SHYSMUM..my experiences on livery yards, uk

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Allie374

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To cut a very long story short, i am going to write an amazon book. About the terrible ordeals i went through on livery yards whilst i have owned Shy.

I know how lucky we are to be out of them altogether now. Trust me, i pinch myself every day that i am here, with my own land, in France. I am bipolar, and this was hubs cunning plan to save my mental health....but i know so many other liveries i have met are also on the brink.

But i feel very, very strongly about the poor service i received on the six yards i was on in the n.e. i posted a fb post with a few details, if i find it i will copy it here. Serious stuff tbh.

I really believe that it is about time that ALL LIVERY YARDS ARE INSPECTED, the same as riding schools. Farmer diversification. A lot to answer for i.m.h.o.

Rant over. Allie x
 
I think that it is a good idea to have livery yards inspected in the same way riding schools are. However not sure I would read a book about livery yard experiences, I am sure many yard owners could also come up with similar nightmare stories. At the end of the day they are a collection of people who have quite firm ideas about how their horses are kept. When these ideas align, it's great (and of the 6 yards I have been on in nearly 40 years of horse ownership, I have had pretty good experiences). When ideas don't align, it can be hell for all concerned. Good luck with your book though. :) x
 
Inspections would be good, but would only apply to 'official' or registered yards. It seems to me that the vast majority of DIY yards are not known as such and are private yards, or a part of farms etc
 
I personally believe all livery yards should be regulated now. After all, health and safety is everything, and trust me, we have been put in serious danger.

For example, at one yard, shy was in overnight as he was under the weather. I came down early the next morning to find.... wait for it..... A SCAFFOLD POLE 1 FOOT FROM THE MIDDLE OF HIS STABLE DOOR. With him obviously inside. I had to lift a very heavy door off its hinges, and get his hinds round said pole. What if there had been a fire ? And nope, twas the y.o. not the scaffolders.. they protested about doing it. I had to lift on and off said door for a good month.

I must try and find the long fb rant i wrote.

Maybe as a pensioner rspca inspector i feel so strongly. But the last yard i was on, in teesdale was brilliant, cannot stress that i will give the good and the bad, without any names. Just the teesdale, north yorks area.

A yard is only as good as the yard owner. The good should have nothing to worry about.
 
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The yard I'm on is BHS approved, so is inspected by a body who ought to know how to look after a horse. They also have to have a H&S inspection for insurance purposes I believe, so again knowledgable inspections do take place. Having said that, I know people who have been on none "approved" yards which were private yards or other such establishments and standards do vary considerably. If you've had enough bad experiences to make a whole book about them then it might make good reading. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on here who could give you plenty of material to add to it. Good luck with it and I'm pleased you're now happily settled in your new home.
 
If you're in France and want to see some poor practice pop along to any yard there, all pretty grim in my experience. Treatment of animals In France is widely known to be poor but yards with no turnout and rows of stables is commonplace, most odd when property and land is sooo cheap,it's a lifestyle choice but not one I would support. Here ive been lucky I guess.
 
I'm also not convinced that inspecting every yard in the country would be a good use of time or resources and I don't think they'd necessarily solve livery/YO conflicts which are often based on different philosophies on horse keeping.
I know people who've had horrible times at livery but equally those who have horrible times at work/the gym/clubs/with their neighbours/at school, I'm not demeaning your bad experiences I'm just not convinced it's a livery yard issue, just a 'people are people'/society issue.
Hope the books a success though and glad you've found a port after a storm.
 
I am only talking about 6 yards, but it makes my hair stand on end when i think what i went thru. Will be a short "report" but i need to say it. Not least the bullying.
 
Trust me, as a former rspca, NOTHING WILL EVER TOP AUSTRALIA for animal abuse. Nothing. I was going to volunteer as an Inspector there, but after a month.

To cut a long story short, the was an "out of hours cage for unwanted animals". Yeah right. Cattle dogs in with kittens, never seen anything like it. But my littlef campaign scrapped it , so hapoy.

So france aint easy but....

Anyway, my point is firmly yards in the north uk, and just my personal experiences on them, whilst paying them a second mortgage for crap services.
 
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Some yards are a disgrace, falling apart, dangerously unstable buildings etc & those yards would not pass examinationt. Some yards are not in particular good repair but the people love the horses & the care they give is as good as it gets. The biggest problem I believe are good well maintained yards that have plenty of facilities but the YOs or Managers who run them are mentally unhinged! They put on a good face when the visitors come, just like they did when you visited yourselves to view the yard with the intention of bringing you horse. All was fine then but they can't keep up the pretence & revert to type and continually move the goal posts, constantly bring in new rules & show bizarre conduct & decisions which eventually forces you to leave. These types will never be found out on an annual inspection.
 
And my personal experiences of said yards, nothing else. If nothing else, to get it out of my system... after failing to get help from authorities who should no better. Think kids being driven around mid yard in the bucket of a bulldozer, stable walls falling in, severe colic poo pooed by y.o who knew better...

A y.o who ACTUALLY CHARGED ME £2 TO FIX MY WHEELBARROW WITH TWO BOLTS, unasked..... for my use only, yeah right. Wtf ? I was so scared of her, i paid....
 
Toby z.... but they will be if liveries are finally given a voice somehow. Maybe a survey, i have no idea. I know riding school inspections are "by appointment". Haha !

Rspca inspections were obviously never like that, and spot checks on riding and livery yards would uncover a huge amount. But no local authority has that sort of money, or will.

So liveries go on paying out for crap service.

What about trading standards ? Any thoughts ? Must contact them about this.
 
A lot of the problem is that people keep paying to stay on poorly run yards. If their customers were prepared to move and take their custom elsewhere then the problem would be largely solved imo
 
I hav had horses for over 30 years - all kept at livery yards (mostly DIY, but one on full livery), and I can honestly say I have never had any problems with the yard. Yes, occasionally you do get a bitchy livery, but I just ignore them.

I am sure that I am not the only person who doesn't have any issues with livery yards so am very confused why there is so much ranting about them.
 
YorksG said:
A lot of the problem is that people keep paying to stay on poorly run yards. If their customers were prepared to move and take their custom elsewhere then the problem would be largely solved imo
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^This. Of course, people aren't happy to pay a fair price for livery - these poor yards and YOs only exist because people are prepared to put up with them. No point moaning about them - if we all voted with our feet and treated our livery like any other business arrangement - which means sticking to rules and contracts, paying on time, etc - things would improve dramatically.
 
I'm sorry but if you have had the same problem with 6 different yards maybe you need to consider part of the problem is you! I've been on 5 yards over 15 years and honestly only the first one was really bad and I grew up there so didn't know any better. I love my current yard and really liked one I was on in the north east too. I've never had major fallouts with yard owners and would be welcome back on any of the yards. The ones I moved from didn't suit me and my horse(s) at the time for various reasons, but they weren't awful!

There will be differences of opinion on a yard, there will be practises you don't agree with but I really think most yards are mostly ok!

I honestly think people who have constant problems on different livery yards are either very difficult to get on with personally and so cause issues themselves or unable to ask the right questions and view a yard sensibly so end up on a yard with unsuitable facilities.
 
I may not have explained myself very well !

I am just writing about my personal experiences on the six yards Shy and i have been on, good and bad. And put into words some of the things that happened to us.

A personal blog really.
 
IF equines were actually classified in the UK, then that would be a help!
They are not agrigultural (except working farm horses - rare!) not pets.....

Then any livery would come under either: The boarding of animals act (as per dog/cat boarding) or agricultural welfare by DEFRA.

Unless regulated, then there will always be problems.

Also, I accept that there will always be problem yards and bad keeping of horses despite any regulations (just look at passporting for example)

OP, perhaps its not going to help you long term to look back so much - why not enjoy what you DO have now? :)
 
EllenJay said:
I hav had horses for over 30 years - all kept at livery yards (mostly DIY, but one on full livery), and I can honestly say I have never had any problems with the yard. Yes, occasionally you do get a bitchy livery, but I just ignore them.

I am sure that I am not the only person who doesn't have any issues with livery yards so am very confused why there is so much ranting about them.
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I think you might have just been incredibly lucky, or just didn't see or hear what other people did - lucky you in that case too!

I used two yards in the 18 years I had my horse. One was a RS with liveries tagged on which was basically ok if you weren't too fussy and the YO and YM were experienced people. The RS always took priority. The other was a farm which was diversifying. Again, ok on the surface but a closer inspection showed the stables were pretty jerry built with decidedly dodgy electrics (in fact the entire property was rewired just before I left and the electricians told me it was a miracle there hadn't been a major incident :( ), the yard wasn't well thought out or planned, they kept trying to bring in more horses than they had land for and the YO didn't know much about horses really and was easily swayed by the more vocal liveries who were classic I'm Alright Jack characters. But on the other side of the equation some of the liveries would make your hair curl. There was the family who used to steal feed and bedding - from each other, another family who had way more horses than they could afford to keep and ran up livery and haylage bills in three figures, the family who claimed they had been chucked off at no notice from another yard because they complained about another livery stealing from them - turned out THEY were the ones who had been stealing (and robbed us as well when the truth came out and they were given notice), and if that wasn't bad enough the horses were often left with no hay, young animals being whipped and screamed at by teenage daughters, and absolutely the worst, one of the liveries riding by one day saw the father in his van being given a BJ by the friend of his eldest daughter - in broad daylight and right by the yard gate!!! Then there was the one who owned two, was carrying on with every man she could get her hands on (her husband was a very nice chap but completely dominated by her I think) and went away on a dirty weekend leaving the horses in their stables and no arrangements to care for them, the one who brought two on who apparently never went out because they were elderly and had arthritis (?) and only cleaned out their sparsely bedded stables once a week, so those poor animals lay in their own filth all week with next to nothing to eat and filthy or no water because they had soiled it or knocked it over. It turned out that the reason they could hardly walk because they only saw a farrier a couple of time A YEAR and had feet that looked like duck bills. One of the was indeed old, the other when I looked at his teeth was under 9. Oh yes, and then there was the one who "bedded" her cob on sawdust, lied constantly about worming him and when he was finally wormed under supervision had the most explosive pooping session - all over the field because she refused to keep him in after. It is worth noting that both yards were on the edge of suburbia and many of the liveries were townies with no background in keeping horses (ie. family support/knowledge) and also had bought very cheap animals at the local market. One girl had two lovely foals, decent quality purebreds but when they got bigger than being cutsie little foaly whoalies she got bored and just left them to grow like weeds in the field with no education and barely any handling. The last I heard she had passed them to a 15 year old friend who was going to break them in for her.

Oh dear, I think I've had a better rant than the OP!
 
I think you have all been unlucky or put up with a crap yard?

I have been at MANY yards (over 10) over the years, you always get characters but the answer is if it is not dealt with to move with your money and feet!

Never had a yard "I had to leave" because of H&S issues or bullying? - no yard is ever perfect however if some of these yards were not fit for purpose why go there in the first place!

I think regulating anything like this will be a huge waste of money, time consuming and essentially we the end consumer would end up paying for it.

Glad to say I don't have this worry anymore I rent a field next to my house but would go back on livery if I could afford it as I miss the great people.
 
Allie374 said:
Toby z.... but they will be if liveries are finally given a voice somehow. Maybe a survey, i have no idea. I know riding school inspections are "by appointment". Haha !

Rspca inspections were obviously never like that, and spot checks on riding and livery yards would uncover a huge amount. But no local authority has that sort of money, or will.

So liveries go on paying out for crap service.

What about trading standards ? Any thoughts ? Must contact them about this.
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Riding school inspections are by appointment as we have to have every horse in, groomed and tacked up for the inspecting vet who gives each horse a basic vetting - heart, eyes, soundness. And he brings with him the H&S bod from the council who does the grounds, machinery, fire risk assessment etc. So not something you could do unannounced!

The BHS - if you are a registered livery yard or riding school - do a random, unannounced walk in inspection. (For RS I know this is once every 2 years, and on the other year it is booked as they watch lessons taking place etc, again not something you can do on the fly!)
 
I think fatpiggy summed it up. Bad yards exist, not only because of bad/clueless YOs but also because of bad liveries. They don't care what state the yard is in as long as it is cheap. Too many cheap/free horses on the market for selfish, clueless people to abuse, too many YOs who don't care or know enough to care as long as they get £20 a week. How do you regulate the owners? I've been on some great livery yards, the two I enjoyed being on, I was on for seven years, another for nearly eight. The ones I hated, I left within weeks. The kind of yards fatpiggy describes, well, frankly, I would rather sell my horse than livery on them. The reason why I love ebing on my own land so much now, is that a) We can now afford to keep more than one horse so my kids can have an animal of their own, and b) we can now afford to get transport and compete. I was paying out so much on livery and riding lessons for myself and two children, it just wasn't an option at livery. But my horses care was NEVER compromised, or the safety of my young children.
 
Cheap doesn't always mean terrible. I used to livery at a farm for £12 a week DIY and it was a fabulous yard. The worst yard I was on was a much, much more expensive BHS approved place (CM was on part livery there) and it was horrendous.

On both yards I had a horse have an accident while I wasn't there. The farm phoned me as soon as they noticed that something was wrong and told me to phone the vet before coming over as they had already had a good look at her and realised that it was a vet job. The approved yard tried to cover up that anything had happened at all, closed ranks when I asked why my horse was bleeding from her mouth and covered in cuts, then they got pissy when I called the vet. I never got to the bottom of what actually happened and left.

So IME price means sod all. It's all about the people and their priorities.
 
indiat said:
I think fatpiggy summed it up. Bad yards exist, not only because of bad/clueless YOs but also because of bad liveries. They don't care what state the yard is in as long as it is cheap. Too many cheap/free horses on the market for selfish, clueless people to abuse, too many YOs who don't care or know enough to care as long as they get £20 a week. How do you regulate the owners? I've been on some great livery yards, the two I enjoyed being on, I was on for seven years, another for nearly eight. The ones I hated, I left within weeks. The kind of yards fatpiggy describes, well, frankly, I would rather sell my horse than livery on them. The reason why I love ebing on my own land so much now, is that a) We can now afford to keep more than one horse so my kids can have an animal of their own, and b) we can now afford to get transport and compete. I was paying out so much on livery and riding lessons for myself and two children, it just wasn't an option at livery. But my horses care was NEVER compromised, or the safety of my young children.
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The trouble is around my area, the yards I went on were amongst the best- there wasn't anywhere better to move to and as it was the second one was 17 miles from home and 9 miles from work so my daily commute with two visits to hoss was over 50 miles and took me 3 hours. And as for selling my horse, who would have taken on one with a life-threatening illness that cost over £500 a month just for drugs?

But I know what you mean.
 
I'm lucky my present DIY yard is good but I have been to a couple of awful ones, the farmers would leave gates open while checking their sheep on quad bikes, my pony and his friend ran out only then to be chased along the lane in the pitch black by the farmer on his quad bike, my pony slipped over and was lame for a a couple of weeks. I wasn't told by the farmer but a fellow livery who witnessed it.
 
julie111 said:
I'm lucky my present DIY yard is good but I have been to a couple of awful ones, the farmers would leave gates open while checking their sheep on quad bikes, my pony and his friend ran out only then to be chased along the lane in the pitch black by the farmer on his quad bike, my pony slipped over and was lame for a a couple of weeks. I wasn't told by the farmer but a fellow livery who witnessed it.
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There is often a supply and demand issue, DIY livery doesn’t make much money, so there aren’t that many good yards to choose from in some areas.

I have been at yards with significant maintenance issues, with long waiting lists. But that offered all year turnout in large fields, on sandy soil. You have to pick your evils!

For some people the choices of yards can be limited, and if yard owner knows you won’t leave, you are relying on good will for them to maintain fields / mend fencing / fix stables / maintain school etc.

It is all very well saying vote with your feet. But you firstly have to be able to find somewhere else to go, and secondly you need to be able to find somewhere that will be an improvement in your horse’s welfare.
 
fatpiggy said:
I think you might have just been incredibly lucky, or just didn't see or hear what other people did - lucky you in that case too!

I used two yards in the 18 years I had my horse. One was a RS with liveries tagged on which was basically ok if you weren't too fussy and the YO and YM were experienced people. The RS always took priority. The other was a farm which was diversifying. Again, ok on the surface but a closer inspection showed the stables were pretty jerry built with decidedly dodgy electrics (in fact the entire property was rewired just before I left and the electricians told me it was a miracle there hadn't been a major incident :( ), the yard wasn't well thought out or planned, they kept trying to bring in more horses than they had land for and the YO didn't know much about horses really and was easily swayed by the more vocal liveries who were classic I'm Alright Jack characters. But on the other side of the equation some of the liveries would make your hair curl. There was the family who used to steal feed and bedding - from each other, another family who had way more horses than they could afford to keep and ran up livery and haylage bills in three figures, the family who claimed they had been chucked off at no notice from another yard because they complained about another livery stealing from them - turned out THEY were the ones who had been stealing (and robbed us as well when the truth came out and they were given notice), and if that wasn't bad enough the horses were often left with no hay, young animals being whipped and screamed at by teenage daughters, and absolutely the worst, one of the liveries riding by one day saw the father in his van being given a BJ by the friend of his eldest daughter - in broad daylight and right by the yard gate!!! Then there was the one who owned two, was carrying on with every man she could get her hands on (her husband was a very nice chap but completely dominated by her I think) and went away on a dirty weekend leaving the horses in their stables and no arrangements to care for them, the one who brought two on who apparently never went out because they were elderly and had arthritis (?) and only cleaned out their sparsely bedded stables once a week, so those poor animals lay in their own filth all week with next to nothing to eat and filthy or no water because they had soiled it or knocked it over. It turned out that the reason they could hardly walk because they only saw a farrier a couple of time A YEAR and had feet that looked like duck bills. One of the was indeed old, the other when I looked at his teeth was under 9. Oh yes, and then there was the one who "bedded" her cob on sawdust, lied constantly about worming him and when he was finally wormed under supervision had the most explosive pooping session - all over the field because she refused to keep him in after. It is worth noting that both yards were on the edge of suburbia and many of the liveries were townies with no background in keeping horses (ie. family support/knowledge) and also had bought very cheap animals at the local market. One girl had two lovely foals, decent quality purebreds but when they got bigger than being cutsie little foaly whoalies she got bored and just left them to grow like weeds in the field with no education and barely any handling. The last I heard she had passed them to a 15 year old friend who was going to break them in for her.

Oh dear, I think I've had a better rant than the OP!
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Reading your experiences, I am neither "lucky" or "oblivious", just sensible. I would never livery at a R/S - too many random people around, and livery is not the main wage earner, and the second yard if they were over sub-scribed to start with I would have avoided immediately, and if after I moved in they started to bring in more horses I would have walked away.
 
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