sitting bucks (warning - includes violent methods!!!)

[4whitesocks]

anyone have any suggestions as to how to sit the bucks of a neddy who has decided he doesn't like the fact that his owner has decided she's not going to be a complete softie anymore?

Long story short(ish) YO/instructor has been telling me I need to get tough.....my rather clever horse is taking the proverbial with me...he's fine with the bits he enjoys, jumping, x-country etc. (oh and the canter leads now that I have sorted myself out!!) but when it comes to flatwork he is completely ignoring my leg and I'm getting pretty pooped...am carrying a schooling whip so that I can back up my leg aids but TBH all I am actually doing with it is carrying it!!! Tonight I got on with the intention of showing him I mean business (not in a 'I'm gonna beat the crap out of him way' just 'I'm going to insist he listens to me') ...35 minutes in I was still not getting anywhere (and hadn't had the balls to use the 'tickler') YO came in to give me a hand (she schools him & he goes like a dream for her once he accepts she's in charge)...

She got me to work on trot/canter transitions & to take my leg off slightly, every time he backed off she got me to 'tickle' ...bearing in mind I'm not taking my hand off the reins to do this it is really just a tickle...and he started to listen - and occasionally tell me to piss off in no uncertain terms by throwing some very nice bucks. 15 minutes later we hadn't moved mountains but we had definitely made some progress and my gut tells me I need to perservere with this until he accepts I'm in charge

However he does a damn good buck sooo....anyone any tips for sitting them - thought about shortening stirrups for a few weeks as I ride quite long but that doesn't help with my seat...
Oh and if you disagree with using a schooling whip please tell me what else you would do!! (*ducks and runs for cover*)

 

[Super_Kat]

If you've stayed on so far what your doing must be doing the trick!

 

[Zebedee]

I shouldn't worry too much about your seat for the moment!! You need to get this horse going forwards, and if you shorten your stirrups you'll be able to take a secure deensive position with your lower leg (ie push it forwards) when he bucks.
Once he gets the message that you're still on top & still sending him forwards (shouldn't take long from what you're saying) you can let your stirrups back down & concentrate on getting him properly in front of your leg.

 

[barkinghorse]

No advice really, just glad that i'm not the only one with an indignant horse!!
My instructor rides William beautifully, because she is a "no nonsense, you will do as i say, and sod you if you buck" kind of person that he loves and not the "please be nice to me and don't try to get me off because i don't bounce" type that i am.
Saying that, she does shorten her stirrups 2 holes for the first 10 mins of riding him, sorts out who's boss and then lengthens them when he's listening.
Jo
PS she does smack him hard after asking twice

 

[GTs]

I hate the attitude 'as of today' with horses - horses do not understand that, and do not respond well to rapid, drastic changes - they just do not comprehend what is going, what you want them to do. They become flustered, and it just gets worse.

As for sitting bucks - have your weight in your lower leg, that way your horse can prat about underneath you and you will not move an inch!

 

[vivhewe]

Not sure really apart from sit on, hold on and don't panic!

Works for me anyway - neddie only tried it about twice

 

[4whitesocks]

Well I did lose a stirrup on one of the big ones!!! The advice was that if I ride him through it (as in send him on when he does it) then he'll quickly realise it's not gonna get me to stop asking him to work (which is what you're saying Z)...all very well in principle! OK - well up the stirrups go tomorrow (and back protector on - just in case!)

By the way barkinghouse your 'type' seems horribly similar to my type....I tend to 'suggest' a lot rather than 'insist'!!
(and I wouldn't mind but in my work environment - company is 92% male - no-one dares mess with me - but put me within 50 yards of said horse...complete wuss!)

 

[4whitesocks]

GTS the horse is being schooled in this manner regularly, I have been working up to this for three weeks now gradually asking for more from him...YO who rides him uses exactly the same method and it works for her....obviously she is a more experienced horsewoman than I am however I'm not exactly asking for grand prix dressage moves....

 

[barkinghorse]

I try to insist but i feel like he's laughing at me and saying "yeah right"!!!

 

[Natalie_H]

Mines the same!!!! When we are out hacking & he throws one, I push him on with my leg & that solves it. However, when he started flatwork when I first got him, my instructor said to sit quietly, then when he realised he hadn't got a rise out of me & stopped, I asked him to go forward again. This seemed to work. In fact, in our first walk & trot a month ago he went round quite well, did an unexpected buck at X which I sat, then calmly asked him for trot again & off he went quite happily. As you said, I am told to suggest rather than insist. I am told that I have to persuade him round to my way of thinking, rather than demanding or he argues.

 

[pottamus]

I am with your instructor on the transitions...you want to do loads of them in different paces so he does not know what is coming next...it will sharpen him up no end. But the real key to this is consistency all the time. Every time you get on him you have to request the same from the same aid you give. I am not saying you do this...but you cannot one day give him two or three aids and then get 'tough' and the next day have a no tolerance approach...as GTs said...it will confuse him (meant in a nice way)!
My boy can get into lazy mode and ignore me if allowed to so when he is like this I will head out on my hack and do transitions every 5/6 paces so he is ready to go and listening...that is all it takes now and he is fine then.
With the bucking, I would not shorten stirrups if I was you, I would drop you weigth right down into your lower leg and don't grip anywhere...or you will loose your stirrups! Been there too!

 

[Louby]

My boys the same too!! He will quite happily go round the school looking pretty with me doing all the work, ask a bit more and balung, big buck. I feel theres day light between me and the saddle some times LOL
My problem is Im a big softee and have put up with this from day one as if my friend lunges or rides him he knows and looks a different horse.
She tells me Im not consistant that I should start as I mean to go on and that its not fair for me to put up with it for most of the ride then suddenly ask for more, hence the bucks. Its like hes telling me to pee off!
My instructor says he can feel a fly landing on him so when I touch him with my leg he should move forward and to back my leg aid up immediately with a tap of the whip if he doesnt go forward. Awww Softee softee mum!!!
Sorry no advice how to stay on, just wanted to say your not alone! Wouldnt fancy shortenning my stirrups though, I think I'd get catapulted off.

 

[KateStartin]

he sounds similar to my horse!

My advice is to be absolutely consistant with your aids and discipline, insist he goes forward, there has to be no other option in his head, you must ALWAYS have guidelines for him as to this is acceptable behaviour, this is not so he is clear as to what is expected of him.

As for the bucks i suspect when he is clear of the guidelines they will stop as they are probably his way of saying **** off. Shorten your stirrups a couple of holes and if he is messing keep your weight in your lower leg.

Also keep up with the bits he enjoys, ie jumping etc, not too much schooling it will be hard for him while he gets to grips with the new you, this type of horse is so easy to make sour!

Good Luck

 

[henryhorn]

The other suggestions re sitting the bucks sound fine, but the basic problem won't really be solved just by forcing him forward, he has to want to go too otherwise you end up with a horse that isn't really co-operating in his head.
I would say a far better method is loads of fun hacking, using your leg as lightly as possible, and still backing them up with the schooling whip. try treating him like a pony for a while and whizz up slopes and canter along paths etc.
You can school out on a hack too you know and very effective it is too!
This sounds like a fed up horse to be honest (apologies if he isn't) who may grudgingly comply but you won't have his real co-operation..
We hack all ours especially the ones that arrive for schooling, it's the best method to get to know their strengths and weaknesses and you find they begin to trust you more in their schooling too.
I'm not saying your instructor's method is wrong, just that there may be a different route to the same end..

 

[esports]

GTs - I agree with what your saying, but what your asking from your horse hasn't changed. Your goals are still the same, but "as of today" you are setting about attaining them differently

 

[GTs]

I am just giving my opinion, from what I have seen in my experience. I would venture to say that in this case it is flustering the horse - with a rider getting tough I doubt the bucks are 'wee I am having fun bucks'.

 

[4whitesocks]

Fair enough GTS...I do understand your point & yours too HH - we don't school in the arena all the time - we jump at least once a week, he's hacked out by me or the YO once or twice a week & when it's dry enough we x-country. Today as the xcountry was too mucky we worked on jumping grids...started with serpentines with transitions across the school - trot walk trot walk trot and with the same in canter (was delighted that we got the canter leads right on both reins, use of the space wasn't so hot but baby steps..) I do think transitions really help 'waken him up' Potamus but I have usually predominantly worked on walk/trot as the canter leads had been causing problems but now that we seem to have cracked that I think canter transitions will help...
Anyway I left him on a relatively long rein for the whole lesson, didn't ask for too much but made sure to insist on 'forward' and backed my leg up with the tickle when he didn't respond (rather than persisting with the leg and getting nowhere). It was v effective and we managed to finish on a very good note
Thanks for the advice folks - will keep you posted

 

[Tinkerbee]

my method....attempt to keep their head up, stick legs out, seat deep and a good whack...stops Pinto!

 

[squirtlysmum]

Just a little food for thought! I have a four year old who consistently failed to go forward, my instructor and others all said, send him away to someone who will 'beat him into submission away from you so you're not watching', 'he's just a naughty youngster' and 'he's just a very spoilt horse', well I didn't take their advice and believed in what I felt that there was something wrong, he's now diagnosd with kissing spine. So just before people beat their horses into submission make sure you've investigated every option!!!And sometimes the professionals ARE WRONG!!!!!

 

[PapaFrita]

Antifaz used to buck for Argentina, and STILL likes to throw the odd one in just to make sure I'm paying attention. He, unlike your neddy, was rather badly treated before he came to me, ridden with a whip AND spurs, so I deliberately went the opposite way and never ONCE hit him (not that I wouldn't give a horse a smack should the circumstances require it) Instead, every time he started to think of bucking, I used to put him on a small circle which was very hard work for him (unbalanced as he was) and made it impossible for him to buck. Course he's very forward going so I don't need a schooling whip to send him on. Transitions will work wonders on your horse and I would try not to 'nag' with your leg, but just give the aid then back up with the whip. He'll catch on very quickly

Good luck

(Oh, I DID have the vet check him out just to make sure he wasn't being a sod because of pain, but if your horse is fine outside the school, it does suggest he's taking the p:ss!

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