Showing fear through aggression

[Footlights]

I would like to hear from anyone who has worked with a horse who has shown fear through aggression - but only to people, not other horses.

I am not talking about ears back and nipping, I am talking about biting, kicking, attacking etc

- Did you know why they acted in this way? i.e. abuse from previous owner

- Did you manage to overcome it, and how?

- Did you receive professional help/advice?

- Where was the horse in the pecking order of the herd?

- Do you know the horse now? Does it still show some signs of aggression?

Thank you

 

[fburton]

A few, unfortunately. Sometimes it wasn't possible to say what caused it, but previous poor handling is at the top of the list of underlying causes (and was often suspected). Overcome to varying degrees with lots of patient, sensitive, fair and consistent handling - not always to the extent that the horse or pony was entirely trustworthy. No professional advice, just going on instinct and experience. Pecking order not considered an important factor.

Interesting that fearful people show aggression too, though I would say it is much more of a learned coping mechanism in horses, i.e. aggressive displays usually get people out of the way, if only temporarily.

 

[Littlelegs]

Yes, two in particular spring to mind.
First one was a yearling who had issues with strangers. Would chase anyone in the field, or kick/ bite if you tried to do anything she was unsure of. Like that because an idiot kept her alone of any company whatsoever in an isolated field from being weaned at 3 months. Pony had learnt to defend herself in the absence of a herd, plus all the other important skills learnt from company.
Yes, we've overcome it. Putting her with my mare who's a fab nanny & treating her like a foal at foot in terms of handling for a year. Shes always had a soft spot for my daughter, presumably as she's too small to be a threat. Just really spent from 1-3 letting her realise she doesn't have to look after herself anymore. Only help as such was my mare who's an alpha mothering her & young company to play. Pecking order at the bottom currently, but not submissive at all, pushes it a lot, only truly respectful of my mare herd wise.
Pony will be 5 this year & a fantastic 2nd pony for my 7yr old. She still has her moments if a stranger does something out of the ordinary, eg with farriers apprentice. On the whole fine, just extremely quick to read body language for threatening behavior, I'd say now its just a case of her being more fight than flight, far from aggressive.
Other was a tb who'd been battered who was on a yard I worked on. He was fine when I knew him as long as he didn't feel you were aggressive he had little to fear. If you tied him up short, shouted or tried to restrict him, he would have gone for you. If you ignored his face pulling & tail swishing he'd relax. He was a real alpha male, & a dressage schoolmaster.

 

[kcoop86]

Hi, i bought (as i felt sorry for it at the sales ring lol) a very emaciated, injured 2yo colt. He had been very badly treated (beaten around the head, ear twitched, heamatomas etc etc), he was a nightmare from the second i spotted him lol. I own the scars from his behavouir! (excuse my spelling!). I would consider myself to be a very weathered experienced horse person but with this one i had to have a good friend come to the stables with me for feeds etc just incase an ambulance was needed. He would go out of his way to aggressively attack me, even in open spaces, he'd torn through clothing, skin and muscle and tossed me in the air lol. I wouldnt be without my lad now, he's just turning 4. It took ALOT of time and patience never rushing him, i never raised a hand to him, i stayed firm using my voice and body language and trying very hard to show no fear lol. He is my little angel now allthough he has trust issues, he will only let me do anything with him ie rug, catch, bit, back etc etc, allthough he will let my children walk him around like a puppy and i trust him 100% with them! Yesterday he let me rug him without needing to put a rope on him 1st for the first time and after all we've been through getting to these little milestones im like a proud mum im very proud of him. Ive worked with dangerous horses but he was by far the worst, it seemed to take forever at the time, but hes a doll now and shows if he can overcome these issues then there are alot more that can!
He was at the time at bottom of the pecking order but now his confidence has grown he is top of the pecking order! but never shows aggression to humans anymore, if hes scared of someone (norm men) he walks away.
Also he was kept a colt until he was mid 3 - 4 as i didnt want to put him through the stress of gelding at the time until i believed he was ready.

 

[Footlights]

Wow, very interesting stories, thank you fo sharing - and keep them coming!

Kcoop86, can I ask you how you used your voice and body language while he was being aggressive without intimidating him more?

 

[YasandCrystal]

My WB was like this. He would always try to bite you even when you hung onto his head; he would then try to kick you, then he started striking and rearing and he meant it. He almost picked me up by my shoulder once. He always lunged at you at the stable door, like a viper. He was very close to being pts on several occasions, but I just couldn't do it to a 5 yr old.

I found out he was abused on the ground - punched in the face for being aggressive and whipped from behind in a stable and ridden abused.

It was a viscious circle, because I finally had him diagnosed with chronic SI dysfunction which he has likely had for a long time, so he was in constant pain making him irritable. I wouldn't accept that this aggression towards people could be normal behaviour for a flight animal. He was chastised for being irritable/aggressive, which made him understandably more agressive. He ended up double barrelling a groom breaking her arm in 3 places and was sold to a dealer. He was sold on again and I was conned by the seller.
I put him on a calmer - RelaxMe - First Horse make it and always kept a very consistent routine. I never took chances with him and still don't really.
I was advised that 'fear aggression' is the most dangerous as it is so unpredictable.
Once my horse was diagnosed and treated and had rehab he changed dramatically. He is no longer aggressive to humans - well not for the past 9 months. He reared at his freeze branding but it was not in a threatening way - he was just scared and showed it whereas previously he would have tried to have got the handler.
I also had a couple of ACs done which really helped and confirmed his past and his at that time undiagnosed injury. Worth every penny imo.

I must add - I would 'growl' at my horse, but I never hit him. The one time I chastised him for biting, trying to kick and tehn striiking at me whilst I rugged him - he bit me so badly through several layers of clothing. I screamed at him then I was in such pain and he looked shocked and horrified at what he had done. I used a dually headcollar and I did some clicker training to get him to back away and respect my space. A friend who is great with NH techniques did a lot of groundwork with him and he responded brilliantly to that. Very firm but fair handling.

 

[Pale Rider]

I've sorted two horses which were agressive towards people.

Both were very unconfident horses and as soon as they became fearful, for whatever reason, very often known only to themselves would attack.

Whatever technique you choose to use, it can only really be done by building trust, confidence and leadership.

Well, it works leadership, confidence then you get the trust.

 

[Footlights]

Both were very unconfident horses and as soon as they became fearful, for whatever reason, very often known only to themselves would attack.

Whatever technique you choose to use, it can only really be done by building trust, confidence and leadership.

Well, it works leadership, confidence then you get the trust.

Completely agree - confidence is definitely a huge factor in fear/aggression. Can I ask what technique you chose to use?

 

[spike123]

my horse came to me as very aggressive. I don't know his past history but given his scarring I suspect he had been abused. He still doesn't like people going near him with wheelbarrows and will still bite anyone who goes near him in the stable apart from me and the YO. I also suspect he had gotten away with alot in his past. The people I brought him from had owned him for 7 months but I suspect they got rid because they couldn't handle him. When I first had him he would bite when near his front end, kick if you went near his back end and I mean kick as in chase you with his back end not just strike out. If you went into his stable he would turn his bottom on you and lash out. It took a session of join up which started out very scarily as he was aiming both barrels at me for a good 15 to 20 minutes before he started to show signs of willingness to comply and from then on although he still would pull faces and attempt to nip rather than full on bite he was at least prepared to listen to me which I think definitely helped. I can now 3.5yrs down the line do anything with him and he will allow me to clip him all over where as he still won't accept anyone else near him with a grooming brush other than on his neck. He is however not aggressive out on the yard with people he knows, although with strangers he can be. I guess I was consistent in the way I handled him and what I expected of him, have always been firm but fair and realise he is the sort that will take the mick at the first sign of worry on the part of a handler. There are still people on the yard now who don't go near him and that he knows he can intimidate. With other horses he is fairly low down the pecking order and will very quickly back down and seems to try to avoid trouble rather than being in the thick of it. He is however very playful with other horses. He is good to catch for me and the YO but nobody else handles him apart from us so can't really say if he is good for others. I would think probably not due to his aggressive streak with those he doesn't trust. I have done all the work myself and believe me there were times I really did wonder what I was doing and very nearly threw the towel in on more than one occassion. However I'm glad I stuck by him and now have a fantastic relationship with my horse that people who knew him in the early days are amazed by.