si joint or kissing spines or something else?

Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
Hey everyone! lately my horse has been having some problems

so here’s a quick timeline and information
he’s a 15 year old grey appendix gelding stands about 16.1 hands, used to be a lesson horse, hunter/jumper prospect, free jumps around 4’

when purchased we did a ppe, with flexion tests, he passed very well with the slight detail that he has external melanomas (he’s a grey)

we got him a year ago, muscled upside down and slightly underweight, he’s nursed back to health and his muscles are looking very good / doesn’t walk around hollow anymore

he went lame because our farrier trimmed him too short so he got special shoes

he got chiropracted after 4 months of us owning him just because he was a little stiff - it did miracles and he was walking a lot better!

he began to have slight problems with the canter (just unbalanced) but we had expected that as normal because he was using new muscles, quickly fixed and he was doing great. introduced to lead changes.

10 months in he starts to act up a little, tossing his head when anticipating canter, when asked for canter he’d buck and take off.

so this was weird, so we checked his back and sore enough he was pretty sore, he would dip as his lumbar area (back end) was touched and would twitch as if he had flys on him when touched by withers.
we checked the saddle fit as this was our first thought by our saddle fitter, it fit very nicely.

we started to do some stretches and lunge on the pessoa and just working long and low and he seemed to be a little less sore.

chiropractor coming out thursday.

any ideas??
 
Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
Has a vet seen him?
no not yet, we thought we would have the chiropractor come first. (oh i forgot to mention) after doing stretches and lunging in the pessoa, my trainer got on and he was great (no bucking, no hollowing) and cantered around really nicely.
I’m kind of unsure what the vet should look for/do? would it be a full lameness exam? where would they need to take xrays?
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
16,555
If you are in the UK, then legally, because you are investigating a known issue, a vet should see the horse before the therapist. You tell the vet the symptoms. The vet decides where to look and what to do.

What did your chiropractor say today?
 
Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
If you are in the UK, then legally, because you are investigating a known issue, a vet should see the horse before the therapist. You tell the vet the symptoms. The vet decides where to look and what to do.

What did your chiropractor say today?
Hi!
we are in the USA, should’ve mentioned sorry! chiropractor said that she would be shocked if the horse had either issue. his spine was out, his poll, jaw, sternum and hind end was out as well. we were allowed to ride 24 hours later so we did. he felt a lot better but still tense under saddle and angry tail swishing. our saddle fit & the only thing she said is that he might be a subject for jock injections and might be getting arthritis in his hocks
 
Joined
28 June 2016
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Location
Canberra, Australia
I have a horse who was retired from competition with sacroiliac issues. My (excellent) vet flexion tested him, watched him worked on the lunge, on the straight and under saddle. He felt up and down his back and identified the problem area and ultrasounded it. There we saw the problem. Personally I find a good vet is the most effective person to get to the root of a problem. You just tell them the problems and they will know where and how to investigate. Good luck.
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
16,555
Hi!
we are in the USA, should’ve mentioned sorry! chiropractor said that she would be shocked if the horse had either issue. his spine was out, his poll, jaw, sternum and hind end was out as well. we were allowed to ride 24 hours later so we did. he felt a lot better but still tense under saddle and angry tail swishing. our saddle fit & the only thing she said is that he might be a subject for jock injections and might be getting arthritis in his hocks
So, he is 'out' all over the place because his hocks hurt. I'm afraid you wasted your money on the chiropractor, because the vet would have spotted that straight away as it's so common, and now you still need the vet. That's why what your chiro did isn't legal in this country (not that it doesn't happen!). I hope the vet can help when he visits.
 
Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
So, he is 'out' all over the place because his hocks hurt. I'm afraid you wasted your money on the chiropractor, because the vet would have spotted that straight away as it's so common, and now you still need the vet. That's why what your chiro did isn't legal in this country (not that it doesn't happen!). I hope the vet can help when he visits.
thank you. usually here it’s common for a chiropractor to come out before, especially if you think they’re sore (he used to be quite hollow, and now he’s nice and round and using muscles he’s never had to before, so we figured we’d give it a go.) Thanks! Just wondering- would his hocks create this issue? his bucking & not willing to go foreword into a bigger trot/canter and when sore having a subtle lameness?
 
Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
I have a horse who was retired from competition with sacroiliac issues. My (excellent) vet flexion tested him, watched him worked on the lunge, on the straight and under saddle. He felt up and down his back and identified the problem area and ultrasounded it. There we saw the problem. Personally I find a good vet is the most effective person to get to the root of a problem. You just tell them the problems and they will know where and how to investigate. Good luck.
thanks so much!
 

ycbm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2015
Messages
16,555
thank you. usually here it’s common for a chiropractor to come out before, especially if you think they’re sore (he used to be quite hollow, and now he’s nice and round and using muscles he’s never had to before, so we figured we’d give it a go.) Thanks! Just wondering- would his hocks create this issue? his bucking & not willing to go foreword into a bigger trot/canter and when sore having a subtle lameness?

Absolutely yes. It's typical behaviour of a horse who is not using his hocks properly and is sore either in the hocks themselves or in the body because he's holding tension to avoid hurting the hocks. If x rays don't show anything, ask your vet to scan the suspensories for PSD, which is more subtle and often missed. They might nerve block to find where the lameness is coming from first, or it may be obvious to them to start with the hocks, since your chiro can see it.
 
Joined
22 January 2017
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82
PSD!

Vets don't always get it right either...

Experienced the same issues as you describe, was recommended a specialist sportshorse vet who did full work-up, scoped for ulcers, x-rayed spine, diagnosed and operated on kissing spine and treated SI as well... no improvement months later after post-op re-hab. Own local vet looked at the pre-op x-rays, said he'd not have diagnosed KS and it was normal for the horse's type, scanned hocks and sure enough... PSD. PSD treated with shockwave, rest and rehab, and horse is now back in normal work.

I cannot understand why vets don't automatically scan for PSD when presented with these issues; it's no more difficult or expensive than scoping for ulcers or x-raying spine. Of course, I know that now, but did not know previously.

Moral of the tale... when doing a full investigation, insist on hock scan.
 
Joined
19 January 2019
Messages
8
Absolutely yes. It's typical behaviour of a horse who is not using his hocks properly and is sore either in the hocks themselves or in the body because he's holding tension to avoid hurting the hocks. If x rays don't show anything, ask your vet to scan the suspensories for PSD, which is more subtle and often missed. They might nerve block to find where the lameness is coming from first, or it may be obvious to them to start with the hocks, since your chiro can see it.
Thank you so so much! Our vet is coming out monday.
 
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