Show cob categories and height

[fayahm]

Dear All,

Not being in the know about cobs and watching many of the show cob classes at Hickstead this weekend has caused some confusion regarding height restrictions.
Can somebody explain why the height restrictions are between 148cms and 155cms for lightweight and heavyweight cobs but I am sure most were easily above this height as I was standing right beside them and they were bigger than my horse who is around 15.2hh.
I have looked at the conversion of cms to horse hands and 155cms is in between 15.1hh and 15.2hh.
Just some clarification please. TIA

 

[Clodagh]

They are generally enormously over height. When being measured they are put on a strict diet, unfit and their hooves trimmed to the quick. Then fattened back up and shod normally for the show ring.

 

[fayahm]

They are generally enormously over height. When being measured they are put on a strict diet, unfit and their hooves trimmed to the quick. Then fattened back up and shod normally for the show ring.

Then what is the point of the rule book if no one is adhering to it? There was one cob that was probably 15.1 and was referred to as “a lovely little horse”.
All the others approx. 25 in each class were easily around 15.3 hh and over!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Getting horses to measure in is a dark art. As Clodagh says, there are all sorts of tricks to shrink a horse.

The vet who performs the measurement is supposed to be very aware of these tricks, and to stop the measurement procedure if foul play is suspected, but still over height horses measure in .

Joint Measurement Board Limited

The Joint Measurement Board was established in 1934 to run a national scheme for the Measurement of the height of horses and ponies for the purpose of description and classification of horses and ponies for show and competition.

thejmbonline.co.uk

 

[Clodagh]

Then what is the point of the rule book if no one is adhering to it? There was one cob that was probably 15.1 and was referred to as “a lovely little horse”.
All the others approx. 25 in each class were easily around 15.3 hh and over!

As you say a correctly sized one looks like a midget. It’s just weird and pointless and causes a lot of cruelty.

 

[Cherryblossom]

I did scribe for the vet checks at our big show- the small working hunters were enormous! I’m 163cm and almost all of them were my height or taller.

 

[fayahm]

I did scribe for the vet checks at our big show- the small working hunters were enormous! I’m 163cm and almost all of them were my height or taller.

Does this mean that if I wish to show my lightweight cob who is 15hh then he will look out of place and there is very little chance of doing well? The cobs were beautifully turned out and a marvellous sight but all exceeded the height restrictions. So going forward - am I to believe that height restrictions are not important and nobody pays attention to them anyway?

 

[fetlock]

Getting horses to measure in is a dark art. As Clodagh says, there are all sorts of tricks to shrink a horse.

The vet who performs the measurement is supposed to be very aware of these tricks, and to stop the measurement procedure if foul play is suspected, but still over height horses measure in .

Joint Measurement Board Limited

The Joint Measurement Board was established in 1934 to run a national scheme for the Measurement of the height of horses and ponies for the purpose of description and classification of horses and ponies for show and competition.

thejmbonline.co.uk

You just have to look at the remeasurement section on there to see how effective or ineffective the system is.

Considering the thousands of horses and ponies who have a height certificate, only a tiny proportion ever get recalled each year. (The year of the dodgy vet scandal aside).

The cost (and palaver) of lodging an objection obviously plays a part but the various societies themselves can request a remeasurement too. Few seem to.

 

[twiggy2]

Does this mean that if I wish to show my lightweight cob who is 15hh then he will look out of place and there is very little chance of doing well? The cobs were beautifully turned out and a marvellous sight but all exceeded the height restrictions. So going forward - am I to believe that height restrictions are not important and nobody pays attention to them anyway?

Yes.
Its always been the same and is just a farce

 

[Clodagh]

Does this mean that if I wish to show my lightweight cob who is 15hh then he will look out of place and there is very little chance of doing well? The cobs were beautifully turned out and a marvellous sight but all exceeded the height restrictions. So going forward - am I to believe that height restrictions are not important and nobody pays attention to them anyway?

Sadly yes. Unless he’s 16hh and a block of lard there is no point at all.
Could you grow his mane and do working hunter? Maybe? They go up to 15hh so shouldn’t be too much bigger.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The cost (and palaver) of lodging an objection obviously plays a part but the various societies themselves can request a remeasurement too. Few seem to.

The showing societies are a complete joke, so I wouldn't rely on them effectively policing showing .

As Clodagh says, if a cob isn't 16hh and a block of lard it is unlikely to be looked at in the ring. Showing is a nonsense, and showing cobs is a complete nonsense.

 

[Spotherisk]

Re showing your cob, I expect it depends on the level you’re aiming for. Local classes should be fine, but once you’re going up through the levels you won’t do so well. My late horse was a l/w cob, 14.3hh, he did look the right type in the ring (20 years ago!) but small and without a crest or fat pads!

 

[humblepie]

My not overweight show horse measured max height. No tricks just practice relaxing with a measuring stick. OH mentioned to me how tall horse standing next to us - in first we were in second - was. I said must be standing on higher ground. Following year horse measured out on a complaint(not from us) by 6 cms. Horse was prolific winner. Horse was beautiful and beautifully schooled and in the right class deserved all his wins but made me angry that others had missed their moments of success in the right category when non horsey OH noticed straight off. Of course horses can look taller or bigger when they ride to the occasion or how low withers and without measuring you can’t know but there was a huge scandal a few years back about measuring.

 

[minesadouble]

Dodgy measuring practices have been really clamped down on in recent years, it's nowhere near as easy these days to get an overheight animal measured in. I've also noticed that more animals. I think people often overestimate the height of their own horses, we have a large livery yard and the amount of 16.2s that are nearer 15.1 in reality is quite astounding! They also always come up smaller on measuring pad than they do at home. I've just bought a pony that's measuring 14.3 on my stick but I know for a fact if I want a JMB Cert it will measure under 14.2.

On the other hand we also have one at home that is a good 14.1 but has a height Cert. for 138cm, before I even looked I guessed which Vet had issued the Cert.! That Vet is no longer authorised to measure as the JMB have also clamped down on 'dodgy' Vets now too.

 

[fetlock]

2018 there was one remeasured at just short of 17 hands.
No idea what class it was going in or was intended to go in but suffice to say it was rather large for any of them with a max height restriction.

 

[rara007]

To be fair lots of ‘15.1’ (on an old stick on a rough surfaced yard, shod and not let to relax down) are barely 14.2. People are clueless about horse heights. I’d trust one measured on a pad over an amateurs attempt at guessing. Mine was advertised at 14.2, he’s 141cm JMB! 142cm fei as there was no reason to wait longer. Our coloured measured just under 148 but proper showcob stamp- most people would have him as 15hh if asked. That then ties in to the rider weight saga. People don’t even know how big the horse is let alone the jockey!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

These horses will have been measured during the off season when they have no muscle or top line and have been roughed off for the winter. So their true basic height could well be 154/155cm. But obviously by the time you bring them in, muscle them up and put a covering of fat over them you can easily add another inch or so onto that winter measurement.

A lot of people also don't know the height of their own horses. They over estimate by miles.

I genuinely couldn't tell you how tall the Welsh cob is. He lives amongst Shetlands and I work with thoroughbreds so I would guesstimate he is around the 14/14.1hh Mark but unless I put a stick on him I really wouldn't have a clue. Basically he is in the middle of the spectrum of the other animals around me

 

[DressageCob]

I have a HW hogged cob. He's 15.2hh, not obese but built. He looked tiny next to competitors when I dabbled in cob showing. I gave up when the judge told me my horse moved too well He's obviously more suited for dressage on that basis.

 

[druid]

Very few remeasures as it costs you 1.2k to put in an objection!!! Most are remeasures on recall or cert lapses.

 

[Cortez]

I used to love judging cobs, my favourite class. But when I suggested measuring some obviously gigantic candidates I was met with horror and consternation at the very thought. Everybody knows that the height requirements are a nonsense. It's completely wrong of course, but that's showing.

P.S. I no longer judge showing classes.

 

[Scubladare]

I did scribe for the vet checks at our big show- the small working hunters were enormous! I’m 163cm and almost all of them were my height or taller.

Hi Cherryblossom, I have sent you a private message regarding something you may have for sale. Thanks,

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Dodgy measuring practices have been really clamped down on in recent years, it's nowhere near as easy these days to get an overheight animal measured in. I've also noticed that more animals. I think people often overestimate the height of their own horses, we have a large livery yard and the amount of 16.2s that are nearer 15.1 in reality is quite astounding! They also always come up smaller on measuring pad than they do at home. I've just bought a pony that's measuring 14.3 on my stick but I know for a fact if I want a JMB Cert it will measure under 14.2.

On the other hand we also have one at home that is a good 14.1 but has a height Cert. for 138cm, before I even looked I guessed which Vet had issued the Cert.! That Vet is no longer authorised to measure as the JMB have also clamped down on 'dodgy' Vets now too.

Considering that 16.2hh is a pretty standard size horse, and he's not that wide, I find myself saying a lot 'he's just your normal 16.2' when people point out how large he looks.
Albeit he's suddenly 16.3 on the tape as of yesterday, not sure when that happened! We had an agreement....