Side reins - following on from the draw reins discussion

[MrsMozart]

I have used side-reins on all my horses. The inner one slightly shorter than the outer.

I have found that they help to guide and direct the horse, especially as they have been young ones. They are not tight so do not strap the head down.

Please note: I'm not ecstatic about lunging, but have found it useful for getting attention, burning off some excess energy, etc. When I do lunge, it's eliptical rather than pure circles, the aim being to reduce the strain on joints.

I gather that some people do not like them and am interested in why that is.

 

[siennamum]

I like them on older horses to encourage self carriage & for fitness work. I would have them the same length with the outer coming into play more than the inner, in fact I would want slack on the inner & to have them working more into the outer.

 

[MrsMozart]

S - why is that (the lengths)? I was always told the opposite - but I'm open to suggestion!

 

[TheMule]

I dont lunge except wehn breaking in when I will use loose side reins so they get the idea of a pressure on their mouth when theyre moving.

There are many schools of thought but the traditional thought of inside leg to outside rein would suggest that using on outer side rein as the outside rein and the whip as the inside leg was the logical way- remembering also that inside bend shouldnt come from constant inside rein pressure

 

[dressager]

I'm not keen on lunging either but do use elasticated side reins, both the same length. The reason you want the horse more into the outside rein is the same as when you ride I'm guessing, so as not to block the inside hind leg (rhythm and impulsion) and to prevent too much forced inside bend which causes the horse to fall out through the outside shoulder (straightness).

I think there is a real art to lunging and wish there were more people around to teach it

 

[MrsMozart]

Thank you

I must have been doing it wrong all these years , unless the school of though has changed between then (about thirty years ago when I first learnt) and now.

I tend to use the Pessoa these days. I know not everyone likes it(!), but it works for Dizzy. She will argue with a rider, but with the Pessoa, she gives a couple of shakes and then settles down to work, including stretching down long and low (more so than when she has a rider on board).

 

[Tnavas]

I always use side reins when lunging once the horse has been warmed up. Both reins the same length and long enough to encourage the horse to reach into the contact. I find them invaluable for teaching the horse to accept and be confident in the contact.

The inside rein should be in a loop as you are aiming to work the horse into the outside rein. The lunge line when squeezed creates the equivalent of a half halt, along with the use of the whip at the hock. To straighten/prevent the horse coming in on the circle I use the whip along the girth line just behind the elbow.

I rarely canter the horse on the lunge unless the horse is at a more advanced level.

My side reins are solid, no elastic or donut rings as when you ride you like to work into a soft consistant contact - the elastic encourages leaning and the donuts bump around on the mouth with every stride. This is also why I don't like the Passoa because of the activity it generates on the mouth.

 

[Halfstep]

I only use side reins for in hand work with older horses or for lunging babies (loose, obviously, and only to get them used to the concept of contact). For older horses on the lunge I use the draw reins over the withers set up, which allows for lateral bend. I would never set up side reins to force an inside bend as to me this is asking for crookedness.

 

[lucemoose]

i use side reins once in a while on those horses that benefit from the contact they provide but never is one shorter than the other. my reins are the same length!!

 

[Allover]

Out of interest, where do you all attach the side reins to, bit to side ring of the roller, bit to "top" ring on roller, cavesson to side rings of roller etc?

I dont use side reins when lunging though see the use of them when leading a horse that is a bit "fresh".

 

[Bertthefrog]

I prefer solid side reins too, I find the donuts/elastic inserts encourage the horse to lean on them!

I always keep mine the same length, attached to the bit, but vary the attachment site at the roller end depending on what I am wanting to achieve.

You can attach the roller end to any of the points on the roller, top, middle or bottom. I have used them crossed over the wither to the opposite top ring too ( for a horse that had a very heavy shoulder).

I have also seen one ( the inside side rein) and both attached between the horses front legs to the girth area - to encourage suppleness in a particular wooden showjumper. It did help.

I also use chambons (sometimes with side reins to encourage the horse to work into a contact as well as working through its back) and pessoas. All successfully.

I use them when breaking too, as has been mentioned before to offer a contact.

 

[Tnavas]

The lower the side rein attachment to the roller the lower it encourages the head, but it also causes a downward action on the bit which affects the lie of the bit in the mouth which I don't like. I usually put mine on the middle ring where I find it is soft enough to create a kind contact.

Accross the wither when the horse is working at a more advanced level and the same for the top ring

 

[only_me]

Use side reins when lunging; helps keep the horse working correctly. they should always be the same length though

I never use drawing reins though, occasionally use running reins when needed

 

[JDChaser]

Eek, I hate it when people shorten the inside rein

 

[Allover]

Ok my next questions will be (are you all sitting comfortably)

1, How do side reins emulate a hand held contact, i am presuming that none of you ride with your hands rigid on either the middle of the horses shoulders or withers, which would be the lines that the side reins take when attached to either the side or top rings of the roller.

2, Side reins, even the elasticated ones, are not as "giving" as your hands, therefore when the horse reaches forward into the contact there is no "give" it meets in effect a "rigid" hand. Does this not just encourage them to sit slightly behind the bit and avoid it?

Thank you

 

[silver zaanif]

side riens are the spawn of satin

 

[Allover]

side riens are the spawn of satin

Do you really mean SatAn

 

[silver zaanif]

Do you really mean SatAn

possiably and i bet i didn't spell that right either

 

[flyingfeet]

Here I go again

Whats right with them?
Ideal for small children on ponies who are get bucked with

What wrong with them?
- Penalizes any stumble (hate for babies)
- encourages horse to drop behind the bit and become stiff in the neck
- Does not promote correct stretch and use of back muscles
- People say they "learn to go into the bit" - errr well if you have fixed unyielding hands then knock yourself out...
-They don't work on a circle - which is unfortunate when used in lungeing

I think people should spend more time with chambons and long lining to get better results

A better reasoned argument on:
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php#siderein

 

[MrsMozart]

So....

Some use for babies, some hate them for babies.

Some use two at equal length.

Some use two, with the outer shorter.

Some use one (see the Draw Reins thread), on the inside only.



Confused yet?

 

[Tnavas]

Here I go again

Whats right with them?
Ideal for small children on ponies who are get bucked with - do you really think that they will stop them bucking - a grass rein might!

What wrong with them?
- Penalizes any stumble (hate for babies) Only disadvantage there is with them, but good ground and sensible lunging should reduce any stumbling

- encourages horse to drop behind the bit and become stiff in the neck only if fitted incorrectly - correct length they encourage the horse to reach for the contact

- Does not promote correct stretch and use of back muscles Again only if fitted incorrectly, when driven forward correctly the horse learns to work forward into the contact

- People say they "learn to go into the bit" - errr well if you have fixed unyielding hands then knock yourself out... The horse should go into a STILL contact - weren't you the one that said that UK riders ride with a stronger contact than the Spanish Riding School? Never had a problem with any of mine - I have mine on the lightest of contacts and if the head starts to come up I hold my contact and put my leg on and they go back down. If they are good eenough for the Spanish Riding School then they are more than good enough for the likes of us!



-They don't work on a circle - which is unfortunate when used in lungeing Of course they do! The outside rein emulates your outside rein when riding and the lunge line becomes the inside rein.

I think people should spend more time with chambons and long lining to get better results
Chambons are fine if the horse will react to the action of the chambon - but they don't teach a horse contact.

A better reasoned argument on:
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/gadgets.php#siderein

Unfortunately she freely admits she doesn't understand why they are used

"At the Spanish Riding School, tradition has it that sidereins have always been used for lungeing and to a certain extent for long reining. How and why they do so is out of my sphere of knowledge"

Having spent some time training with Robert Hall - and ex Spanish Riding School trainer I do understand how and why they are used.
The do not use elasticated or rubber ring side reins but those that are solid.

Sidereins have a very important part to play in the breaking of a horse and of on going schooling as the horse gets older. Lunging with side reins helps to straighten and strengthen the horse. Long reining is fine so long as the horse is not allowed to overbend which does very easily happen. I don't often long rein my youngsters as I don't want them to learn to duck behind the contact.

 

[siennamum]

I think that because the contact from side reins is consistent, it encourages the horse to relax & work within the frame the reins provide. In fact when I am riding I try to think of my hands as working like side reins, quite still & quiet and providing a consistent frame.
I don't walk any more than I have to, my mare has a poor walk & so I try not to do anything much in walk. In trot and canter the reins are long enough to encourage her to work in an uphill frame, but she isn't behind the bit because I continually get her to shorten & lengthen & work through lots of transitions & spiralling in and out.

As evelyn says I use the whip as my inside leg & point it at her shoulder to get her to keep on the circle, the inside rein has a loop & the outside rein provides support. The lunge rein gives me an impact on her pace & bend.

I only work for 20 mins or so, and it helps keep her supple & working correctly, especially if I am pressed for time. It allows her to work stuff out for herself without me interfering & it makes her realise that if she fights/resists, she is fighting herself. I hasten to add that I lunge very infrequently, generally if we are preparing for a specific competition & need to up our game.

I also lunge in a chambon, but that makes them work completely differenlty, as does the draw rein device. I use them to work the topline & get the horse working over the back.

 

[Weezy]

So.....

Some use two, with the outer shorter.

Some use one (see the Draw Reins thread), on the inside only.



Confused yet?

I would never advocate using side reins with either of the 2 above set ups, and would love to hear from anyone who does, and why they do and what they are trying to achieve!

 

[KatB]

Well here is one for you

An old instructor I had years ago (who was a "classical" trainer ) used to lunge with an outside siderein, and then the lunge line clipped to the roller, and through the bit ring and back to the lungers hand... therefore you can control the inside bend... but also have quite a lot of leverage on the horses neck...

Just to add another variation!!

 

[Tnavas]

Just a little extra to add - I never lunge off the bit - always the centre ring of a lunging cavesson.

 

[flyingfeet]

Evelyn you are I are never going to see eye to eye on training methods

However dislike of side reins is actually more common than you would think, if you read the book "Training Show Jumpers" by Anthony Paalman (first published in 1978), he is also very critical of side reins

I guess driving the horse into a fix unyielding contact is not to my taste, and I do not believe you get anywhere near the muscle build up of a chambon.

I would never start a baby with side reins as especially when they first start work are are wobbly, I don't want them socked in the mouth from stumbling.
However from what I understand I think you do more training with ex racers than babies, and they would be more balanced and have more muscle.

Also I thought you should have an ELASTIC contact, not still, but again we differ in our thoughts.

Also most of your comments had "if fitted correctly" given the number of side reins and the type of people that use them I believe only the minority are fitted correctly. Most are bunged on so they pull the head below the vertical and then the ineffective lunger stands in the middle whilst half hearted flicking the whip. So horse drops below the bit is on the forehand and the whole exercise doesn't seem to achieve anything apart from perhaps making the horse accepting of a dead contact.

At least the novice cannot do any harm with the chambon and even with an ineffective lunger they still encourage stretch.

And another thing - do you put them straight on when you first start? (at Talland they do), so muscles not allowed to stretch out and instead bundled straight into the faux outline with the dead fixed contact. Carl Hester and others have learned the importance of stretching the horse before beginning work (and after).

 

[Allover]

Another question: Does the side rein not give a backwards signal on the bit (especially when attached to the side rings) as opposed to the hand which is supposed th give an "upward" signal to the bit?

 

[Tempi]

Never ever use draw reins with the inside rein shorter!!!! You are making your horse very crooked!!! The horse should be into the outside rein off your inside leg - the reins should be EQUAL lengths. The bend should be through the body, not in the neck!

I use draw reins on my horse, shes very long backed and a lot to keep together. I never lunge in side reins apart from with youngsters. To lunge my mare i do the drawreins over the wither thing.

 

[Tnavas]

Jen_Cots - no I don't just work with TB's of the Track - Over the years I've worked with just about every type of horse/pony and at various ages and stages - and the TB's are often the hardest to initially work with as they are as stiff as planks and been leaning on the rider for the duration of their racing career.

Babies are worked without side reins - they are taught to walk, halt and trot on the lunge withouot them until they are fully obedient. Then when they have developed some muscle and balance they are used - I don't have side reins tight - I have them so the horse has to work forwards into them - so early on in their training there is no contact at all, just the weight of the rein on the bit. Also the initial side rein work is attached to the cavesson - not the bit.

MIne work for at least 10 mins - 5 on each rein without side reins to warm up and loosen - again I don't have side reins tight so will not be restricting movement and the ability for the horse to stretch.

Interestingly when I worked for Jennie Lorriston Clarke we were expected to start working the horses the moment we got on them - straight into a contact and outline. Which was not at all what I was used to. As I've said before I'm very classically trained so like my horses to be soft and happy and free moving. I find the classical methods encourage this to happen.

A still contact is what you work to achieve - it's not a dead contact or heavy. It is being able to maintain the same sensitive feel all the time without loss of or increase of the contact - Elastic is another way to describe it though - the riders arm moves with the horse to maintain the same steady soft contact. If the rider sets their hand hard they would block the movement and develop resistance.

I do use a chambon on some that are persistant in wanting to work hollow. This only after pain issues have been ruled out, dentist & Chiro are as much part of their lives as the farrier. What worries me with the novice and a chambon is the reaction by the horse when it is first fitted, I've seen them flip over before now when they feel the upward pressure on the mouth. Have also seen some that just will not lower to its action.

The reason I say 'Correctly fitted' is that people can go and buy all sorts of gadgets from the saddlers and they come with absolutely no instructions in their use. The item then gets branded as being bad when the problem is that its not being used correctly.

Horses are incredibly forgiving and their owners often very ignorent.

 

[millitiger]

I don't use side reins at all as I cannot get my head around something non-yielding which cannot react to the horse being used to teach a horse about contact.

imo most horses work slightly behind the contact when in side reins.

I like to long rein if working on contact so I can feel what is happening and actively teach the horse to go into my outside hand.