Should she say anything

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StableMum

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My daughter had a show jumping lesson yesterday evening with a fairly well known instructer/ eventer. Lessons are advertised as usually being about 1 hour long.
Unfortunatly having got there and gone to the school to warm up as asked, she then had to wait for an hour for the lesson to start as the instructer was delayed in traffic, which obviously couldn't be helped and wasn't a problem. However the lesson lasted just 33 minutes. Now I know that a lesson would be shorter if the horse has done enough but in this case the first 10 minutes was talking to establish what was wanted and the rest some pretty low key jumping. The horse didn't break a sweat.
My daughter found the lesson useful and would like to go back but if her money is only paying for half of what she expected it's a very expensive lesson indeed.
Rather than not go back or risking a shortened lesson again, should she message saying something like she really enjoyed her lesson but was a bit surprised that it only lasted just over half an hour, or would that be seen as rude?
 
The instructor was unavoidably late and may well have felt she didn't want to keep the horse working for too long after a bit of an on off warm up, if what was wanted was attained and found to be useful then I would not say anything, book another one and see how it goes.

I train people and often less is more, a 30 min jumping lesson can be plenty for a getting to know you session yet equally sometimes they run on over an hour if we hit an unexpected issue, it is not the quantity but the quality that counts and 30 mins of quality instruction can be far better value than 1 hour of poor instruction.
 
the instructor may have thought the horse had done enough as he was so late, they dont have to sweat to prove they have worked and the horse will have been mentally tired as well if he was learning new things...i would book another lesson and see if the same thing happens. sometimes an instructor feels that the horse and rider have learnt enough in a shorter time than the advertised length of the lesson...and that can work the other way as well.
 
If you paid for an expensive hour & instructor gave you half an hour which may have been understandable given they were late I would 100% expect the instructor to have explained reasons & given you a refund - we have had many 30 minute jumping lessons packed full but if youve paid for the hour that is what you should be given - I would definitely message them - good luck
 
It's one of those things which depends on loads of factors. I've used trainers who charge a flat rate, and you're there for as long as needed - half an hour, forty minutes, an hour, or on occasion more. They watch the horse, they know their stuff, and they push you far enough that you both learn something without cooking the horse. Sometimes the horse doesn't need to break a sweat to have done enough mentally.

Alternatively, they could be a disorganised, lazy instructor who thought they'd see what they could get away with... However, if your daughter felt it was useful, I'm more inclined to believe the former!
 
The lessons are advertised as 'usually being around an hour' so it is not an hour of time being bought but a lesson with no set time unlike a RS where you are buying a set time period, as a trainer I would probably have given a bit longer but would be unhappy if a message came that asked why it was short or implied they wanted a refund.

It can work both ways sometimes a client arrives late and I try and give a full lesson but will not keep the next person waiting or expect my fee to be reduced, I never charge extra when we go over the hour if we need to.
 
be positive said:
The lessons are advertised as 'usually being around an hour' so it is not an hour of time being bought but a lesson with no set time unlike a RS where you are buying a set time period, as a trainer I would probably have given a bit longer but would be unhappy if a message came that asked why it was short or implied they wanted a refund.

Absolutely don't want a refund, the lesson was useful. We were just a bit surprised when it ended so soon with no explanation. She didn't work the horse in the hour that she waited because she didn't know how long she would have to wait so horse wasn't tired.
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My lessons have varied in length between 30mins and the hour I was expecting, sometimes I’ve understood why, sometimes not so much but overall I’m happy with what I’m getting out of the lessons. Maybe try another one and see if there is more time spent?
 
I don't think you pay an "hourly rate"... I think you pay for someone's skillset, and if they can deliver that constructively in half an hour, there's no need for them to take an hour over it (and, indeed, doing so may be destructive). Sometimes, it works the other way.

Mind you, I've happily paid up to £200/hour for lessons, and am currently trying to convince certain people that they don't charge enough for their skills. I'm very free and easy about paying for training (with money I barely have :p )
 
JFTD-WS said:
I don't think you pay an "hourly rate"... I think you pay for someone's skillset, and if they can deliver that constructively in half an hour, there's no need for them to take an hour over it (and, indeed, doing so may be destructive). Sometimes, it works the other way.

Mind you, I've happily paid up to £200/hour for lessons, and am currently trying to convince certain people that they don't charge enough for their skills. I'm very free and easy about paying for training (with money I barely have :p )
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I completely agree with this, the trainer may have thought that they had achieved what they needed to achieve in that time, and it can be counter-productive to continue further just to get a perceived value for money. I've had lessons that stop after 30 mins, I've had ones that go on longer, but a good instructor will always try to end on a good and positive note.
 
Having once paid for an hours lesson with supposedly good instructor who spent most of the lesson on the phone or talking to someone out side the school, I feel your pain.
We also had one from a well known person who hardly spoke five sentences to my daughter. I was told by some who had regular lessons from her, She doesn’t speak to you until she knows you. Doh

It’s not just the cost of the lesson, possiblely an hours travel there and back and the deisel. I gave up in the end and avoided big names.
I am in the RC and some are just diva’s, we don’t have them back.
 
honetpot said:
Having once paid for an hours lesson with supposedly good instructor who spent most of the lesson on the phone or talking to someone out side the school, I feel your pain.
We also had one from a well known person who hardly spoke five sentences to my daughter. I was told by some who had regular lessons from her, She doesn’t speak to you until she knows you. Doh

It’s not just the cost of the lesson, possiblely an hours travel there and back and the deisel. I gave up in the end and avoided big names.
I am in the RC and some are just diva’s, we don’t have them back.
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I don't think this was the daughter's experience though, the OP said she enjoyed the lesson and felt she made progress.
 
It may be that that is the optimum time for the stage she is at. It's not fair to the horse to keep going just to use up the time and get your moneys worth however it is half the time so I would expect some adjustment.

I have seen clinics with names that offer 30 or 45 minute options with different prices.

Could she ask for a 30 minute session next time priced accordingly.
 
JennBags said:
I completely agree with this, the trainer may have thought that they had achieved what they needed to achieve in that time, and it can be counter-productive to continue further just to get a perceived value for money. I've had lessons that stop after 30 mins, I've had ones that go on longer, but a good instructor will always try to end on a good and positive note.
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I agree, but would add that a good instructor would explain that :)

I used to have dressage lessons with an instructor who barely says a word, usually sits on a chair with a fag in his mouth, and quite often chats to other people while you're riding round. However, I know that his eye is never off the ball, he tells you what you need to know and sends you off to do it (after all, he is not always going to be with you to give you a running commentary) and wants you to develop your own skillset and understanding of what you are doing and why, and how your horse is responding.

I know a lot of people who think he's useless :eek::D
 
Personally I wouldn’t message - I’ve had a lot of lessons with similar instructors and this isn’t unusual in my experience - I would try another lesson and see what happens? Regardless of duration, if your daughter feels she is learning and making progress then she just needs to work out if she personally feels it is good value for money - and that will be different for everyone
 
I do agree if the instructor had their reasons for curtailing an hour long (paid for!) lesson to just 30 minutes, the reason for her decision should have been explained to you or your daughter. Fair enough if she felt both horse and or rider would benefit more from a shortened lesson then grand, but surely just say so and perhaps suggest that at a later stage of tuition it is more than likely the lesson might run well over the hour (paid for!)
 
my trainer would keep roughly to her times but if she felt that we had achieved what we had been aiming for she would suggest we end on a good note, i would normally agree as i valued her judgement and the fact that she had trained her own horse to grand prix and competed successfully told me that she knew what she was talking about and she could tell if the horse would benefit from stopping...
 
I actually think that’s quite poor and just because they are a well-known instructor doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t question them. I expect you paid quite a lot for this lesson. If they had somewhere else to get to, they should have said, ‘I’m so sorry but due to getting stuck in traffic I can only give you 30 mins, so I’ll charge you half price and let’s book in for another one’.
They would never have got away with this in the real world!
 
For my 1st lesson I’d be pretty annoyed at only half a lesson. Fair enough once you know the horse & rider to end on the right note.
 
Presumably, if the trainer had been on time part of the lesson would have been warming up but as they were late your daughter would have already done so? Therefore you can probably add the warm up time onto the time she had to give a more accurate idea of how long the lesson would have been had the trainer been on time. I wouldn't expect a huge input from the trainer while the horse was loosened off prior to starting actual exercises although it would be useful for the trainer to observe the horse and rider.
 
StableMum said:
My daughter had a show jumping lesson yesterday evening with a fairly well known instructer/ eventer. Lessons are advertised as usually being about 1 hour long.
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Being late to an appointment is not neither the responsibility nor the fault of the client.

The client pays for a 1 hour lesson, and gets half of that, so deserves a partial refund equivalent to the lost time. That's all there is to it.

I would send an email stating that I wanted either a partial refund or a 50% discount on a future lesson. Ideally, I'd want the instructor to have been on-site for at least an hour before my allotted time, to not have to deal with the "unexpected traffic" explanation.


twiggy2 said:
'usually being around 1 hour' could mean anything, your daughter has no come back with this.
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I disagree. If your butcher said "a bag of sausages is usually about 1kg" but charged your neighbour £12 for a 1kg bag on Monday and charged you the same £12 for 550g on Tuesday, would you think that fair?

If a leg of lamb was £25 and your neighbour got one weighing 1800g and you got one weighing 1650g, that would be more like a lesson "usually being around 1 hour"; an 8% difference is OK, a nearly 50% difference is not OK.
 
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I think there is a huge difference between ending a lesson early because either the horse or the rider is tired or acheived the goal for the lesson and just ending early.
Teaching is about communication and if you can not say, that was really good but I think we ought to finish there because x,y, z and this is what you need to work on, seems little to ask.

I used to have a 45min lesson with someone who had horses up to GP. Most of the lesson was spent talking as neither the horse or I was fit enough. When I had a lesson on her school master it ran to over an hour. A lot of what she said to me was just as an important as what she told me whilst riding correcting me. And it was not expensive. I wish I could afforded more, but I had young children.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
If the instructor thought the horse only needed thirty minutes for a good reason then that should have been explained. I wouldn’t expect half an hour for an hour paid. 45/50 minutes maybe.
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It sounds as if communication is not a major part of this instructor's skill-set. How the hell any-one can teach without good communication skills, I do not know.

To answer your question, OP, yes of course she should say something. I would probably ask to book a 30 mins session and ask the cost. Then I would follow it up with 'can we make that the 30 mins that got missed from my last lesson. She might not be as good a rider as the 'name' but that doesn't mean that she shouldn't assert herself.
 
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