should my veteran pony live in or out?

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Equinimity

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Sorry , this is going to be a bit rambly and long....

Basically , my 32 year old pony has dropped some condition recently. She's not skinny but definately not that well covered. So i'm really feeding her up. 4 feeds a day, build up cubes etc, lots of Alfa A, oil (not overfeeding - each meal is fairly small). Completely ad lib hay so there's always some left, keeping her very well rugged, had her teeth checked which are ok for her age. She doesn't quid or drop food and has a healthy appetite. she's wormed up to date and is bright in herself, droppings normal etc. she has a paddock mineral lick too. I am hopful she'll pick up again with this new regime. She's lived out for the last 10 years with no probs and I do think it's kept her young and mobile. My issue is - do I start bringing her in at night to help with weight gain?

She shares with a little mini so i have no way of knowing how much hay she's eaten herself, but there's always some there and I watch her eat lots while i'm mucking out and he's fairly uninterested in hay. They have 4 sections in the morning and again at night. I also give her a scoop or so of hi-fi and Alfa A mixed to pick at incase she's gone off hay and that's all gone by morning.

So... she'd be warmer in, but i rug her well so she can't exactly be cold at the mo while out. She would stress a little coming in to start with, she's very set in her ways but mini would come into the next stable so i'm sure she'd settle. Her joints are ok but I think she'd stiffen up in her stable. But then I'd know exactly how much hay she's eaten if she's in.

Extra effort/money isn't really a factor in the decision as she's kept at home, I have practically no bl00dy social life as it is and am happy to make myself poor if it means she's ok!

Anyway - opinions please. Am I being cruel/stupid keeping her out?

PS - i'm not one of these people who keeps oldies dragging on and on just for my own selfish reasons. I know she's ancient but has been in perfect condition til this winter kicked in and I don't feel it's "time" just yet.

PPS - She doesnt have a field shelter but there's very dense and overhanging hedge and trees on 2 sides of the field.

PPPS - vet's out next week for jabs so will be chatting to him and she'll get an MOT.

Sorry this has been long but it's all swimming around in my head and i'd like some other people's ideas. Am off now to try and have a nice meal in town with some non horsey friends. I will try not to bore them to death with my in/out pony obsessing and refrain from crying into my linguine! Large glass of wine I think!

Thanks in advance guys :-)
 
Given that your horse has lived out happily and would quite likely get stiff I think you should carry on as you are. I would just keep her well rugged and with all the hay she needs out in the well sheltered field.
Can you add some speedibeet to her diet? And/or some oil?
 
Mmmmm, can see why you're concerned. I had a veteran pony when I was a kid and he never, ever was kept in during his life - he spent all his life out 24/7 and we never even had a rug for him!!!

This is a difficult one; personally I think you need to talk with your vet re. the weight loss. The thought that occurs to me is perhaps to ask your vet if he/she can get some blood tests done and see what comes up, and go from there. Is she drinking any more than she used to? What's her wee/poo looking like? Perhaps you need to re-think what she's eating - best people to ask about this are the feed manufacturers themselves as they're very genned up on what to feed a veteran.

Sorry to be obvious, but you say her teeth are "good for her age", but who does her teeth? If its the vet, hate to say this but often vets just "do" teeth because they happen to be checking the horse generally, sort of thing, but it might be worth getting a specifically equine dentistry expert to look at her as they might pick up something which is making her mouth a bit sore maybe.

Again, hate to be obvious, but it might be worth looking at her worming regime afresh as well.

The problem is that if you do start bringing her in at night now at this time of year, you'll have to continue with it until the better weather; tho personally I think this is what I'd do - perhaps she's getting to the stage where she'd appreciate it now.
 
As Moddyinmanolos says really. As long as she has shelter from adverse weather I don't see why she shouldn't be ok. Keep her rugged and just keep an eye on her.

TBH at her age it is always going to be a struggle and she has done exceedingly well to get to that ripe old age. Well done to you too :-)
 
OK I will put the other side of the coin. Just because she has wintered out well in the past doesnt mean she can continue to do so with no adverse effect for ever more. She IS 32 and at some point she isnt going to be able to cope with the regime thats suited her for so long. We are only at the beginning of winter now and she is dropping weight already, this is what would concern me, Id be worried that no matter how many meals and piles of fibre she gets that she isnt going to be able to keep up with or overtake the loss in condition.

Im a bit soft when it comes to oldies and would be bringing her in at night for some quiet comfort.
 
Agree with keeping her out. Plus why change a routine at 32!!

If you think shes struggling eating enough hay maybe leave some chaff/speedi beet out, can you out of mini's reach ie a manger on a fence???

Toffees just dropped a little bit but I think its just coz of this cold snap all a sudden, shes done it all the time ive owner, its like she finally accepts winter is here :D but she does drop more now.

At the end of the day you know your ponio and what shes happy with
 
yes maybe she may need to come in at night but then maybe she will stiffen and be miseraable if in. atch 22 question - the best person to talk to is your vet - have your horse checked over totally and discuss all your worries with your vet - your vet knows your horse as does you - but to be honest you seem to be doing the very best for your horse - all credit to you - so chat with vet - possibly erect a shelter? just an idea but anyway have a huge hug as we so worry about our horses dont we xxxxx
 
Sounds as though you are doing all you can to keep her in good health. I'd leave her out if I was you and just continue to keep an eye on her. My old boy (who is nearly 30) doesn't appreciate being brought in now and only uses his field shelter to escape from the flies in summer! In winter, he's well rugged and happy out of doors as far as I can tell. Hopefully the vet will reassure you that all is well. If you are feeding oil, are you giving a Vit E supplement?
 
I'd try keeping her out - might it be worth trying a different compound feed? I've got a 35yo (which comes in at night, but has always done that) and look after another 35yo at work. I started feeding mine Allen & Page Calm & Condition about 3 years ago with instant results, and the one at work this autumn - she had fallen away in the summer. She is now well covered and the vet is pretty impressed! And that is with just feeding C&C on its own - adding Fibrebeet boosts it even more, with the advantage that it is easily eaten by almost any horse, regardles of the state of their teeth.
 
Could you do a compromise? Could you use electric fencing to divide the paddock in two with the stable opening into one of the paddocks? Leave her out with the mini during the day but move her into the neighbouring paddock with the stable in it at nights so she can seek shelter if she wishes and you can keep better track of her food intake but she is less likely to get as stressed or stiff as she would being properly stabled. I would be giving her a big tub of soaked grass nuts overnight to maximise her forage intake. Be careful not to give excessive amounts of alfalfa as the high protein and mineral levels can cause problems - contact Dengie for maximum amounts.
 
Moggyinmanolos said:
Given that your horse has lived out happily and would quite likely get stiff I think you should carry on as you are. I would just keep her well rugged and with all the hay she needs out in the well sheltered field.
Can you add some speedibeet to her diet? And/or some oil?
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Thanks. She already has equibeet, Alfa A, build up cubes and oil. I will do some research into other feeds tomorrow though. She has only been on this new regime for 2 weeks so probably too early to see results.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Mmmmm, can see why you're concerned. I had a veteran pony when I was a kid and he never, ever was kept in during his life - he spent all his life out 24/7 and we never even had a rug for him!!!

This is a difficult one; personally I think you need to talk with your vet re. the weight loss. The thought that occurs to me is perhaps to ask your vet if he/she can get some blood tests done and see what comes up, and go from there. Is she drinking any more than she used to? What's her wee/poo looking like? Perhaps you need to re-think what she's eating - best people to ask about this are the feed manufacturers themselves as they're very genned up on what to feed a veteran.

Sorry to be obvious, but you say her teeth are "good for her age", but who does her teeth? If its the vet, hate to say this but often vets just "do" teeth because they happen to be checking the horse generally, sort of thing, but it might be worth getting a specifically equine dentistry expert to look at her as they might pick up something which is making her mouth a bit sore maybe.

Again, hate to be obvious, but it might be worth looking at her worming regime afresh as well.

The problem is that if you do start bringing her in at night now at this time of year, you'll have to continue with it until the better weather; tho personally I think this is what I'd do - perhaps she's getting to the stage where she'd appreciate it now.
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Wee/poo/water etc are all normal. Will ask about getting bloods done.

I have a EDT out to do their teeth. He said they're worn and she's lost a couple but there are no sharp edges and she is managing ok.

I have been worming her religously but will speak to the vet about doing a worm count perhaps.

Thanks for your help x
 
TicTac said:
As Moddyinmanolos says really. As long as she has shelter from adverse weather I don't see why she shouldn't be ok. Keep her rugged and just keep an eye on her.

TBH at her age it is always going to be a struggle and she has done exceedingly well to get to that ripe old age. Well done to you too :-)
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Thanks, that means alot. She's a very special girl and I never thought we'd still be together now!
 
I would leave out, as long as she is fed sufficient and happily rugged she wont be cold which I think is your fear. We think of horses like ourselves dont we but they're not and particularly ponies are much hardier. My 19 yo is out without rugs and a small clip and has done better since I took his rugs off. He does come in at night but only because he has to on our yard, I would have them both out 24/7 if I could so much better than dusty old stables!
 
Thanks everyone. It's nice to see that you're all fairly evenly split, so i'm not doing anything too obviously wrong. I'll be having a good chat with the vet next week and be doing some research into different feeds. Has anyone had any sucess with Equi-jewel?
 
Could you try a vetran mix like 16+ by dodson and horrel ive been told in the older horse than can be alot more effective than the build up cubes, my friend elderly pony was transformed after she fed this, she thought he would need to be PTS and within a week he was a totally different pony, gained weight, alot more perky. You might have tried it before but if not worth a hot!!:)
 
personally after cared for many veterans i would bring her in, that way you can see for sure exactly how much hay she is eating and she will drop as she gets older, they all do at some point as they age.
agree get the dentist and all bloods and cushings tested for (just in case) and give her some creature comforts (she is nearly 100 in human years!) xxx
 
My 32 year old was a real handful in winter as a 'young' 15 year old. He needed plenty of turnout.

Now he really appreciates the comfort of a dry stable and a chance to lie down on a warm dry bed. The weather is turning bad and even with a rug horses living out have cold wet ground and often mud to sleep on.

Even if it is for a few hours each day I think horses appreciate a little tlc at that age.
 
I think keep her out. I don't see any point in stressing an old horse with a new routine at this stage in her life. She may be losing condition but that's bound to happen at some point and although bringing her in could potentially improve her weight, it might also just make her stressed and miserable (I guess you could try and see).

If she is well rugged and well fed then she shouldn't really be cold so just have a chat with your vet and get another opinion on the matter. Sounds to me like you are doing everything right and just need to tinker around with food maybe.

I also think that it's better for a horse to be outside and moving around than to be kept in a stable (which could also be dusty), provided that is what they're used to. But that's just my opinion and mine live out 24/7 no matter what the weather or their age (so I am biased!). :)
 
Another vote for keeping out. My lad's field companion is 33, her owner said she used to be stabled at night until they moved to this yard 3 years ago, and has wintered better out! She does stiffen if stabled. She has one feed a day, not sure what it is but just something like Apha A, and ab-lib haylage rather than hay.
 
Hi. When our old boy reached his 30s he was hard to keep weight on, so we tried bringing him in at night. He legs swelled horribly overnight and he stiffened up terribly. So we ended up keeping him out until he was pts aged 36. He was hard to keep weight on in the last few years, but our vet was happy with him - he said he was just old and not getting the goodness from the food that he used to. He had a very good last summer and was pts in November, because of his arthritis, not his weight. Still miss him, but no regrets.
 
Equinimity said:
I have a EDT out to do their teeth. He said they're worn and she's lost a couple but there are no sharp edges and she is managing ok.
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If her teeth are worn and there are some missing, she is bound to be finding it harder to chew her hay and will therefore eat less of it, resulting in a reduced calorie intake. If you try to make up for that calorie intake with hard feed alone then you are likely to encounter other problems such as laminitis, so it is important to feed some sort of hay replacer such as soaked grass nuts or soaked high fibre cubes in largish quantities. Make sure it is something that is recommended as a hay replacer - alfalfa is not, for example. You also need to make sure that this is only eaten by your veteran and not by the mini! Personally I think the question is not so much whether she should be in a stable or not, but whether she should have some time apart from the mini so you can ensure she is getting the food she needs.
 
Should have said - I've recently erected (well, my Dad has) a "feeding station" in the paddock which is basically a post with 2 over the door feed mangers attached to the top. I can feed her with out the little one getting his beak in. I'm going to buy some hay replacer products tomorrow to leave her with overnight and see how that goes. Thanks again everyone. She and I are most grateful for the helpful advice :-)
 
My old horse is 29 and this is his first year living out through the winter. In anticipation I have started feeding Blue Chip as I know it works. This is along with his ad lib hay at night and shared hay during the day, and his mountain of Simple Systems food - this is a good option for those with teeth that arenlt great and it is all soaked so easy to eat and digest.

I wouldn't leave him out if he didn't have a field shalter which is basically a stable with the door left open. Could you maybe invest in a shelter? Not cheap I know but if your dad is handy maybe he could construct one?

I think a feed balancer such as blue chip or similar would help.
 
TicTac said:
As Moddyinmanolos says really. As long as she has shelter from adverse weather I don't see why she shouldn't be ok. Keep her rugged and just keep an eye on her.

TBH at her age it is always going to be a struggle and she has done exceedingly well to get to that ripe old age. Well done to you too :-)
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I agree.
Is she in the heaviest weight rugs or can you get a warmer one?
Have you reviewed her diet to make sure she is getting the maximum amount of calories per meal?
Can she still eat hay? Have you tried offering a hay replacer/grass nuts too?

Stress of coming in may be counterproductive to your efforts as this may cause weight loss.
 
Our oldie (28) dropped weight last year, to the point where we thought it might be her last.
She didn't eat much hay, no matter how much we offered her.
We had her annual teeth check in Summer and she picked up. We shall obviously have to increase the frequency this year. She is eating haylage this year and is still putting on weight. We also feed her soaked grassnuts and dried grass (Graze-on). Ours comes in at night in winter because our land gets poached but I think, in your situation, I would probably leave her out.
 
A quick update on this…

She put the weight back on that she’d dropped and continued to thrive over the winter living out - really glad I went with my gut instinct. It’s been hard work, 4 or more feeds a day, trudging up there in the snow and dark – living out is not always the easier option but it’s worth it when it pays off. She has never been stiff, has had no probs lying down/rolling/getting back up, no breathing issues and I think her quality of life has been better for living out with her little mate. She’s a ripe old age so I don’t think too far into the future but she’s had a good winter and we’re hoping this nice sunny spring weather continues :-)
 
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