Should i say something or mind my own business

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NooNoo59

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there is a horse on my yard which gets one section of hay in the morning and one in the evening, it is on a wood pellet bed. By four pm today it had finished its night hay ration, now it will not get fed again until tomorrow morning about 7pm this does not seem right. people prob think i overfeed my boy but he has at least three sections at night and is on a straw bed until the spring grass comes thru then its no more straw! should i have a word with the owner or would she think i was just being a interfering know it all?
 
Well I don't think any horse should be left without forage for a significant period - are you 100% sure that she doesn't come back later and give the horse some more? Is the horse underweight? I know that even my good doer would be underweight on those rations.
 
russianhorse said:
It's not ideal, but tbh if horse is in good condition I would probably mind my own business
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Id probably go with this to be honest, its a tricky situation one livery trying to tell another what to do without being invited, although its not good practice on her part. :(

On a completely different topic OP, but I know your user name is NooNoo and not NONO but every time I see it I now think of that blasted hair removal gadget on TV and everytime I see the advert I think of your Username on here:eek::p:p
 
Could it be they don't know any better?

I had a similar situation and I emailed an artical to my fellow grazers on the importance of fibre with a note "I just got sent this its really good reading." In my case it didn't make a difference but at least I tried.

I wish when we were kids I had been given correct advice instead of the rusbish stuff we got from so called experienced horse owners/ instructors.
 
The importance of fibre
Article from RD1's 'Straight from the Horse's Mouth', February 2011.

Horses and ponies should be fed an absolute minimum of 1% of their bodyweight in dry matter fibre per day, and ideally between 1.5-3%.

Why is fibre so important?
1.Fibre is a major source of energy.
2.Fibre keeps the hindgut healthy. The horse’s gastrointestinal tract is an enormous organ and it needs to be kept full. This prevents it from physically collapsing on itself or twisting up in a severe case of colic. A healthy hindgut is dependent on keeping the bacterial populations healthy and to do so, they require plenty of forage for fermentation.
3.Fibre provides hydration. Fibre soaks up and holds water in the horse’s gut, which then acts as a water and electrolyte reserve for when horses need it.
4.Vitamin supply. The bacteria in the hindgut produce vitamins which may be absorbed by the horse.
What happens if a horse doesn’t get enough fibre?
1.Colic – too little fibre, dehydration and fermentation of grains in the hindgut may lead to a serious case of colic.
2.Diarrhoea – low fibre diets very often result in loose sloppy manure, which in-turn affects the whole dynamic of how the gut works. Horses with diarrhoea digest what fibre they do get less efficiently and they are prone to problems with dehydration and electrolyte deficiency.
3.Dehydration – horses on a low fibre diet don’t have a readily available water reserve in their gut.
4.Weight loss – horses fed insufficient fibre are also most likely not being fed enough energy (calories) so they may lose weight or having difficulty gaining weight.
5.Boredom – horses on low fibre diets will often have a lot of spare time to fill in during the day that would normally be spent eating. This will often lead to problems like cribbing, weaving and chewing on strange objects or eating dirt.
6.Constant hunger – fibre is the part of the diet that provides the ‘gut fill’. A diet low in fibre will leave a horse always feeling hungry, which causes its own set of problems including behavioural issues.
7.Sand colic – when horses are fed low fibre diets it increases the chances that sand and dirt will accumulate in their hindgut and cause colic or severe diarrhoea.
8.Vitamin deficiency – lack of fibre can disturb the bacterial populations in the hindgut which in turn leads to reduced production of vitamins.
9.Ulcers – fibre encourages the horse to chew, which produces saliva. The alkaline saliva then buffers the stomach acid, which helps naturally reduce the incidence of gastric ulcers
 
I wouldn't say anything directly but you could start chatting about how you had been reading a bit about ulcers and how if a horse hasn't got enough forage, blah blah and hope it sinks in!
 
I'd bring it up in a roundabout way in general conversation. Maybe mention a 'friend' with a good doer that needs little forage, & all the trouble they go to (old/late cut hay, soaking, feeding straw, splitting rations up into several lots, leaving out longer etc) to avoid the dangers of the horse going long periods without (colic, ulcers, boredom induced vices/ bad habits etc). Provided you can bring it up in the natural course of conversation, so it doesn't sound staged, it won't sound like interfering, but if the owner just doesn't know any better it might get them thinking, & perhaps get them to ask for ideas.
 
I have a horse simliar on the livery yard. I now give her another slice or so when i leave as the lady goes really early and like the horse your talking about .

Is the horse underweight? if it's overweight maybe that's the only way they keep the weight down it's not ideal.

Maybe try and raise the subject ? about hay something maybe about how much hay she gets throught a week because you getting thorought alot, this could cause her to say the reason why she feeds so little.

Good luck :)
 
Highlight your concerns with the YO, it is their stance to look after the welfare of their liveries (or should be at least).
 
I find this upsetting. All our horses get hayed and watered at 10.00pm each night as well as at 5.00pm.

I would ask her if her horse is fed again later in the evening and let her know you have noticed he has finished his hay at 4.00pm. She may not know and/or not know any better.

I could not keep quiet as I think it is very cruel to leave a horse for such a long period without forage.
 
I would say something if this is a regular occurrence. The horse will be without food for 15 hours assuming it is fed again at 7am. As long as you do it tactfully it need not cause disagreements. Alternatively, could you have a word with the YO / YM? It might be better they tell her rather than a fellow livery.
 
This sounds similar to my situation. Have to say I was amazed by some of the replies I got on my thread!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=585286

I phoned WHW and emailed pics. The Field Officer got in touch very quickly. He visited the horse two mornings in a row to see exactly what was happening. When he phoned me he said he really wasnt happy with what he had witnessed and would have a word with her. Didnt appear to have a problem with the length of time horse was in with no food, which surprised me. Things improved forage wise for a while but think thats starting to tail off again. Anyway I sympathise with you, as its very hard to have to witness this long term.
 
Sadly I know of several horses which are stabled from 3pm and not fed again until 8.30-9.00am next day. A welfare officer would say they were ok based on their weight - well of course a cooped up stabled horse doesn't use many calories standing around so imo the weight will likely always be fine unless you have a stressy horse.
I would not keep a horse like this as I believe it is cruel and extremely unnatural.
 
I had this dilemma a few years ago when stabled next to a girl who only gave her horse a tiny amount of haylage because it was heating. The horse was so thin, started cribbing badly and clearly uncomfortable with ulcers. I found an article about ulcers and how to calculate forage needs and asked her to hold my horses whilst I weigh taped them and calculated what hay to feed them. I then said she could borrow the article, weigh tape and hay weight if she wanted and I could hold her horse in return for her helping me. I don't think she felt I was interfering and she later asked me and the YO if we thought the horse had ulcers. At that point I let the YO take over with the advice.
The trick is to find a way to make sure they have the knowledge without being seen to tell them what to do.
 
I think it is something you should discuss with YO if concerned. It is their role to intervene if things aren't right. If nothing is still done then you could have a word directly. Perhaps if they are concerned about weight they might consider some oat straw to just give something to chew through the night.
 
horsesatemymoney said:
I wouldn't be confrontational, but maybe say that you'd noticed he had finished by 4pm, did she want you to put another net in before you go home?
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That's a good idea, a polite approach without being critical

. I am now on a full livery yard bu when I was on DIY I remember seeing horses with very little bed where mine was deep straw big banks, like you said very little hay and I fed 10-12lbs haylage so complete contrast but why can you do? I a horse is in good condition they must be ok just means they are no living a life of luxuary like others
 
Queenbee said:
Id probably go with this to be honest, its a tricky situation one livery trying to tell another what to do without being invited, although its not good practice on her part. :(

On a completely different topic OP, but I know your user name is NooNoo and not NONO but every time I see it I now think of that blasted hair removal gadget on TV and everytime I see the advert I think of your Username on here:eek::p:p
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and i could do with that little machine right now - could plait my legs must start shaping up for summer!!
 
Rollin said:
I find this upsetting. All our horses get hayed and watered at 10.00pm each night as well as at 5.00pm.

I would ask her if her horse is fed again later in the evening and let her know you have noticed he has finished his hay at 4.00pm. She may not know and/or not know any better.

I could not keep quiet as I think it is very cruel to leave a horse for such a long period without forage.
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This ^^ I do think some people think out of sight.... and just hope for the best and imagine / kid themselves the hay has lasted. I do a bedtime check and I soak the hay to ensure the good doers get fibre without too many calories.
 
Purple18 said:
I have a horse simliar on the livery yard. I now give her another slice or so when i leave as the lady goes really early and like the horse your talking about .

Is the horse underweight? if it's overweight maybe that's the only way they keep the weight down it's not ideal.

Maybe try and raise the subject ? about hay something maybe about how much hay she gets throught a week because you getting thorought alot, this could cause her to say the reason why she feeds so little.

Good luck :)
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Even if people thought I was doing wrong, I would NOT be happy at someone feeding my horse without my consent.

I would go to the YO or go with the other replies of subtly dropping the subject into conversation.
 
I'd maybe ask why before being overly critical. My horse is overweight and I am currently having to feed him very little to get his weight right down before the spring grass comes through. He gets 8lbs (dry weight) of soaked haylage a night, double netted. I know it doesn't last him long but he really needs to lose the weight as imo he is laminitis risk. Maybe this horse is the same?
 
Twinkley Lights said:
:eek::eek: reminds me of the time when the plaster tech took the plaster cast off my leg ... said loudly "I haven't seen that much hair since Guy the gorilla":o Thank god for curtains;)
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I know the feeling - it's not like you can shave under the cast :rolleyes:


Not sure how to go about this but might be worth talking to the YO about your concerns, as others have said maybe the owner doesn't know any better.

Slightly off track this is one of the reasons I'm loving my mare being pregnant, we've gone from a very small net which I'm sure she's finished by half way through the night (but even at that we're struggling to keep her weight down) to getting a slice and half - 2 slices a night (big square bales slices, small net would be 1/2 slice or so) and she's almost loosing a little weight (her crest is going down at any rate :D:D:D). She actually has a little left in the morning - really enjoying this
 
I think you'd better raise your concerns with your YO. It may well be that the owner or another person puts in another net later. I note that your own horse is overweight so there may be people tutting at the way you look after your horse just like you are doing about this person.

You have not come back with an answer on what condition the horse is in. It would be interesting to know.
 
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