Should I move yard or stay

[Cheetchy]

Hi looking for some advice. My horse is on a yard that's pretty basic, we have good offroad hacking, a small indoor arena which is on an incline then a decent sized outdoor floodlit are a with pea gravel surface. We have jumps etc. Grazing wise he can have all year round with the option to do 24/7 summer turnout those are all positives. However he's over 16h and the stable is only just over 9ft by 8ft on the small side then the yard only put a couple handfuls of shavings into absorb wee. This means the horse is laying in his pee and poop. They don't do rug changes so he's in the same rug 24/7, the hard feed is literally a handful of feed but ad lib hay/haylage they hold for vet farrier etc. The frustration I have is the staff can be quite rude and don't really seem to care if they can't catch him they'll leave him in field till I go along, they muck out but often scrape woth shovel and leave poop etc in his drain chanel, and hay covered in pee left on the floor, I often go along in the evening to find they haven't filled his net and if I want there he'd have half a net to last him overnight, I fond myself scrubbing his stable at the weekend because its been poorly cleaned during the week then they don't clean the automatic drinkers.

Then I can't get regular lessons on the yard to progress our schooling and they won't let me have a freelance instructor onsite. The yard is a riding school also.

Most of the liveries are OK but there is a bit of clique on the yard and then we have one terrible livery who stomps about in a bad mood - I don't have anything to do with her.

I have a couple of good friends which I think is why I haven't left but now I'm at a stage where I feel his needs aren't being met adequately.

I've found another local yard who have onsite trainer, big roomy stables with full beds, excellent outdoor arena, very good reputation but in winter no grass turnout, my horse would be turned out in an indoor area for a couple hours with his field buddies and some haynets, the new yard also do rug and boot changes and feed to your requirements, when I visited the yard was very well maintained and spotless they clean feed buckets and drinkers daily, and there is an indoor arena albeit small for poor weather. The YO seems amazing where as my current YO only cares about money. There is lots of hacking at new yard although some require a small amount of onload to get to the off road areas.

Am I doing the right thing taking him from my current yard where he is settled with all year grazing to this new yard? I'll make new friends and I feel like he'll be better cared for at new yard just minus the winter turnout he currently gets. I'll be able to have weekly lessons, he'll have a nice big clean stable to sleep in or do you think it's better the devil you know?

 

[Fransurrey]

I'd have left already for welfare reasons.

 

[splashgirl45]

I would keep looking as no winter turnout would put me off, is your current yard full livery? If so can you ask for more bedding or do his bed yourself

 

[Sossigpoker]

I'd move to this new yard now for welfare reasons- current yard sounds shocking.
And once there look for somewhere with winter turnout.
Don't look back , go now !

 

[mariew]

That basically sounds like a pony box. If he is mostly out it's not such a big issue. Could you get a bigger box on existing yard? No winter turnout is not great but doable if you are able to exercise every day in the evening personally I think it's ok.

 

[Goldenstar]

If you ride daily and hack a lot you can get round the no winter turnout .
The first yard sounds awful I would have gone long ago .
i don’t think it’s that unusual for owners to a bit of deep cleaning g type stuff for their own horse on a busy yard but the first yard sounds nasty .
Move but it might be a stop gap move .

 

[Cheetchy]

Yeah to be honest it was the only yard around my area with space when I bought him but it didn't seem to bad at first, just recently I'm turning up and getting annoyed more and more with cleanliness etc. I feel the fact there is so little shavings the stable should be spotless.

I've been told off for putting a little extra bedding in before, then I pay for full livery and been told if I want a full bed they won't touch his stable as they don't have time to muck out.

My friends at the yard one has been there for over 15 years and when I told her I was thinking of moving him she told me that bigger horses than him have been in those stables for years with no issues, he doesn't need much feed etc he's my first horse so I guess to begin with I've tool the advice of more experienced people but now it just isn't sitting right. I would miss the social aspect but I'd rather him be happy and his needs met over mine that's why I've been looking.

Other my current yard all the other yards within 30 min drive I've reached out to all do hard standing in winter. So that made me wonder.

 

[Cheetchy]

I do care for him, as much as he is full livery I'm along every evening after work making sure he has enough hay and sneaking in a wee bit more shavings. I've been looking for a new yard for a while and don't want to fall I'm to the trap many of the others have of staying for years complaining about the same things.

In winter he will get a couple hours turnout in indoor arena, just no grass turnout, then I'll be along every evening to exercise/ride and groom etc.

I just find myself in a situation where I don't want to stay with some of the basic needs not being met but the fear of moving him and ending up in a worse situation.

 

[Cheetchy]

If you ride daily and hack a lot you can get round the no winter turnout .
The first yard sounds awful I would have gone long ago .
i don’t think it’s that unusual for owners to a bit of deep cleaning g type stuff for their own horse on a busy yard but the first yard sounds nasty .
Move but it might be a stop gap move .

Thanks, I'm not scared to admit I'm a new horse owner, I knew it would be better to be on full livery with experience around me while I found my way with him, I'm not an expert by any means but all these little concerns I had have been growing to the point I feel like they want to take your money and not provide the care.

 

[Surbie]

Yeah to be honest it was the only yard around my area with space when I bought him but it didn't seem to bad at first, just recently I'm turning up and getting annoyed more and more with cleanliness etc. I feel the fact there is so little shavings the stable should be spotless.

I've been told off for putting a little extra bedding in before, then I pay for full livery and been told if I want a full bed they won't touch his stable as they don't have time to muck out.

My friends at the yard one has been there for over 15 years and when I told her I was thinking of moving him she told me that bigger horses than him have been in those stables for years with no issues, he doesn't need much feed etc he's my first horse so I guess to begin with I've tool the advice of more experienced people but now it just isn't sitting right. I would miss the social aspect but I'd rather him be happy and his needs met over mine that's why I've been looking.

Other my current yard all the other yards within 30 min drive I've reached out to all do hard standing in winter. So that made me wonder.

All of this would absolutely get to me. I would be very unhappy about the lack of care, from not bothering to fill a haynet to leaving the stable dirty. You're on full livery and your horse should be getting better service than this. I loathe minimal beds, and a big horse in a tiny stable has no choice but to lie in faeces. If they don't touch rugs, how are they checking the horse over when they bring it in or turnout? If you can't go down one night are you comfortable that they would spot and treat an injury?

I'm also relatively new to having a horse,and freely admit I have a lot to learn, but I would move from that. It's just not good enough. Even if the next yard was more of an interim one while looking for the perfect place.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

As a new horse owner (a while a go now) I didn't understand what I needed from a yard but I was lucky to get a very supportive yard.

I moved area and moved to a new yard which on paper was perfect but over time, and thanks to the knowledge of friends, instructors and this forum, I learnt more about my horse and what I wanted for him.

I moved to another yard when I felt the second weren't giving the level of care I wanted because his stable wasn't big enough, winter turnout was being restricted and I was unhappy with their feeding policies.

The new yard is again, from the outside, idyllic. The horse loves his life and the yard suits him. The compromise is all mine. (There's always compromise)

I think you already know you want something different for you & your horse so yes, it's time to look for a new yard. I'd be tempted to move to the new one ASAP then look around and see what is in the area where there are fewer compromises.

 

[Cheetchy]

All of this would absolutely get to me. I would be very unhappy about the lack of care, from not bothering to fill a haynet to leaving the stable dirty. You're on full livery and your horse should be getting better service than this. I loathe minimal beds, and a big horse in a tiny stable has no choice but to lie in faeces. If they don't touch rugs, how are they checking the horse over when they bring it in or turnout? If you can't go down one night are you comfortable that they would spot and treat an injury?

I'm also relatively new to having a horse,and freely admit I have a lot to learn, but I would move from that. It's just not good enough. Even if the next yard was more of an interim one while looking for the perfect place.

They don't check them the only way they'll have a look is if the horse is visibly lame. Not gonna lie I've probably learnt more from my magazine's and online forums and the more I've been learning the more I realise it's not acceptable, I guess it's just the fear cause I love hacking etc and you hear horror stories about other yards.

 

[Cheetchy]

As a new horse owner (a while a go now) I didn't understand what I needed from a yard but I was lucky to get a very supportive yard.

I moved area and moved to a new yard which on paper was perfect but over time, and thanks to the knowledge of friends, instructors and this forum, I learnt more about my horse and what I wanted for him.

I moved to another yard when I felt the second weren't giving the level of care I wanted because his stable wasn't big enough, winter turnout was being restricted and I was unhappy with their feeding policies.

The new yard is again, from the outside, idyllic. The horse loves his life and the yard suits him. The compromise is all mine. (There's always compromise)

I think you already know you want something different for you & your horse so yes, it's time to look for a new yard. I'd be tempted to move to the new one ASAP then look around and see what is in the area where there are fewer compromises.

I've seen a few already, this is the only one that I got a good feel for. One had gallops etc but I felt the YO was very ignorant and controlling, nice yard though. The 2nd there were too many restrictions like not being able to lunge in their arena, no free schooling, no wash bays and rules rules rules, a 3rd looked amazing but the yard hire out arena's externally so limited access and have to pay for use of some of the arena set up plus no hacking nearby and the last is a huge yard with stables at every possiblespace available i felt this was far to busy for me and him and dont know how they can care for over 100 horses, they also have a reputation. This new yard looks amazing, people friendly, owner very experienced and takes real pride in presentation of yard, he gave me a tour and let me see all the facilities l, explaining how it all works, let me spend time chatting to some of the staff and answered every question I had I left feeling on a high and the only concern now is the few people I told telling me the couple hoir hardstanding turnout is bad for him.

He does have mud fever so I actually thought it might not be the worst thing for him, they pick feet out, change rugs, apply suncream, fly spray etc all included the only extra I'd pay for is if I wanted different feed or supplements. It felt like my guy would be treated like one of his own instead of just a number

 

[Cheetchy]

Thanks guys, I think I knew deep down that I need to move onwards for his best interest, just people put the doubt in my head and made me wonder if my concerns were me overthinking or my lack of knowledge to not know.

 

[Surbie]

They don't check them the only way they'll have a look is if the horse is visibly lame. Not gonna lie I've probably learnt more from my magazine's and online forums and the more I've been learning the more I realise it's not acceptable, I guess it's just the fear cause I love hacking etc and you hear horror stories about other yards.

You do hear horror stories, but not all are true or fully true. I was warned about the yard I have been on for the last 2 years and told all sorts about it, but I found out later that person had been asked to leave. And I am very happy, as is my horse.

@OrangeAndLemon very rightly points out that very few yards are perfect, each has their own compromises and it's up to you to decide which you feel would best suit your horse.

Finding somewhere that will support you as a new owner is so valuable. Initially I had support from my horse's previous owner (he was on loan first), and the yard managers of the first two yards he was on, plus I've geeked out fully by going to seminars, reading posts on here and elsewhere and talking to other liveries. It doesn't replace experience, but it definitely helps! You've got good instincts - I'd trust them.

 

[Equi]

I use to care for a pony who’s stable was just a dusting of shavings then scooped out daily. The stable stank so badly of ammonia I can’t begin to imagine how horrible it was for his nose and lungs long term, and they used more shavings than if they just had a decent bed down and lifted poo daily.

Yard sounds lazy and belligerent and I wouldn’t be giving them my money when they’re not providing the service. Move now and you have the whole summer to contemplate if you want to stay with no winter grass.

 

[Annagain]

There's a difference between grazing and turnout. While grazing is preferable, I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of grazing as long as the turnout is decent, especially as he has mud fever. Having said that, I'm not convinced that a few hours in an indoor school is enough but I'd maybe look at some of the other yards (or are they the ones you've already mentioned?) with hard standing turnout as long as it's big enough for group turnout including a good run around and play and allows a decent amount of time out.

Either way, I'd get out of where you are asap so I'd go to the other place and buy yourself some time over the summer to find somewhere with better winter turnout.

 

[luckyoldme]

Should I stay or should I go now ?
Sorry nothing useful to add but every time I see this title the song comes into my head.

 

[splashgirl45]

Didn’t realise you had been looking for a while so I would now say move to the new yard and see how you get on, if everything else is spot on and you and your horse are happy and he gets plenty of time out if the stable in winter it will be much better than your current yard.. I used to travel for 40 mins each way when I was younger and I worked full time and was DIY. It’s doable if you found the perfect yard

 

[Goldenstar]

I think you should go to the new yard.
No winter turnout is not ideal but if you work him everyday but one a week and that day I would lead him out as well as him going in the school or lightly lunge him it’s doable .

If you move now he will be fully settled by the time the winter comes it will be home and you will hopefully be settled in with friends to hack with and things like that .

 

[webble]

I'd move to this new yard now for welfare reasons- current yard sounds shocking.
And once there look for somewhere with winter turnout.
Don't look back , go now !

This definitely. The only thing that puts me off the new yard is the turn out. How long is the no turnout for? 2 months or 6?

 

[Arzada]

the only concern now is the few people I told telling me the couple hoir hardstanding turnout is bad for him.

This is way better than

However he's over 16h and the stable is only just over 9ft by 8ft on the small side then the yard only put a couple handfuls of shavings into absorb wee. This means the horse is laying in his pee and poop.

You've thoroughly researched. The new yard sounds so much better. Like on a different planet better. I agree with other posters. It's time to move.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Its really hard when you are on full livery, I used to be at a place where they were super tight with bedding etc and I always used to sneak some shavings in and hay etc because I didn't feel he had enough. Nowhere is perfect, but it sounds like the other yard would be preferable as long as you can make sure he gets some daily exercise etc. I was at a yard that was the same, no turnout from Nov-March but it worked well, horses were ridden most days or put in the school for a blast etc...they all did the same so didn't know any different. More and more places have restricted grazing now, its a shame.

Id move, you never know a 3rd alternative might pop up between now and winter too.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would definitely move to the new place where you are now sounds terrible

 

[Ratface]

I do care for him, as much as he is full livery I'm along every evening after work making sure he has enough hay and sneaking in a wee bit more shavings. I've been looking for a new yard for a while and don't want to fall I'm to the trap many of the others have of staying for years complaining about the same things.

In winter he will get a couple hours turnout in indoor arena, just no grass turnout, then I'll be along every evening to exercise/ride and groom etc.

I just find myself in a situation where I don't want to stay with some of the basic needs not being met but the fear of moving him and ending up in a worse situation.

I think that you should move as soon as possible. It sounds horrid for your horse and horrid for you.
As owners, we have to take the ultimate responsibility for our horse's welfare.
Neither his or your needs are being met. Move as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Hi looking for some advice. My horse is on a yard that's pretty basic, we have good offroad hacking, a small indoor arena which is on an incline then a decent sized outdoor floodlit are a with pea gravel surface. We have jumps etc. Grazing wise he can have all year round with the option to do 24/7 summer turnout those are all positives. However he's over 16h and the stable is only just over 9ft by 8ft on the small side then the yard only put a couple handfuls of shavings into absorb wee. This means the horse is laying in his pee and poop. They don't do rug changes so he's in the same rug 24/7, the hard feed is literally a handful of feed but ad lib hay/haylage they hold for vet farrier etc. The frustration I have is the staff can be quite rude and don't really seem to care if they can't catch him they'll leave him in field till I go along, they muck out but often scrape woth shovel and leave poop etc in his drain chanel, and hay covered in pee left on the floor, I often go along in the evening to find they haven't filled his net and if I want there he'd have half a net to last him overnight, I fond myself scrubbing his stable at the weekend because its been poorly cleaned during the week then they don't clean the automatic drinkers.

Then I can't get regular lessons on the yard to progress our schooling and they won't let me have a freelance instructor onsite. The yard is a riding school also.

Most of the liveries are OK but there is a bit of clique on the yard and then we have one terrible livery who stomps about in a bad mood - I don't have anything to do with her.

I have a couple of good friends which I think is why I haven't left but now I'm at a stage where I feel his needs aren't being met adequately.

I've found another local yard who have onsite trainer, big roomy stables with full beds, excellent outdoor arena, very good reputation but in winter no grass turnout, my horse would be turned out in an indoor area for a couple hours with his field buddies and some haynets, the new yard also do rug and boot changes and feed to your requirements, when I visited the yard was very well maintained and spotless they clean feed buckets and drinkers daily, and there is an indoor arena albeit small for poor weather. The YO seems amazing where as my current YO only cares about money. There is lots of hacking at new yard although some require a small amount of onload to get to the off road areas.

Am I doing the right thing taking him from my current yard where he is settled with all year grazing to this new yard? I'll make new friends and I feel like he'll be better cared for at new yard just minus the winter turnout he currently gets. I'll be able to have weekly lessons, he'll have a nice big clean stable to sleep in or do you think it's better the devil you know?

Temporarily to the other yard then find another that allows winter turn out. The stable size alone is outrageous, that's for ponies!

Pea gravel outdoor, wtf??

 

[Cheetchy]

Thanks everyone, I think your comments have reassured me that I'm not over reacting to the things that feel wrong and that my instinct is correct that he deserves better. I'm happy to take the sacrifice for him to be happy . I've let him know I'm definitely taking the space and just got to wait on a entry date so I can get strangles test etc all organised.

It's weird as soon as I wrote out my question I think I already answered it myself

 

[Annagain]

Thanks everyone, I think your comments have reassured me that I'm not over reacting to the things that feel wrong and that my instinct is correct that he deserves better. I'm happy to take the sacrifice for him to be happy . I've let him know I'm definitely taking the space and just got to wait on a entry date so I can get strangles test etc all organised.

It's weird as soon as I wrote out my question I think I already answered it myself

Seeing things in black and white often helps. Good luck with the move.

 

[ycbm]

Temporarily to the other yard then find another that allows winter turn out. The stable size alone is outrageous, that's for ponies!

Pea gravel outdoor, wtf??

The size of the stable would have stopped me ever taking a horse there. But tiny 2-4mm pea gravel makes a pretty good arena surface. In the early days of arenas Pasada was the surface to have, and that's 2-4mm pea gravel with chopped wiring insulation mixed in.
.

 

[Bobthecob15]

The size of the stable would have stopped me ever taking a horse there. But tiny 2-4mm pea gravel makes a pretty good arena surface. In the early days of arenas Pasada was the surface to have, and that's 2-4mm pea gravel with chopped wiring insulation mixed in.
.

Yes I've heard lots of people rave about pea gravel turnout areas!