SJ help pretty please!!

W

worMy

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19 October 2008
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www.katherinebegley.com
well as most of you know, **looks very sheepish**
my showjumping with belvedere isnt that great at the moment- knocking poles down in front (forgetting to pick up one of his front legs :P )

i will be doing lots of sj at 1m10 ish over the winter,
but is there anything you could suggest to hopefully improve the sj..?

thanks
 
Firstly as the eventing season is finished has he had a little MOT? (ie back, teeth etc checked) Just asking as some horses (including one of mine) are so honest and eager to please u don't realsie something is wrong as they are still trying there hearts out (you said he has forgotten to pick up a leg, may be a little sore from short/long/left/right stride).
Also good excersies to get them to snap up their front ends better are:
- high sided cross poles.
- Short bounces (4 or five) in a row
The bounces are good to alternate the height
Have one side of pole high and other on floor and vice-versa through the grid and u'll feel if he's stronger one way than the other
Or just cross-pole bounces (not too big to start with)
- 'V' poles onto jumps will encourage them to snap up quicker and stay straight
Hope these may be of some help
 
Oh and something u prob already do, have his leggys exposed (either tendon boots or nothing at all) and use heavy poles so if he touches it he knows about it!!
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(nasty me
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)
 
yeah he has tendon boots,,but considering jumping him with nothing! lol
thanks for the exersize tips!
belv is very clever--my sj trainer is graham law and he once used a little trick with belv,,had a plank at 1m10-1m15, nuthing underneath it, no ground line etc, and put the other plank flat along the top of it, he sed get belv deep, i want him to knock it.
no matter how deap i got him he refused to hit it, because he knew something was up and it must be a trick!!! BAHAHA ROFL!

anyway thanx,
and yes will think about getting his back checked out :P
 
is it always the same front leg he's tapping them with? was he more careful in the past?
i only ask because i've had experience of 2 different horses previously-careful doing this now, and both had the start of low-grade tendon problems.
it's worth feeling his legs really really carefully at 10 pm ish (this is the only time i've had small problems show up, they've been standing in for long enough for slight swellings and heat to show, if they're there) and, if you find anything, getting them scanned.
hope it's not that and is simply casualness that you can work on!
 
erm...yes its always one leg i think..but dont quote me on that,,i will have to go back and look at the videos!!
i cant comment on in the past becuase i got him in feb, and the previous rider was much better than me..
but it is clear from his record that he isnt a natural sjer, but does have the ability to go clear.
yup, will look into the feeling his legs at 10pm,,thats difficult though as he isnt at home..
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but deff sounds like a good idea.
thanx for the heads up!
 
I would get a lesson with someone good who should be able to help you far better than anyone on here can without seeing you riding Belvedere.
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I would get a lesson with someone good who should be able to help you far better than anyone on here can without seeing you riding Belvedere.
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haha yeah, at some point im going, with belv so a sjers yard for a week or so..
i think anyway,,
mum keeps saying shes gonna send me away to an sj yard for tuition anyway
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my bday and xmas presents gone for a few years!!!!!! all this expensive horse stuff!!!
 
I don't know anything about you or your horse so its difficult to suggest specific things to do with him to improve. All I would say is if he is a little blaze snd not careful perhaps don't jump him so frequently. Sometimes when you show jump your horse regularly to try and make them more careful, it can actually work the opposite, making them more careless, and therefore more likely to knock fences. Try not jumping him as often and see what happens. You *hopefully* will find he is more enthusiastic about not touching the fences. This seems to be particularly the case with the ultra bold xc horses!
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I would only do this if you absolutely know that the sj is not Your problem, and is his however. Otherwise I would work alongside your trainer, and do what he/she says. Hope this makes sense
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its not just him, and not just me.
often its my fault,,i find him hard to showjump and ive never really had proper sj training. lots of dressage- yes, and xc--well put it this way, 8 years of huinting, but sj..really not much.
its not my fortey, but its not belvs either,,so not the best mix!!!! haha lol
but i deff see where your comming from,
especially seeing as sj went downhill at the END of the season!

here are videos of us sjing, if anyone is interested..

2down:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc0B-BGpZ9A
1down
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S_UKxYqyXck
3down
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m5frcGCJu3Q

oh and i cringe showing you these vids, as i ride like a mupet in the sj..
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thanx
 
From the first one it doesnt look to me like you had enough canter, it looked nice and controlled but thats maybe the problem its too nice.

I was always taught if the canter feels nice then you havent got enough canter to jump from. J tends to have them down if I stay in that sort of easy canter, where as if you get him pinging a bit more then he really trys. Not more speed mind, just more umph...
 
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From the first one it doesnt look to me like you had enough canter, it looked nice and controlled but thats maybe the problem its too nice.

I was always taught if the canter feels nice then you havent got enough canter to jump from. J tends to have them down if I stay in that sort of easy canter, where as if you get him pinging a bit more then he really trys. Not more speed mind, just more umph...

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that sounds about right.
he loves his 'nice' canter,,and so do i!! it is very nice,, steady,,good rhythm,,calm,,etc but lacks jump--we get told off in dressage for that. comments often "canter lacks jump".
so that could well be an issue...
improving the canter is the tricky bit :P lol
hehe
 
I am always so pleased to get a 'nice dressage' canter out of mine, but actually its the worst thing to do with him as its too nice to jump from. On the other hand he would much rather go everywhere at XC speed which isnt so good in a small arena, so we are working on containing that canter to a bouncy SJing one
 
Yep! And if you think your SJing rcord is bad, J had 5 down at Keysoe as was the first time he jumped on a surface that season and we just couldnt get the canter right, either too fast and flat or slow with no umph. But the week later we learnt our lesson and he jumped a great clear at Oasby so it is fixable
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well shame about the 5,,but then i did have 4 at aldon!
but im very jealous of your clear!!!! WELL DONE!!
id love to have just 4 faults at BE at the moment!!!! PC/unaff always seems to go better sj than BE where theres a record of it!!! blumming typical!
 
hmm, it's not that bad, honestly. i just think his and your whole way of going is a bit too flat and onward bound, basically every canter stride is a bit too long and flat. you need to feel as if he could lengthen or shorten at any moment (sj and xc!), your siggy pic is a prime example - yes, good style in that his knees are up etc, your position is good, but your take-off spot is a long way off, and so the parabola of the jump is quite flat. you need to teach him to get deeper and really have to use his back in a proper bascule. this will make the sj better and the xc safer! I know he's going clear xc but he's finding it very easy at the moment... however, Int would be a different matter i think. you look as if you don't really set him up for the fences, but it would help to improve the jump. (e.g. in the first xc clip, i honestly thought you'd finished the round... then you turned right and jumped a fence! your body language did not make it look as if you were preparing him for a fence at all, hope you see what i mean.)
In clinics Ginny Elliot used to make us come repeatedly to a small fence (about a foot high, no bigger) in canter and get very deep every time, to teach the horse to snap up in front, and jump up not across the fence. she swore it had saved her a few times! i'd have your lad doing this, and doing grids with short distances for both of you to feel the difference in the jump when you come from a deeper spot. a grid with slightly raised canter poles in the gaps between fences, so you keep the jump in the canter strides, would be good.
if he remains casual in front, high X poles on short distances, e.g. a grid of X bounce X stride X stride XI (crosspole with level back bar, moving it up and out after a few goes). This will show him that he can snap up from short distances, and then open up and out.
i agree with the above comments about the canter - it needs to be shorter with more punch off the floor, this would really help, i think. you just need to find a way to get this without offending him, some horses don't like feeling pushed into a new way of going.
hope that all makes sense. best of luck!
 
I agree with pretty much everything Kerilli has said - you and he look very comfortable standing off everything, and you both need to get used to/happy with getting in deep
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FWIW when he ended up deep in the SJ video he tried really hard and cleared the fence so I don't think he is naturally careless, just a bit long and flat as others have said. So I would 1) Yes, work on the canter, needs to be rounder and more engaged. Do lengthening and shortening within the canter on straight lines and circles, spiralling circles in to about 10m then back out again etc. At least this will make your dressage work more interesting as you can tell yourself it will be improving all three phases at once
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2) Practise getting him really deep to his fences, using all the exercises people have suggested, also Matt Ryan makes you trot to an upright in a really really slow trot, not allowing them to take off till they are practically touching the pole. He puts it up gradually till you end up coming in to up to about 1.15m or more in this way (depends how athletic the horse is - the idea is to make them work really hard) If they take off too early, you have too much trot and need to slow down even more till they are practically crawling
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It's a good exercise to familiarise both you and your horse with getting really deep, to train him to snap his knees up really neatly, and gives you confidence if you ever end up in a sticky situation XC eg sharp turn to a long route after a problem - you find yourself in trot one stride from a 1.20 solid fence. It hasn't happened to you yet but you are 15 and however good you are xc, believe me one day it will
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And you don't need an expert helper on the ground, just someone who can pout the pole up and up so Mum or friend can do it for you.

Hope this helps! You look like a lovely partnertship BTW and really trust each other, just a bit casual at times
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yep, TableDancer's right, that would be a good exercise for you. also jumping from walk does the same thing, takes a bit of getting used to but it's a real "get out of jail free" card if a horse slips into a fence xc or something. as TD says, these things will happen, and it's how you both cope with it that matters. if you go in as slowly as pos (i was taught to halt a stride or 2 from the fence if the horse continued to take me to it too fast, and then walk 1 step and hup) the horse will have to use his body, i.e. his athleticism not his speed to get him over, which can only help.
 
I agree 100% with kerilli, of course it all makes sense, and also agree with Tabledancer. Thanks to both for putting those wise thoughts into writing!
I always train practising getting the horse deep into the fence, and this has saved me a couple of times; the horse learns to solve problems in the safe way.
Both of you look well worMy, keep training; nothing replaces good training.
 
Hi, new here! I agree with much of the above advice. However I would encourage you to keep the tendon boots on for jumping. Also from videos it looks a little like you are riding your jumps quiet passively. Try some really basic pole work, such as poles on floor, with eg 5 short or 4 long strides between them so you can really feel how different the canter can and should be. Once you have the hang of ths introduce cross-poles. Note of caution, if you go to a showjumping yard, make sure they understand you are training for eventing!! You do not want him to get so obsessed with clearing fences he looses confidence over the 'immovable' xc course.
Also, one of my showjumping horses improved his clear round score after intensive dressage, not showjumping training!?
 
some very good advice on here, and I agree with all the ideas. He looked to me to take some of the fences with his back legs? This would be down to the canter being a bit flat and the take off point a little off the perfect point meaning your horse is jumping a little flat and not basculing (sp!) My horse is the same and I need enough pace that I can shorten or legthen him easily. I practice putting different stides in combinations, ie on a 4 stride distance I will do it on 4, 5 and 6, getting as close to the first fence as possible. Although mine will always be careless he has jumped a 4 fault and a clear round at novice this year and gives me hope for next year after intensive BSJA and BE this winter.

Good luck!
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thanx guys, the advice is great!!
sorry i cant reply to them all individually as loads of you have offered ideas!! thanx

and its always his front end,,even if it looks like his back, because when he has one down, i watch the good quality vid (not youtube one) and go frame by frame to see which leg!!
his front end is the weeker end which is why i need to stay off his front,,and sit up more over the jumps
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so thanks again so much!!
xx
 
oh and special thanx for table dancer and kerilli for those long posts,, you clearly put lots of thought into them,
and thanx about the partnership comments! lol

xc wise,,i promise i set him up more for combinations :P LOL!!!
and yes in my siggie we did take of early!!!! :O
but yes you raise a good point!
thanx again
x
 
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