shoulder-in confusion

O

OrangeEmpire

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 July 2007
Messages
1,018
Location
Gloucestershire
www.equestrian-portrait.com
Hello,

I'm trying to use shoulder-in with my 5yro to build on her straightness. However she seems v confused when I ask. I clearly have been too vague up til now with my leg position as she consistently tries to turn her shoulders away from my leg, rather than maintaining the bend and bringing her inside hind leg under. Ie she is confused and thinks, where ever my leg is, that I am asking for her shoulders to turn. I've tried asking on 20m circles etc.

The aid I use is: open inside hand a little to ask for bend, close outside hand so rein touches her neck and bring inside leg back to encourage her inside hindleg to reach across.

a) is this correct
b) any suggestions for exercises we can do to teach her that I can communicate with her hind legs too....?

Thanks - I'm utterly foxed!
 
Personally id only be asking for shoulder-fore with a 5yo and not full shoulder in.

Ride a 10m circle before hand make sure she is straight and into your outside rein. Then just use your inside leg to pick up the hindleg and open your inside rein ever so slightly to bring the inside foreleg onto a slighty inside track. Make sure you are riding forwards and that there isnt really any bend in the neck, just that the hindleg is stepping under more and her inside fore is slightly on the inside track.

Hope that makes sense?
 
Hi there - am no expert but my instructor has had me gaining control of my youngster's inside hind. I go onto a small circle, focussing on say a block in the middle of the school, then apply my inside leg to get him to lift up his inside hind and step under and across his body, rather than just following the track of the inside fore. You can feel it as a longer step and with more activity. Careful that your horse doesn't confuse this though and slide out through your outside leg.

Once you've got this sorted for a few strides around a circle, then try going large and doing it in the corner, every corner. You can then build up to doing it down the long side and it will create a shoulder-fore. I found that by changing my aids slightly (don't ask me how, but I did it with my seat) I could make a decent shoulder-in out of it too.

The bonus of this is that you're not using your hands to pull them round/stop them, instead you're just using your hands to keep the horse soft in the rein.

Works perfectly with my 4-year-old but I'm probably missing something crucial in the retelling! Sorry!
 
My trainer has taught me new aids to ride shoulder in (which also apply to shoulder fore which you should definately start off with) which are the exact opposite of what I have been taught before!

Firstly, a 10m circle is ideal to set up slight inside bend and get the horse off your inside leg.
The inside leg should stay ON the girth, not behind as you are controling the shoulder, you control the quaters with your outside leg by moving it back. (I said it was the opposite to what I had always been taught!) The combination of inside bend and using your inside leg on the girth should bring the horses shoulders off the track, while your outside leg behind the girth will keep the horse straight by controlling the quaters. One of the biggest mistakes amateurs make with shoulder in/fore is they set up inside bend and think that is the horse on 3 tracks.... It isn't, you do have to bring the shoulders in off the track and maintain the quaters on the track.

The other tip he gave me is to look across to the far diagonal corner of the school, not ahead (which is where I was always told to look before!). This is one of the key things that helps bring your horse on to three tracks as it repositions your seat bones thus telling the horse where to go.

It sounds weird I know, but my shoulder in is now 100% better than before Nick taught me this way of riding it. Takes a bit of getting used to though as I keep wanting to put my inside leg back!
 
Oh, and by the way, just to clear up any confusion and to avoid people telling me I'm asking too much of a 4 year old, I hasten to add that the shoulder-in is accidental (hence why I can't tell you how it happens - just when I shift my seat during shoulder-fore I get shoulder-in!). I have to work very hard to stop it happening, which is unfortunate as I'm sure when we're more advanced and I do want it, I won't be able to get it
tongue.gif
 
I would totally agree with that, Panda. Don't move the inside leg back, but do move the outside leg back to make the bend.

Push with the inside leg, keep the front in place with the reins if you have to.

Also, don't worry about only getting one stride, then reward and go straight with a change of aids, so the horse catches on and realises it did right. When you do reward, if you did the shoulder in out of a corner for example, then go straight by going diagonally across the school

I once asked Sylvia Loch (founder memebr of the classical riding club) whether it matters when you are teaching a horse the shoulder in, if you get it wrong and messy for a start until you get the right angle, side step, etc and she said absolutely not, it's always going to be wrong and muddled for a start. Best not to worry about it too much. It's all meant to be fun anyhow!

Yeuuuucchh my dog's just thrown up...
 
Love the idea of looking at the far diagonal of the school, I will remember that as I seem to be OK on one rein for shoulder in but not the other - and I think the stiffness is me not the horse!
 
Definately inside leg AT the girth and outside leg behind.

If you take the inside leg back you are in danger of pushing the 1/4s out.

I turn the horse's shoulders by taking both hands a little to the inside. By that I mean open the inside rein a little and take the outside rein against, but not over, the neck. At the same time I mirror that with my body so that I turn my upper body slightly to the inside.
Then as the horse moves his shoulders off the track my inside leg nudges them down this inner track whilst the outside leg just lies against his side a little back from the girth to prevent the 1/4s from slipping out.

You obviously have to be ready to make little corrections along the way. You cannot just put the aids on and expect the horse to stay there as if by magic! I wish!!!
grin.gif
 
Yes, I'd agree with that totally Armhole. Sorry about your dog btw, eeewwww!

I am forever saying to pupils not to be afraid to make mistakes......it's by correcting those mistakes that we, and the horses, learn.
Obviously in a test we don't want to make mistakes but in training it's fine by me, providing we learn from them.
smile.gif
 
Ah so maybe I'm asking wrong then (as well as everything else!)...

Am certainly not expecting top notch perfection from her (particularly as i'm not 100% myself!) and am very quick to tell her she's done the right thing. Just want to add to her vocabulary!

Cheers everybody!
 
Apparently the FEI want to change the aids for shoulder-in to inside leg behind the girth. Their logic seems unclear.

Ride shoulder in by pressing down into your inside seat bone, inside leg on the girth, outside rein allowing a curve in the neck and outside leg supporting. The inside rein should be very passive.
 
[ QUOTE ]
pparently the FEI want to change the aids for shoulder-in to inside leg behind the girth

[/ QUOTE ]

Really???? How strange
confused.gif
Where did you hear this, I'd be interested in reading more?

I did notice that on the cover of the most recent BD mag. Gareth Hughes is riding what looks like shoulder in with his inside leg quite far back.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pparently the FEI want to change the aids for shoulder-in to inside leg behind the girth

[/ QUOTE ]

Really???? How strange
confused.gif
Where did you hear this, I'd be interested in reading more?

I did notice that on the cover of the most recent BD mag. Gareth Hughes is riding what looks like shoulder in with his inside leg quite far back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Random conversation with an FEI judge a couple of months ago.
You can ride it with leg back and outside leg bringing the shoulders round on the girth. Seems a very alien concept to me though!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Random conversation with an FEI judge a couple of months ago.
You can ride it with leg back and outside leg bringing the shoulders round on the girth. Seems a very alien concept to me though!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that is bizarre because that IS how i've been riding it - but as above post confirms it is confusing my horse....!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top