Siamese - for my sins

[P3LH]

As title suggests, thinking of adding a Siamese to the gang for my sins - as pointy ears, noisy, stubborn and opinionated as my type in dogs clearly transcends to felines too.

My grandparents had them but that was a lifetime ago, and tentatively researching breeders shows that some lines have changed quite a bit in temperament and behaviour as well as looks.

Reached out to a couple of breeders - mine field, they don’t like you to have enquired with anyone else which is something I’ve found curious. So that’s proving interesting in terms of just trying to speak about the breed.

Have some experience of them as I say, and have researched on and off for years now - but it’s never been quite right and then someone else has come along and filled feline vacancies for different reasons.

I know a few people are devotees on here, what are your experiences of them? And I’m especially to know what made you choose a Siamese and/or return to have more? I always think that’s very telling to see if a breed is the right fit for you (disclaimer - we think they are, otherwise wouldn’t be thinking of getting one! There’s just a few things that I’m not ‘quite’ sure on, and this place is always a font of all lived experience)

 

[Burnttoast]

Not very helpful as I know relatively little about Siamese except that I don't really like the appearance of the 'modern' breed compared with the traditional lines, but I do know and love Abyssinians, if you fancied a look at something a bit different. Huge personalities, lots of fun and all seem to have fantastic temperaments. I find them incredibly beautiful too.

 

[DirectorFury]

I had one that I inherited from my father-in-law. She was an old-fashioned type and lived to approx 22yo -- very healthy and robust until her kidneys gave up the ghost. She ruled the household with an iron paw and was a pretty difficult cat to get along with unless she decided you were her person. We lost her over 2 years ago and I still miss her dreadfully, she took a piece of my heart with her that I'll never get back.

I'd love another one, but I dislike the extreme appearance of the modern lines, and they have lots of health problems with various blood cancers, early onset kidney issues, and teeth issues. Some breeders of the old-fashioned style Siamese still exist, but the gene pool is more restricted than I'm comfortable with.

 

[P3LH]

I had one that I inherited from my father-in-law. She was an old-fashioned type and lived to approx 22yo -- very healthy and robust until her kidneys gave up the ghost. She ruled the household with an iron paw and was a pretty difficult cat to get along with unless she decided you were her person. We lost her over 2 years ago and I still miss her dreadfully, she took a piece of my heart with her that I'll never get back.

I'd love another one, but I dislike the extreme appearance of the modern lines, and they have lots of health problems with various blood cancers, early onset kidney issues, and teeth issues. Some breeders of the old-fashioned style Siamese still exist, but the gene pool is more restricted than I'm comfortable with.

The gene pool of the latter is something OH and I are a little worried about, I must be honest. It would be that type we would lean toward, or something in between.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I loved my Siamese and he was totally devoted to me…following me to the loo…sitting on me like a big furry brooch..sleeping under the duvet with me…he was vocal and was 18 when he was put to sleep….I miss him.

 

[DirectorFury]

The gene pool of the latter is something OH and I are a little worried about, I must be honest. It would be that type we would lean toward, or something in between.

The only breeders I’ve found with a gene pool that’s a proper pool and not a puddle are generally based in the USA and I couldn’t put a kitten through the trauma of an international flight in good conscience.

One thing to be aware of in a lot of bloodlines, both modern and old-style, is behavioural issues. Pica is very very common (Madge ruined many a pair of wool socks), as is inappropriate/stress-related urination. They are generally quite high-strung cats and they need to be active to burn some of it off. Madge was a prolific murderer under she retired at 18, one summer she managed 3-4 massive rats a day for months on end! Other memorable “gifts” include a stoat and a mostly alive (and very p1ssed off!) magpie that she somehow shoved through the cat flap.

I absolutely adored that cat, and it feels fitting to end my time with the breed with her — no other will ever come close, and it would be unfair on another to expect them to try. You’ll never have a better companion if you get a good one, but it makes the loss so much harder.

 

[P3LH]

The only breeders I’ve found with a gene pool that’s a proper pool and not a puddle are generally based in the USA and I couldn’t put a kitten through the trauma of an international flight in good conscience.

One thing to be aware of in a lot of bloodlines, both modern and old-style, is behavioural issues. Pica is very very common (Madge ruined many a pair of wool socks), as is inappropriate/stress-related urination. They are generally quite high-strung cats and they need to be active to burn some of it off. Madge was a prolific murderer under she retired at 18, one summer she managed 3-4 massive rats a day for months on end! Other memorable “gifts” include a stoat and a mostly alive (and very p1ssed off!) magpie that she somehow shoved through the cat flap.

I absolutely adored that cat, and it feels fitting to end my time with the breed with her — no other will ever come close, and it would be unfair on another to expect them to try. You’ll never have a better companion if you get a good one, but it makes the loss so much harder.

Interesting re pica, it cropped up in some research but the breeders I did manage to speak to sort of dismissed it when I queried if it’s something they experienced with their cats.

Our Birman had pica and it was a nightmare to live with. Hmmmmm thinking cap may need to go back on.

 

[honetpot]

I have a Siamese cross, and all I can say is she is talkative, and because she is a cross has a chubby face. My sister has full Siamese which is a bit of a boss cat and goes upstairs at eight to go to bed. I think he is about ten with no problems.

 

[Caol Ila]

My in-laws have two, one kitten and one seven (I think) year old. Both female, not related. The older cat was a terror when she was a kitten, but she is lovely now. The kitten is very sweet.

No health problems, as far as I know. They are very personable and interactive. I think OH's mum did a lot of research into breeders.

 

[smiggy]

I adore mine. He has the biggest personality. He is the old fashioned type from a family home hobby breeder, all the proper breeders I checked out were rife with viral infections and fip. He drives me mad with his neediness sometimes but he is a snuggle bug, currently curled up under the duvet next to me. He is a massive hunter, brings in dead things every other day .would absolutely have another.

 

[P3LH]

I adore mine. He has the biggest personality. He is the old fashioned type from a family home hobby breeder, all the proper breeders I checked out were rife with viral infections and fip. He drives me mad with his neediness sometimes but he is a snuggle bug, currently curled up under the duvet next to me. He is a massive hunter, brings in dead things every other day .would absolutely have another.

And this is why I’d really quite like one and think they’d fit in. Have you found issues with things like pica/eating/chewing things or any specific behavioural issues?
He’s very handsome!

 

[smiggy]

No, I think that’s quite a small subset, and again from the over bred breeder type ones. Apart from smashing things by knocking them off shelves if you don’t get to him quickly enough when he wants food, then no real behaviour issues
He has a reputation among my friends who sometimes borrow my school as he likes to watch, he stalks along the fence and perches there while they ride, occasionally jumping out to test their reflexes !

 

[Shady]

I could honestly write pages in response to them as they have been my passion for over 40 years, and I honestly can't imagine my life without a handful of 'gremkitties' in it.
Currently have 1 Siamese and 3 Orientals, but i've had 11 in the past. The sofa used to look like a giant celtic knot. They are a naturally talkative breed, so unless they were asleep, my house was rarely quiet
However Director Fury has said pretty much most of the negative's about them, and in truth you would be very very lucky now to find that one breeder who is producing healthy kittens. There are a few ethical breeders to be sure , who try their best to do things right, but honestly there are just too many health issues in most of the lines now, and it will only get worse due to the constant importation of Eastern European lines and the new extreme type.
Small hobby breeders are fine, and probably a better choice in a way , however they are still at the mercy of inherited health/behaviour issues through the stud they use and the queens they bring in. Genetic trests should still be a priority and often aren't as they cost money
I'm not even going to go there with what has been brought into the UK health wise , but if you decide to take a chance ,you must accept that you will almost certainly get teeth problems, possibly get stomach issues and very possibly lose them young to an inherited problem . DF's comment about a genetic puddle is about right

With all my experiemce I have quite recently lost 2 brothers before 3 years to cancer, and 1 Oriental under a year to heart failure. His Siamese sister is now 5 and her teeth either fall out on their own, or have to be removed. Another has chronic gastro issues, his brother is highly strung and stress pees if strangers visit( very common). Pica is more common now, possibly due to kittens either leaving too young or staying with their mum too long. Or living on their own. Who knows. Or just instability in the line . Only breeding from cats with good characters/ size and health has long gone. Some of the breeders I see being recommended are mostly more interested in trophies than health.

I am not saying don't get one as I love the breed above all others. I have my chocolate Oriental draped across my shoulders as I write this, but I would say don't rush and ask as many questions as you can. Visit or ask for videos . Ask to see tests and kittens with mum , make certain stomachs are good. Get that in writing as giardia and foetus are rife . Join some FB groups devoted to the breed and trawl the photo's , and health posts!
Ask yourself if 1 will be happy and get enough exercise. 2 is nearly always better. Kitten or rescue? There are many Siamese rescue groups now. I can direct you to some.
I am very happy to help if I can via PM's , but I have lost touch with the uk scene now, and all breeders I knew have retired. I have 1 very good ex breeder friend who may be able to scan a pedigree, or say a definate no to a certain breeder. I can certainly have a nosey if you find a kitten you like. Be very careful regarding Pets4homes

Obligatory photo of my beautiful Rosie Lee

 

[P3LH]

I could honestly write pages in response to them as they have been my passion for over 40 years, and I honestly can't imagine my life without a handful of 'gremkitties' in it.
Currently have 1 Siamese and 3 Orientals, but i've had 11 in the past. The sofa used to look like a giant celtic knot. They are a naturally talkative breed, so unless they were asleep, my house was rarely quiet
However Director Fury has said pretty much most of the negative's about them, and in truth you would be very very lucky now to find that one breeder who is producing healthy kittens. There are a few ethical breeders to be sure , who try their best to do things right, but honestly there are just too many health issues in most of the lines now, and it will only get worse due to the constant importation of Eastern European lines and the new extreme type.
Small hobby breeders are fine, and probably a better choice in a way , however they are still at the mercy of inherited health/behaviour issues through the stud they use and the queens they bring in. Genetic trests should still be a priority and often aren't as they cost money
I'm not even going to go there with what has been brought into the UK health wise , but if you decide to take a chance ,you must accept that you will almost certainly get teeth problems, possibly get stomach issues and very possibly lose them young to an inherited problem . DF's comment about a genetic puddle is about right

With all my experiemce I have quite recently lost 2 brothers before 3 years to cancer, and 1 Oriental under a year to heart failure. His Siamese sister is now 5 and her teeth either fall out on their own, or have to be removed. Another has chronic gastro issues, his brother is highly strung and stress pees if strangers visit( very common). Pica is more common now, possibly due to kittens either leaving too young or staying with their mum too long. Or living on their own. Who knows. Or just instability in the line . Only breeding from cats with good characters/ size and health has long gone. Some of the breeders I see being recommended are mostly more interested in trophies than health.

I am not saying don't get one as I love the breed above all others. I have my chocolate Oriental draped across my shoulders as I write this, but I would say don't rush and ask as many questions as you can. Visit or ask for videos . Ask to see tests and kittens with mum , make certain stomachs are good. Get that in writing as giardia and foetus are rife . Join some FB groups devoted to the breed and trawl the photo's , and health posts!
Ask yourself if 1 will be happy and get enough exercise. 2 is nearly always better. Kitten or rescue? There are many Siamese rescue groups now. I can direct you to some.
I am very happy to help if I can via PM's , but I have lost touch with the uk scene now, and all breeders I knew have retired. I have 1 very good ex breeder friend who may be able to scan a pedigree, or say a definate no to a certain breeder. I can certainly have a nosey if you find a kitten you like. Be very careful regarding Pets4homes

Obligatory photo of my beautiful Rosie Lee

Christ, that does not sound anything like the ones I remember - or what breeders have said, which is EXACTLY why I wanted to pick brains on here! It sounds like they are rather plagued with issues now - the doggy, clingy, solidly bonded personality was really what I was desperate for, after promising myself one for years now, and it’s something I think I’ve only found in Siamese. Hmmm.

 

[Shady]

Christ, that’s not anything like the ones I remember - or what breeders have said, which is EXACTLY why I wanted to pick brains on here! It sounds like they are rather plagued with issues now - the doggy, clingy, solidly bonded personality was really what I was desperate for, after promising myself one for years now, and it’s something I think I’ve only found in Siamese. Hmmm.

Rosie is the new type, and in fact not even that extreme. Ears are now lying almost horizontal in many, and it's sadly a popular look.
The older style are still very much around though, especially in the UK and France.
On the whole personalities are still dog like and super loving, but because type became more important than personality, you find more extremes now. Too needy or too sensitive.
Personally I go for the kitten that is most forward and relaxed when I visit , but I would always be advised by the breeder, or take note of behaviour in a video. The shyest kitten can make the sweetest companion, rather than the loudest one!

This was MoMo, who on paper had excellent lines....except for 1 British bred stud. He died aged 3. His brother a few months later. I was so unbelievably upset as they were so perfect in every way

 

[Shady]

I adore mine. He has the biggest personality. He is the old fashioned type from a family home hobby breeder, all the proper breeders I checked out were rife with viral infections and fip. He drives me mad with his neediness sometimes but he is a snuggle bug, currently curled up under the duvet next to me. He is a massive hunter, brings in dead things every other day .would absolutely have another.

Beautiful cat Smiggy . I've had 2 blue points and I love them. Yours looks to have really lovely eyes. Bright china blue?

 

[P3LH]

Rosie is the new type, and in fact not even that extreme. Ears are now lying almost horizontal in many, and it's sadly a popular look.
The older style are still very much around though, especially in the UK and France.
On the whole personalities are still dog like and super loving, but because type became more important than personality, you find more extremes now. Too needy or too sensitive.
Personally I go for the kitten that is most forward and relaxed when I visit , but I would always be advised by the breeder, or take note of behaviour in a video. The shyest kitten can make the sweetest companion, rather than the loudest one!

This was MoMo, who on paper had excellent lines....except for 1 British bred stud. He died aged 3. His brother a few months later. I was so unbelievably upset as they were so perfect in every way

Sorry I’ve edited now - read it back (typing on my lunch break!) your cat is beautiful, I meant the description of the many challenges!

 

[Shady]

Sorry I’ve edited now - read it back (typing on my lunch break!) your cat is beautiful, I meant the description of the many challenges!

Lol!!! No worries even without the edit! . The modern type isn't to everybody's taste, and I totally get that, and would never be offended if a poster compared them to bats for example. I absolutely loved the gremkitty name ElleSkywalker gave them and always think of them as that now.

 

[smiggy]

Thanks shady , yes they are bright China blue, he is a very handsome cat , well he thinks so anyway
We really lucked out with him. I bought my daughter a Siamese kitten for her 8 th birthday , I did all my research and bought her from the chairperson of the Siamese cat club. She was gorgeous personality wise. But she stopped growing at about 5 months , then developed all the signs of fip and we lost her at ten months. We were all devastated, especially my daughter.
Years later my daughter said, think I might be ready for another Siamese.she had been so heart broken and it had taken her so long to be ready that I wanted to help her. Drove 5 hours to a recommended breeder and every cat in the house had a chronic respiratory infection. At that point I just went on pets to home, found someone with a few pets and a stud cat, went up and house was clean, kittens were well socialised so I took a chance. Had him fully insured for years as was expecting gingivitis at least but he is the fittest cat ever.
I’m lucky in that I have a Cattery , we have some lovely siamese that come and I already have the breeders number !

 

[Shady]

Thanks shady , yes they are bright China blue, he is a very handsome cat , well he thinks so anyway
We really lucked out with him. I bought my daughter a Siamese kitten for her 8 th birthday , I did all my research and bought her from the chairperson of the Siamese cat club. She was gorgeous personality wise. But she stopped growing at about 5 months , then developed all the signs of fip and we lost her at ten months. We were all devastated, especially my daughter.
Years later my daughter said, think I might be ready for another Siamese.she had been so heart broken and it had taken her so long to be ready that I wanted to help her. Drove 5 hours to a recommended breeder and every cat in the house had a chronic respiratory infection. At that point I just went on pets to home, found someone with a few pets and a stud cat, went up and house was clean, kittens were well socialised so I took a chance. Had him fully insured for years as was expecting gingivitis at least but he is the fittest cat ever.
I’m lucky in that I have a Cattery , we have some lovely siamese that come and I already have the breeders number !

So tragic to lose one to fip. There is treatment now, tho it is expensive, hard work and doesn't always succeed.
Gosh but you were luck Smiggy taking a chance like that, but it does show that a healthy kitten can be found. Having her own stud cat probably helped .
I have to admit to having a peek on P4H and I was disappointed by the quality of not only the kittens, but by the adverts themselves , and the prices asked for some were taking the pee completely. I recognised 2 old breeders who I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
It sounds like you might be in a good position to help the OP. A personal recommendation is the best way of all

 

[I'm Dun]

I've always loved the breed from being a tiny child and thought when I got too old and sick to manage dogs that I'd have one, but it all sounds terribly sad and fraught with difficulties.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Christ, that does not sound anything like the ones I remember - or what breeders have said, which is EXACTLY why I wanted to pick brains on here! It sounds like they are rather plagued with issues now - the doggy, clingy, solidly bonded personality was really what I was desperate for, after promising myself one for years now, and it’s something I think I’ve only found in Siamese. Hmmm.

The personality you've described there - you wouldn't go wrong with a ragdoll they do need to be indoor only though, as they can't sense danger.

I wouldn't have anything else, I absolutely ADORE mine and am obsessed with her!

 

[P3LH]

The personality you've described there - you wouldn't go wrong with a ragdoll they do need to be indoor only though, as they can't sense danger.

I wouldn't have anything else, I absolutely ADORE mine and am obsessed with her!

This is your dragons den pitch moment for the breed - the grooming does put me off a little, and I’ve had friends own them all of which seem to have digestive issues….but they are quite ‘pretty’ cats I must admit. They would be up non-cat OH’s street more I think.

 

[P3LH]

Looked into Burmese yesterday evening - shocked that some breeders have made them into snub nosed and bug eyed looking animals now. Thought they may be the middle ground….hmmph.

 

[Shady]

This is your dragons den pitch moment for the breed - the grooming does put me off a little, and I’ve had friends own them all of which seem to have digestive issues….but they are quite ‘pretty’ cats I must admit. They would be up non-cat OH’s street more I think.

I love CCL's Ragdoll, she's beautiful , but yes they are a breed now suffering from digestive issues.

Burmese have changed so much I also don't recognise them from the lilac girl I had years ago. Very sad

So I had a little poke around, and if your preference was the older style Siamese a couple of breeders caught my eye. They are not recommendations P3LH as I haven't looked at traditional breeders for a long time and I don't know any personally.
Lesley Green of Lintama Siamese jumped out at me as I liked her website a lot. Great attitude, and the cats and kittens looked lovely. She would be good to have a chat with and discuss the gene pool!
Domina-Katz also. Helen Gilham. Definitely a connection there with Lesley.
I also loved the look of the kittens and mum from Orthodox Siamese. Alla Yeates. However on the cat club site it states it's a first litter from the queen, and on her facebook page it says it's her third, and the litter has gone from 5 to 6 . Could be a simple error, but that bothers me.I would possibly still contact as I really liked everything else I saw .

I will ask my old friend what her thoughts are and if she feels confident recommending anybody.
The question really is though, how modern do you want?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

This is your dragons den pitch moment for the breed - the grooming does put me off a little, and I’ve had friends own them all of which seem to have digestive issues….but they are quite ‘pretty’ cats I must admit. They would be up non-cat OH’s street more I think.

Yes they have very sensitive tummies, both mine and my mums 2 once you find a food that agrees with them, keep them on it! Mine has lily's kitchen dry food and half an applawse pouch a day (grain free). She steals OH BSH (also very sensitive tummy!) Hypoallergenic food and if she has too much it upsets her tummy for a day or 2, and there are times the pantaloons require some er... attention... after a toilet visit!

However her personality is WONDERFUL and she is beautiful. They definitely must not go out alone (ours go on leads on their harnesses in the garden in the summer when we are out there) because they don't sense danger. They're good at appearing behind you silently, you turn and nearly go splat and they stomp off offended as if it's your fault!

You cannot go to the loo unaccompanied, mine will often sit on your lap if you're on the loo.

She is pretty chatty, she likes to tell you if she's brought you a toy/got a toy. She will sometimes howl just because she's upstairs and you're downstairs

She has a cracking personality, when "lit up" will tear about tail right up and over the back, but then also loves chilling

They like to be WITH you but not ON you, she will come for a 5 or 10 minute smooch on you on the bed/sofa, but then prefers her own space to sleep. Fair enough as they're big cats.

She absolutely ADORES me but then I absolutely ADORE her, and chat away to her like a batty cat lady. She's very dismissive of OH because he doesn't appreciate how gorgeous she is (he prefers shorthairs hence why he has a BSH). Again her character is great here, as if he's told her off (ragdolls don't approve of the word no) she will then go and do something she knows annoys him (working the corner of the rug, going behind the tv etc)

Her colours and appearance are stunning. She does get quite knotty however she's incredibly hairy atm, and quite thick haired, my mums girl is much finer coated and less prone to knots. Both are from the same breeder. Her boy gets quite knotty but he's an old man now so not as mobile as he was.

I am absolutely charmed by the personality, they can be super affectionate but you also have the joy of watching them when theyre lit up or in a cheeky mood

I'd definitely want proof the parents have been tested for a heart condition I THINK if I remember correctly it's HCM. Even though my mum had brought hers from my breeder I asked for papers etc confirming it for both parents which she happily sent me - if you're down south i can pm you her breeding tag. She had one recently that looked so similar to my beloved I wished I had a lottery win! I'd have loads of them if I could. There's just something I find the breed has that others don't, a bit like I think Shady with her Orientals once you've been charmed by one nothing else comes close

The other breeds I'd potentially consider would be a Norwegian forest cat or a siberian, they seem to be very chatty however you'd need to do some research on health/tests etc. I've never had either both just appeal to me, especially as we suspect a moggy we had when I was a teenager maybe had some NFC in her due to some of the traits she showed

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Sorry OP for a side Q, but do pure Ragdolls take a lot of grooming then?

My Ragdoll x Maine Coon takes no grooming at all, asides from bathroom clean ups of her pantaloons. She seems to have most of the ragdoll traits though, very chatty, quite dog like almost and I do not let her out unsupervised as she has no fear!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Sorry OP for a side Q, but do pure Ragdolls take a lot of grooming then?

My Ragdoll x Maine Coon takes no grooming at all, asides from bathroom clean ups of her pantaloons. She seems to have most of the ragdoll traits though, very chatty, quite dog like almost and I do not let her out unsupervised as she has no fear!

View attachment 154436

Love her

Mine does we don't stay as on top of it as we should as she deems brushing to be something she isn't a fan of, so sometimes we have to trim the knots out, however I think it's because she is so incredibly hairy atm that it's just very thick fur and layers of it, so it makes it more prone to tangles, my mums boy ragdoll needeed barely any brushing, apart from moulting season, he's only got more prone to knots now he's an old boy, so less agile grooming/the more oily coat of an older cat

Doesn't properly show her stunning colours atm but to give an idea of the current level of hairiness!!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Love her

Mine does we don't stay as on top of it as we should as she deems brushing to be something she isn't a fan of, so sometimes we have to trim the knots out, however I think it's because she is so incredibly hairy atm that it's just very thick fur and layers of it, so it makes it more prone to tangles, my mums boy ragdoll needeed barely any brushing, apart from moulting season, he's only got more prone to knots now he's an old boy, so less agile grooming/the more oily coat of an older cat

Doesn't properly show her stunning colours atm but to give an idea of the current level of hairiness!!

View attachment 154437

View attachment 154438

She is beyond gorgeous .

Huffle has more of a silky coat and not much under coat, she doesn’t really moult too much unlike all my short haired cats . Really Huffs is the best of all worlds in my opinion, no grooming, not much moulting, very dog like but all in cat form .

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

She is beyond gorgeous .

Huffle has more of a silky coat and not much under coat, she doesn’t really moult too much unlike all my short haired cats . Really Huffs is the best of all worlds in my opinion, no grooming, not much moulting, very dog like but all in cat form .

My mums female ragdoll is more silky, mine seems to have a lot of under coat at the moment which i think adds to the potential to knot as its so dense. I think the top layer of mine is fairly silky then you get to the thick stuff

Glad it's not just me who has to deal with Pantaloon mishaps, the only downside of the breed!