Side reins - natural horsemanship?

[Trish C]

I was just watching in fascination as Monty Roberts proclaimed 'single line lunging' as the "second worse" display of horsemanship you can use. (Backstage Pass, episode 4 - available to watch online here - be sure to click to ep 4)

In a nutshell, if you don't want to watch the program, he claims that single line lunging causes a horse to bend 'the wrong way' thus causing all sorts of physical problems. He used a horse which had these problems in his demo.

His answer - side reins. He used them at first evenly and showed a more even line of the spine, then gradually adjusted them to bring a more 'firm' contact and introduce a stronger contact down the inside than outside eventually, from what I can figure, having the inside one four 'notches' shorter than the outside one.

I was fascinated by this... I do lunge using side reins occasionally, but I also lunge with a single line just off a headcollar, with two lines, in full tack, in a roller - essentially I vary my lunging as much as I vary my riding and I've found it's working brilliantly with my boy. So I have my own views on the subject, but am very interested to hear everyone else's take on it.

Go!

 

[Jesstickle]

What's wrong with lunging with two lines like a civilised person?

I'm not sure how side reins stop them bending the wrong way as you still end up with more pull on one side than the other from the lunge line Essentially you end up with the same problem and you need to have a line on the outside too?

 

[Trish C]

I can't really explain it Jess, if you get a chance watch the program.

Not sure whether I agree or disagree... it's nice to hear him saying that side reins have a place but I think I disagree with his views on single line lunging. I think it depends on the horse (obviously) and the pressure that's on that horse whilst lunging. I wouldn't (and don't) use it exclusively, but I wouldn't not occasionally use it either... same with side reins, lunging with two lines etc. In case you can't tell, I'm still forming my opinions

 

[Bettyboo222]

Very interesting

Especially as it goes against the parelli lunging/bonding thing

 

[Jesstickle]

I can't really explain it Jess, if you get a chance watch the program.

I was only being contrary really! I often lunge with a single line. BH doesn't need two as he's reasonably established and rarely even takes all the slack out of the line. Nitty I tend to use two for at the moment as she is just learning the ropes (no pun intended) and I want her to learn properly.

Horses for courses and all that. Sounds interesting though. If OH wasn't stealing all the bandwidth watching football it would be much easier for me to check it out!!

 

[ester]

I think it depends on the horse, frank tends to keep the proper bend when just lunged off one line but if I want him to work properly then I use two.

Mum's horse is more inclined to look to the outside and not bend without some encouragement from side reins or similar.

 

[Natch]

I agree with monty in as far as lunging often does not create a horse who goes straight on a circle. Seen far toi many switched off horse go around hollow and looking to the outside. But to counter that I have seen a few worked in a circle go really nicely, some are being lunged in usual single rein lunging gear with side reins, others being worked loose, so I have come to the conclusion that it depends on the skill of the handler.

Personally I would rather long rein and free school, than lunge in side reins. Have to say the only point I see in them is to get a horse used to contact, and I'd rather do that with a dynamic contact with hands at the end, i.e. long reining. But each to their own

 

[Trish C]

Definitely, Ester. I'm on a yard which is very into natural horsemanship (not Parelli, but other methods) - I'm the only person who rides in a bit even - and they all lunge with single line from just a headcollar, as per the advice of the Australian horseman with whom they have yearly clinics, who is apparently quite a big deal. Would be interested to get their take on this. Off the top of my head, I think their horses all lunge with the 'correct' bend, from a single line and headcollar.

I wonder does the roundpen have anything to do with it? I've a feeling if I lunged Knobberts in an enclosed round pen he'd feel more pressure and would be less inclined to lunge 'properly', as I've noticed if I lunge him in a corner he occasionally looks to the outside, whereas if I lunge in the middle of the school he never does... unless he gets distracted and has a buckfartsqueal moment

Natch (not typing your whole name ) agree with use of long-reining and free schooling. Unfortunately I have a horse that doesn't understand long reining - am working on it, just as he wouldn't lunge at first, am beginning to get a good idea of how he was broken - and that I can't loose school since he went through a phase of arena-leaving Am hopeful to get back to loose schooling though as we've since had that click, which I think is termed 'joined up', whereby he'll follow me and my body language - he'll now lunge on a very slack line so good signs.

 

[ester]

lol, we are def never in an enclosed area.. either an acre or 3 of field!

 

[Holly Hocks]

I lunge from a single line from a headcollar - unless it's with a particularly unruly horse!

I took my youngster to someone I highly respect so that she could teach me how she would start her youngsters. I turned up with lunge cavesson, but she told me to put it away, stuck a headcollar on her and within a minute had pony lunging. Because of her age I only do it once or twice a week for 10 minutes but she now walks, trots and halts to command.

The next step will be long-reining, and again I will be taking her to my trainer so that she can show me her way of doing it so that I feel that I am doing it right. I want to make it right from the start.

I think it's different for each horse. What works for one might not work for another and when something doesn't work then we have to find what does work to make it right.

 

[ISHmad]

I'm sorry but I think that's complete rubbish that single line lungeing is the second worse thing you can do to a horse. You only need to watch some of the classical trainers working their horses to see that you can achieve beautiful balance and softness from a single line. I'm not getting why he would tighten the inside side rein up more than the outside either. Surely that is forcing the horse to work in a position that he or she may not be fit enough or capable of doing at that stage in their training? And anyway you can achieve those results without side reins or other gadgets, which surely defeats the message he is trying to put out?

 

[Wagtail]

If I use one line with a pessoa or side reins, and the horse is prone to turning to the outside (as many are) then I feed the lunge line through the bit ring and back to the lunge roller ring. This creates a lovely inside bend that is more natural and flexible than just fixing a side rein shorter. I also lunge with two lines, depending on what suits the individual horse best.

 

[MrsMozart]

Been using one line a lot lately, as the other has grown legs/fallen down a crack, and both horses lunge fine on it, without side-reins (though I did find a set when clearing out a cupboard yesterday ). No bend to the outside.

We lunge elliptically, so no idea if that helps make the difference, i.e. walk up and down the school so that there are two long sides to the lunging, rather than the horse just going round in a circle. Some studies done last year I think that showed the strain on the inside leg if only use circles.

 

[jeeve]

a time and place for most things. Not sure I would class the use of side reins as natural horsemanship though. The lunge line like any tool is often misused as are side reins.

 

[Tinypony]

I can probably speak about what the "Australian horseman" is teaching his students re lunging. It is done with a single line on a halter or headcollar. The person doesn't stand in the middle and send the horse out and around them, they move with the horse, influencing the position of the shoulder initially, and all parts of the body, with the aim of getting the horse moving softly around with the back lifted, and a nice soft curve around the circle. This circing work would not be done for very long, so no lunging for 5 minutes for example, but a few circuits looking for good self-carriage, then a change of direction. Not too much of anything, mixed in with other groundwork. The point of it all is to translate the work to ridden, there is no groundwork for the sake of it. So if you watch someone doing this well you would see the horse moving lightly, with a nice inward curve on the neck and no twist in the neck (ears level is a clue that the neck isn't tense and twisting).
No side reins because you help the horse to have the correct shape and movement in other ways, the only toold are a halter and rope, and possibly a stick, but just as possibly no stick.

So it's a not like what many of us think of as lunging because there should be a lot less circuits involved. I think that the care and attention to having the horse's attention and working correctly are something you should see in good lunging though, so that would be something the two approaches would have in common.

Not so good circle work will see a horse going obediently round in a circle, but with the head pointing out of the circle, the body tense and everything just wrong. Horse's mind completely out and away from the person. Often the person is standing quite still in the middle, maybe passing the rope around behind their back. You can't really influence and fine-tune how a horse is moving unless you move with them, imho.


p.s. Monty Roberts does not claim to be anything to do with "natural horsemanship", so it's possibly not appropriate to try to relate what he does to that approach.