Should the law offer more protection for horse buyers?

[Flame_]

I don't know much about legal rights if you are sold a dangerous and/or unsound horse. Only vaguely that they are better if you buy from a dealer and that they are problematic because one person's "dangerous" is another's "unsuitable" or "unsettled". There is also the problem that the seller can claim the horse was fine with them and so problems must have started since the change of hands (

generally speaking

)

I just had a look at Pixie's post and I really feel for her as I'm in a similar predicament having been sold for £5.5k an unsound unsafe horse (although selling it on doesn't sit right with me). I just thought I'd be wasting my time trying to return the horse or to claim some of the purchase price back as it just seems to me there would be so much "your word against mine" factor but I'm starting to think that is where this is all wrong.

One horse owners should not have to carry the loss on useless horses (unless of course they bred them, lame them or spoil them) Maybe more people do need to pursue compensation and they need to get it.

What do you think of my ponderings? Maybe the law is good enough and I've just got the wrong perception of it. Maybe its the way we try horses and vettings that are wrong. That horse for sale that Showjump2003 showed the video of. That wasn't sound, but I reckon it would pass a vetting as a riding club horse on a good day. Now she's not going to buy it, but someone else will.

It's p!ssing me off that a kid's supposed to now go without a riding pony (back to Pixie!) and someone made money out of it. Its not fair and I want to do something about it. Sorry I must just sound mental and this has got a bit long but I'm going to post it anyway in case anyone has some sensible ideas.

Cheers

 

[VRIN]

Use the small claims court. Its a fairly striaghtforward process, though a little long winded but you should be able to get money back. The office of fair trading is a good point of contact too.

 

[AmyMay]

I think as buyers we must make every effort to ensure that the animal we buy is suitable for us - and that we enlist the professionals to help us make the decision on whether to buy or not.

There are examples of buyers going after private sellers because the horse they bought is not as advertised - and the buyer has won.

 

[Booboos]

Interesting post and I really feel for people who have been sold unsuitable horses.

Very difficult to know what to do though, because for every person who sells a knowingly unsuitable horse there is a buyer who chooses not to vet or does something totally odd to wind the horse up, so it's five of one and ten of the other. To make matters worse horses can change enormously in a new environment, in a new herd, with a new handler/rider, on a new diet, etc. so I have loads of sympathy for honest sellers who have been caught out and honest buyers who have been caught out.

 

[martlin]

TBH, as much as I can see your frustration/sentiments, it doesn't look better from the other side either - the dealer is expected to be a bl@@dy psychic, know what the buyers circumstances and abilities are by just looking them deep in the eyes and discarding what they say. The horses are expected to be settled immediately after arriving at the new home, perform wonders and sh!t cucumbers - all for the princely sum of £2K.
Sorry, got carried away a bit.. I'm just living with constant awareness that I can be sued any day about anything into the next week...

 

[flyingfeet]

Trouble is any law like that is open to abuse

If a novice buys a quiet horse, which was ridden regularly then proceeds to stuff it with food, shut it up and not ride it; would it be the sellers fault that the horse turns into a nutter and becomes unsuitable for the novice?

This happens a lot!

 

[cariadssogreat]

I have to admit I have turned into a bit of a Jack Russel of late! I would persue it! That said - your horse is over £5k - so it would not go down the small claims track unfortunately. Unless you went for a difference in value. However if he is unsound/unsafe then he has no value?

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]
Trouble is any law like that is open to abuse

If a novice buys a quiet horse, which was ridden regularly then proceeds to stuff it with food, shut it up and not ride it; would it be the sellers fault that the horse turns into a nutter and becomes unsuitable for the novice?

This happens a lot!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I sold a 5yo horse to a lady who came 3 times to try him. Twice on her own and then with her instructor. She rode him in the school and out hacking and met large traffic, bikes, runners, the bin men, etc. The horse was fine. She said she had ridden all her life, had exercised racehorses and had regular lessons. She had him vetted and then bought him. I delivered him and phoned her twice in the first month and everything was fine. Three months later and she was on the phone saying she was taking me to court because the horse wasnt properly broken in and i shouldnt have sold him. Actually, she shouldnt have bought him. She basically wasnt experienced enough for a young horse. But how was i to know that she had obviously lied to me and as her instructor had ok'd him i thought he must be alright for her.

Yes, there are many, many dodgy sellers but there are also unrealistic buyers.

 

[Ranyhyn]

[ QUOTE ]
Trouble is any law like that is open to abuse

If a novice buys a quiet horse, which was ridden regularly then proceeds to stuff it with food, shut it up and not ride it; would it be the sellers fault that the horse turns into a nutter and becomes unsuitable for the novice?

This happens a lot!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so true. I have a bombproof hack - but if some idiot pumped him full of cereals and didn't excerise him properly, you can bet your bottom dollar someone would get hurt. And why then should it be my fault? You can only sell a horse and describe how it rides and goes for YOU.

Its the buyers responsibility to then see how it goes for THEM.

Of course there are exceptions with dishonest people, but there are also success stories too.

 

[Lou23]

The whole buying process is scary.

I have bought a fantastic pony for my daughter, we tried her twice, had her vetted, seller very honest but when we got her last year, she turned into hormonal wild pony. She took quite a while to settle and has turned into the pony we tried, took her about 6 months, she still has her in season days but we're coping better with her.

Also bought myself a horse and so far (had her 2 months) she is exactly as described by the owner but did come with a warning that she can get fizzy with good quality haylage. Apparently it's like rocket fuel.

I have always been very honest when selling my horses/ponies as i don't want repercussions or anyone getting hurt and have been told i'm too honest but I want the best home for the pony/horse.

I wish there were better ways to buy and sell horse's to protect buyers and sellers. It's scary at the best of times but worse for me when buying for my children.

 

[tasel]

I think the horse should be as the buyer states it to be... if sound, it should be sound.

BUT as soon as you go into the "temperament" arena, it goes all blurry. Was the horse well-behaved with the old owner but just not with the new one? Was the feed changed?? Just like with humans horses sometimes tend to like one person more than the other... we can't expect this to be different.

 

[Flame_]

I'm sure in my case I'd get no where. The sellers were clever people and I was (uncharacteristically

) not cynical enough.

So if a buyer does see fit to try to sue a seller, is it possible to prove to difference between buyers who've been duped and buyers who've bought a horse then caused problems by poor management, or is it pot luck who is successful so the wrong party still often comes off worse?

 

[martlin]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the horse should be as the buyer states it to be... if sound, it should be sound.



[/ QUOTE ]
There is my pet hate buyer question:
"will it pass a vetting?"

How on earth am I supposed to answer that?!
The only honest answer is that I don't know, I'm not aware of anything that would mean that the horse wouldn't, but I'm not a vet.
I simply am not prepared to state that the horse I'm selling is sound and healthy, only that it's open to vet

 

[Lou23]

I think there is too much of a grey area to it all.

Best thing would be to try and find an equestrian solicitor. There was one in the oxford area.

I have always been advised to write "Sold as seen" on the receipt and have brought horse's with this on thier receipts but not really sure how legal a term it really is

 

[tasel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the horse should be as the buyer states it to be... if sound, it should be sound.



[/ QUOTE ]
There is my pet hate buyer question:
"will it pass a vetting?"

How on earth am I supposed to answer that?!
The only honest answer is that I don't know, I'm not aware of anything that would mean that the horse wouldn't, but I'm not a vet.
I simply am not prepared to state that the horse I'm selling is sound and healthy, only that it's open to vet

[/ QUOTE ]


I know you wouldn't have the answer to that... I myself bought my horse subject to a 5* vetting. I already had a second horse lined up ready to be vetted should she not have passed the vetting.

Even with 5* vetting you cannot be too sure... my horse passed this with flying colours apparently, and it's a rollercoaster ride with her soundness now. I never blamed the stud farm owner / dealer though. Rather the vet that did the vetting... but that's a whole different story.

What I am saying though is if the seller is selling the horse as "sound", it should be one that has no prior history of lameness, one that on the day of the sale AND during the vetting comes up as sound without the need to use bute or so. Some agents also have a 1-month refund process should the horse become unsound during that time.

Better still, maybe the dealer should never even say that the horse is "sound" - this is often used as some sort of a marketing ploy these days... saying that a horse is "sound" - simply because buyers often only think about the NOW rather than what is to come.

 

[Nailed]

Yes, but vetting is like an MOT.. its only as good as the day it was done on im afraidd...

Sorry lol little reply.

Lou x

 

[martlin]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, but vetting is like an MOT.. its only as good as the day it was done on im afraidd...

Sorry lol little reply.

Lou x

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's true, but if a vet cannot predict if the horse will stay sound, how is the seller supposed to?

 

[Nailed]

lol.. unless they are psychic they cant lol

lou x

 

[cluedo]

OK.... so how would you all feel if you brought a horse from a dealer who almost immediately started headshaking when you got it home. You tried it in the evening and the vet vetted it also in the evening.

Anyone brought a headshaker from a dealer... what did you do about it.

Only asking because it happened to me and he refused to take it back.

 

[silverstar]

Id def pursue this send them a letter demanding refund and that you'll be taking them to court unless they do so (there is a copy of one on H&H archives). Usually that does the trick. It did for me recently. I was in the same position as you

 

[Lou23]

I've recently just bought a horse from a private seller and was told she was not a head shaker. Also had her her vetted and expressed concerns about possibly head shaking and again they said she didn't headshake.
Within a couple of weeks, she started head shaking, I spoke to the vet and he said it was difficult to prove because of horse being in different area, she may not of had these symptoms in her old yard but could have a trigger in a new one.
I havant bothered contacting the old owners as she's everything i want and i'm manging the head shaking.