Had a similar problem with my horse in that hed go lame whenever he was turned out on hard ground; so I can imagine how your feeling. For me personally I felt that no tunout was not an option as in my eyes this would be preventing my horse from having a life, just to allow me to enjoy mine a little bit more. Having said that, the week prior to the BYRDS nationals last summer (not really a big deal but cost a lot of money) I kept him sound be giving him 2 hours turnout a day & then a further hour in the school loose with another horse. To me this felt like a reasonable compromise - yet I can understand it is extremely difficult to emulate as its not the most practical solution!
 
I am really not sure about this one! My horse has a spavin and had an SI strain some yrs back. The vet told me he needed 6-9 months box rest. Now there is no way my horse would cope with that mentally so I tried a small electic fenced area and he just kept getting out. In the end I succumb to just turning him out. His quality of life was far better, he recovered and he hasn't had any back issues since. I don't think he had any injections at the time. My horse also likes to have a hoon around the field so he would have done this for a few minutes a day I should think!
It sounds to me like if you inject you are then going to have to be fairly aggressive about getting your horse fit enough for your winter semis. My gut reaction, I must admit, says give him some time off to recover, perhaps starting off in the stable and then maybe in a confined area??? There will always be other competitions?? I know it is disappointing though. I'd perhaps ask a vet or get a second physio opinion.
 
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personally my priority would be his physical and mental health

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I agree. If he is a serious competition prospect - maybe I'd feel a little differently. However he doesn't sound as if he could be that serious a prospect given his soundness issues.........
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So I would not keep him in.
 
My personal opinion is that its not unreasonable to expect horses to do a job and earn their keep. Sometimes this is not ideal for their health and they would also prefer to live long lives out in a field full of grass doing no work but no-body would keep high maintenance horses if they didn't do some sort of job. You sound like a lovely considerate owner doing the best for your horse, don't feel bad expecting him to do his bit towards the hobby you have him for. If he needs to stay in for a while to enable him to be useful, as you say, he will deal with it, and its not forever. If you're giving him plenty of work in preparation for the competition and with the weather being crap he'll probably not miss turnout that much anyway. He sounds like a lucky horse to have you when he's a LOU case already - Go for the competition.
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but no-body would keep high maintenance horses if they didn't do some sort of job.

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Perhaps that makes me pretty strange then! I've had my horse since a 4 yr old, he has a spavin and has had back issues that have meant at least 2 periods of 6-9 month boxrests. He is NOT low maintanance. He is an intelligent horse requiring stimulation and he's not the easiest in the stable.
These days he is ridden 3-4 times/wk, does dressage and some showing. His spavin has settled and he hasn't had back issues for yrs.
BUT there were times when I considered he may never be able to work and I would never have given up on him. He would always stay with me even though I have to pay for livery.
Perhaps I am crackers!!!!
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He is booked in at vets on Tuesday, but as he is how he was when last injected I would think the advice will be the same. Last time I think he had a few days off, a few days lunging and then was back in work. He's only had a couple of weeks off so wont have lost any fitness, will just need tuning up. Physio thinks injection will give him another 2 years competing- he will probably be retired as a hack after that. She is not keen on turning him away as he needs to keep his muscle tone, and thinks the only reason he has done so well till now is becuase I keep him very fit. It's so difficult, I want him to enjoy being a horse, and his overall welfare is paramount, but ultimately he is a competition horse, not as a pet.
 
tbh in his case I would be inclined to wonder if it is fair to inject his back etc. for a competition, is it competition legal?
I would always turnout I'm afraid..
 
I'd have to say I'd inject and as long as he can be exercised go for comp. It's not ideal but you say he copes well in stable. Many horses are stabled 23 hours a day. Possibly look at using horse walker as well as ridden work to break the day up , or even lead out in hand ?
 
if he copes well in the stable, and you (or someone) has the time to lead him out a couple of times a day maybe, in addition to ridden exercise, then i would do what you really want to do, keep him in, and hopefully get to the competition.
if he's got heel extensions on and rips his shoes off he'll make a mess of his feet anyway!
 
If I'm honest - and please don't jump down my neck, it's just how I read it! - a part of me is saying it sounds like the injection at this time, is more for your benefit so you will be able to compete shortly, thus keeping up with your plans, rather than it being a necessity for his health when possibly turning away for a while would still bring him back to health but in his own time.
 
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If I'm honest - and please don't jump down my neck, it's just how I read it! - a part of me is saying it sounds like the injection at this time, is more for your benefit so you will be able to compete shortly, thus keeping up with your plans,

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Yes probably true - is that wrong?
 
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Yes probably true - is that wrong?

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I think it probably is if it's to the detriment of the horse's well being
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It's interesting to read the range of replies you are getting. At the end of the day you know your horse best and only you can decide what is right for the two of you. While it's not ideal, there are plenty of competition horses out there that don't get any turnout for a whole host of reasons. Have you thought about posting this query on the competition riders board as well?

A x
 
As I read it the injection will stop him being in pain from spasms or whatever in his back and allow you to achieve your goal by competing? And give him a longer term competitive future, even if you have to limit what you do with him - It won't mean 'ride now pay later'?

So long as it helps keep him sound and happy longer term I'd go with the injection, keep him in for a couple of months and enjoy the competition. So long as he is getting regular work and tlc from you he should cope and it is worth it in the long term.
 
If it was me, for me, then personally it would be wrong, it's not like just a satchet of bute is it but the injection then a load of restrictions etc and all for the sake of a competition? I personally don't agree with dosing horses up so they can compete but that is just me; a lot of other people won't see any harm in it and do it regularly.

But then again, I'm not competitive enough to know what you are going through which doesn't help and I have worked with horses long enough to know that their timing is not usually helpful for any plans we might make for them!
Not much help, sorry.
 
If it were me, I would do whatever I felt was right for me & my pony, if inside yourself you feel that this could be the last time EVER that you would be able to compete him at this level, & this is your ultimate ambition, then I would inject, go for it. However, if you really think that with rest he could come right & you could have another chance without the injection, then perhaps that is the right way to go. Remember, it is your horse, & ultimately you must make the best choice for you, good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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As I read it the injection will stop him being in pain from spasms or whatever in his back and allow you to achieve your goal by competing? And give him a longer term competitive future, even if you have to limit what you do with him - It won't mean 'ride now pay later'?

So long as it helps keep him sound and happy longer term I'd go with the injection, keep him in for a couple of months and enjoy the competition. So long as he is getting regular work and tlc from you he should cope and it is worth it in the long term.

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I agree. It doesn't sound as though the injection will be to the long term detriment of his wefare. It's all a matter of balancing his best interests with yours and in this case, I would inject. Good luck whatever you decide
 
TBH I couldn't keep any horse stabled 24/7 unless is was absolutely necessary. I don't think its right for a horse who could be out to be cooped up in a stable permanently and I cannot understand those who choose to do it. For his own sanity, Id leave him out.

I am competitive and can understand how much you must want to do the semi's. But leaving him in when you say he's feeling so fresh already... I just couldn't. Id try other things, probably have the injection if it makes him more comfortable and then possibly reduce the size of his paddock and put him in with an old chilled out horse so hopefully he wont tear about so much. But I assume you've tried this?
 
Is it not possible to make a small turn out area? I have the same kind if issues with my horse in the field (he has arthritis of the coffin joint) I have dived his field in to smaller bits so, he is out but not in a big enough bit to run about in to much! & has all the hay he can eat to try to keep him occupied.
 
I am fairly obsessive about horses having turnout and mine spend most of their time out 24/7, BUT for 3 weeks and to really feel the benefit of the injection which presumably will again make a long term difference, I woudln't have big issues with keeping him in. He can start turnout again when this immediate competition deadline is over.
 
Only you know how he will cope mentally with being in. If he's content then it wouldn't worry me at all. One of ours seems to hate being out at any time of year - I've tried different fields and friends and she just tries to murder the friends and runs around frantic wanting back in again to sleep and nibble her hay! I've simply stopped worrying about her being in and make sure she is walked in hand and ridden 6 days out of 7.
 
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So long as it helps keep him sound and happy longer term I'd go with the injection, keep him in for a couple of months and enjoy the competition. So long as he is getting regular work and tlc from you he should cope and it is worth it in the long term.

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Couldn't agree more. Chucking a horse with these issues out in the field at this time of year would be doing him no favours at all. As long as he's settled being stabled, go with the injection and keep him in - as long as you can work him daily and perhaps walk him out in hand, turnout in a manege for an hour etc.

My OH's HW hunter actually doesn't LIKE being out except for the odd hour when the midges aren't biting, it's not too hot (or wet, or cold, or windy!) Otherwise he stands at the gate and yells to be brought in. He does 30 minutes on the walker first thing, he's ridden out, and then either goes on the walker for another 30 minutes or goes for a play in the manege in the afternoon. In between, he eats - or sleeps. Suits him VERY nicely indeed!
 
Having a horse in 24/7 is not ideal, but if you have a competition horse and you wish to compete, you have to do whatever it takes to keep it on the road! Anything can, and often does, go wrong with them at any time, so if limiting, or indeed stopping, their turnout is the necessary evil, then I say go for it! My horse is also a total loon in the field - particularly at this time of year when there's no grass - and although I had limited his turnout to 1 1/2 hrs every other day, (for his safety) he has still managed to put a small hole in a Superficial tendon! He could be turned away somewhere to recover, but he is a comp horse with a job to do, and will be back into full work much quicker if he just does build up work from the stable.
At least if he has the injection, and works from the stable your horse will (hopefully) avoid silly injury, and probably be happier doing his job, rather than being stuck out in a muddy field in this miserable weather! If he enjoys his work, and has been happy with this regime before i'm sure he'll be fine!
Sadly my boy is a grumpy arse in the stable at the best of times, and gets worse by the day when he's kept in, but needs must!
Good luck with the treatment, training and the semi's!
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Well, you could lead him out in hand to graze and maybe he would be OK in a small electric fenced area for 2-3 hours per day. That is what a lot of horses have and they are called "turned out daily."

Well if it was me, and I had qualified for a competition and it is going to be a temporary measure, ie. not for the rest of his life, then I would keep him in. If you have extended shoes on then I can't see how he could go out anyway.

You would have to be careful about his quality of life - equine company, stable mirror, maybe use a snack ball for part of his feed, leading out/graze in hand, doing massage or Tellington Touch exercises for a while every day or so.

I think it is going to be very time consuming, but if you get there with a sound and happy horse it will be worth while. He can spend the rest of his life turned out in a field.
 
Wow! Thanks for all the replies guys! I am going to defer final decision till he has seen the vet next week, but it is really interesting to read everyone's views. Re - fencing small paddocks, yes I do this in the summer, in fact he lived out pretty much 24/7 this summer, though I seemed to spend more time moving fencing than actually riding. It doesn't really work when the fields are so wet though - he would end up standing in mud, pulling his shoes off and getting miserable. Will provide update next week!
 
Key question - how does he cope being kept in? Some horses adjust well and cope fine and are happy. Others completly object and its not practical for their psychological welfare.

A couple of the horses i liveried with in the UK were kept in because they were absolutly disasterous in the field. They went from one injury to another in flat, post and rail fields. In the end they gave up and the horses were kept in.

For me, keeping them in full time isnt ideal, but at present, mine is stabled 24 / 7. Jack has been amazing. Hes gone from daily turnout in the UK to pretty much nothing over here and although I was really really worried about him, hes been really good and settled into his new routine well.

If you do go down this route, you have to make sure you can provide him enough stimulation and exercise.

Mine is on the horse walker for an hour, 7 days a week. Hes then turned out in one of the indoor arenas. I ride for about an hour in the afternoon and hes walked out to graze inhand also.

Our stables allow for good interaction and theyre fed three times a day. All of this is basically done to avoid the horses just been stood doing nothing for as little time as possible.

I dont condone these routines as being the ideal. However in some circumstances, there is little alternative. Id trial run and see how he copes with limited turnout before you make your mind up. Some absolutly cant handle it.

The other thing to remember is that the yard also needs to be able to deal with the setup. Your horse is going to get much more stressed if he has to watch his neighbours coming and going all day while he has to stay in. Ours are all in and are put onto the walker in the groups that theyre stabled in to allow them to keep as much of the herd instinct that they lose as possible.

Does that make sense?
 
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