Smacking to reprimand after naughty spooking

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Willow2

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classicequestrian.co.uk
Interested in your thoughts/opinions on this. If I’m riding my horse along and I feel he’s looking at something, getting ready to spook, and if I can tell he’s not genuinely worried or scared I feel very comfortable to back up my leg aids with my whip.

However, on some occasions he will either do a very quick sharp spook or a 180 degree spin, completely out of the blue, so no warning. There is always something that you can spot is the cause of the spook but it is usually minor and so I feel there is an element of ‘piss take’ in these spooks. He is not a particularly nervy horse by nature.

Third parties are advising me to smack him to reprimand him after the spook has happened and I’m not quite sure how I feel about this. I want to let him know that the ‘piss take’ spook is not acceptable behaviour and in theory if I could react quick enough to smack him while he’s spooking or spinning then that would be fine, but my reactions aren’t quick enough. In the practical real world does it get the message across if I smack him after the event.

Following a sharp spook or spin he happily goes forward with no problems, so it’s not a napping issue at all.
All your thoughts appreciated. Thanks.
 
My opinion is that horse's don't spook for no reason, and that to smack them for spooking from something they are afraid of just reinforces that they were right - there really WAS something to be frightened of as just look how mum reacted.

If you feel your horse tensing up getting ready to spook, or if he is being a "tourist" and paying no attention to you, put him to work. Do some shoulder in or leg yield, maybe change pace, or push one of your seatbones down to get an ear back to you. Whatever you need to do to get him focused back on you.

IMHO smacking him would serve absolutely no useful purpose at all, and could make him worse.
 
I find growling or using my cross voice is effective with my horse (frightens most people on the yard too!). If I smacked him he'd get cross and we'd end up in an arguement whereas if I tell him off verbally he knows he's done wrong but doesn't get in a state about it.
 
didnt know a horse spooked to be naughty as such?-they spook if they are scared and napping is being naughty. imagine if you were scared of something and then somebdy whacked you for it.wouldnt that make you more apprehensive?? just a thaught.
 
My 4 year old spooks just for entertainment when he is feeling well. I let it go the first time with a cross voice, but then he may get a smack. However, when he is genuinely nervous of somthing new I would not do this, I soothe him or laugh it off and he takes reassurance from this. you need to know your horse obviously to tell the differences! It's hard to know sometimes when they are taking the mickey!
 
Mine used to be very spooky - still is at times but much better than he was. Smacking is pointless with him as he is argumentative & serves no purpose if he is spooky as it would wind him up even more.

I just ignore it when he does it - don't react at all. When he has finished his side-stepping, spinning etc, I just ask him to move forward again like nothing has happened. If I don't react, he realises that there was nothing to be scared of & is so much better as a result
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It has worked for us!

If he is being naughty & over-reacting (which I believe is sometimes the case!), not getting a reaction from me makes it a waste of time, so he doesn't bother!
 
I see spooking as being unsure. I have found when I ride positively mine is fine, but if I let him dilly dally along he ends to spook.
I don't think a smack is proper for a spook as I doubt they learn anything.
 
You will never know if your horse is piss taking or genuine...horses can appear to spook because they have seen something and want to get a better look at it to make sure it is not a danger to them and so turn quickly to look better...this to us is a spook! Remember that horse have crap vision straight under their noses and in front of them too, which does not help. I would never smack a spook because you will never ever time it just right so the horse spooks because it is unsure of something and it then gets a smack...this just confirms in the horses mind that he was right to be worried! If a horse is unsure of something it needs to take confidence from it's rider that it will not be hurt and it can go past the scary thing without worrying...smacking it will not do this.
We as humans can only ever guess at what goes through a horses mind and it is wrong to assume it was being naughty...we don't know that. I have always ignored the quick spooks that you can do nothing about and just quietly turned the horse back and asked it to carry on, whilst giving it plenty of praise for getting past the scary thing. This may not be everyones cup of tea but my horse has grown in confidence by using these techniques and we don't get into big arguements at all.
Encourage and reassure your horse and he will spook less and less.
 
I agree with the above, one of the things that has worked well for me is to put my upper body back behind the vertical as soon as I feel any possible attempt to slow or spook and then gently put my leg on to ask for forwards, it encourages weight on to their hocks so in theory they feel safer and they know you are confidently riding them forward and are in control. If you do feel any nerves at all when the spooking happens try to be an actor and relax, if need be take your whole leg off from the hip, I found any tension in me got transferred to the horse pretty quickly and was not very helpful! If you wallop them I think it makes them worse and they get more uptight.
 
I tend to ignore general spooking/shying, maybe a tap down the shoulder but that is it.
However, spinning round is dirty and if nipped in the bud early is generally stopped.
Any of mine that do it havea hefty crack round the ass, you usually only have to do it once or twice before they snap out of it.
However you do need to ctach them right, dont let them come round and smack them when they are facing the way you were going. Anything else is pointless.
If you arent quick enough to stop her spinning consider putting someone on who is.
 
Just remain calm and act like nothing has happened, they soon learn that scary bushes etc are no longer scary. If I start to climb up the reins or tense my horse instantly tenses and is much more likely to spook, spin and flight
 
I agree with those above who say it very much depends on your horse. Both my older mare and my OH's mare seem like they have been punished for spooking at some point. My old mare, when I first had her, would spook at something and then fly into a complete panic, bucking, shaking, just completely set on getting whoever was on her back, off! she eventually learnt to trust me but even then when she spooked, her heartrate would race so fast you could feel it hrough her saddle. So I would never ever punish either of them for spooking, you just sit there, keep them facing towards the scary object, reassure them and then push them on.
However my little lad has never been scared or upset by anyone using a whip etc around him, and he does spook at things as an excuse to mess about...I think you need to know your horse very well though, and like vicjp above, if he tries to spin away, or plant and refuse to go past, he will be reminded with a smack...if I am carrying a whip, I usually don't. Otherwise a good growl and a bit of a 'pony club kick' (sorry, no offence intended to PC people!) usually reminds him how to behave!
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i think ive found a cure!!!! day before yesterday i borrowed my friends balance strap fitted to the d rings on the front of the saddle went out on my spooky pony ( who the day before had been really spooky with sharer woulndt go forward ended up in wheat field) so i went out with trepidation with the 'strap on!!!!?????' held it in one hand reins and whip in the other - DEEP JOY! no spooks or refusals coz i felt safe and not tipped forward as the strap pulls you down into the saddle. Sharer rode with it last night in the field with the rabbits and hares jumping out of holes - no spooks at all - Just a though, might be worth a try!!!
 
All depends on the horse. I have ridden many horses, some are genuine nervous types and a couple - normally old cheeky ponies are not scared but know they can spin and remove their riders.

With the latter I will give a smack up the backside as they go to spin or if too fast, get moved back in the right direction asap with a smack on the behind and a growl. One of the old mares on yard took a couple of reminders but soon realised that sharp spins were not acceptable. She has removed several riders in the past with this method.

Mind you, she is a crafty old girl and if you relax too much, she will put in a spin when you least expect it. Managed to get me once when I was not giving 100% attention and I ended up round her neck and decided to let gravity take over - she is only 14 hands so not far to drop.
 
I wouldn't smack as punishment for spooking because it just makes them even more aprehensive. I do sometimes give a tap down the shoulder just to get their attention back but that is about it.

One of mine is a real master at stopping dead & spinning round - in all paces - the amount of times we've been happily cantering along & I get chucked out the side door is quite unbelievable! I have found though that mine always spins to the left so I carry my whip in my left hand - sometimes I'm quick enough to give him a tap down the shoulder mid spin but if I'm not quick enough I just ignore it & carry on!

I was always taught to ignore bad behaviour & praise good behaviour
 
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IMO the whip should be used to back up leg only and certainly not as a form of punishment

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Generally I would agree with this, however......

When the Baggage started playing up on the drive the other night, backing into the hedges & clearly considering building herself up to a major strop, she got one single smack with the stick, instantly!
I am certain that any other course of action would have resulted in a full-blown argument but as it was, she gave in instantly, went out like a lamb & was good as gold the entire time she was out!

I should add, we seldom use sticks on our ponies full-stop & yes, they are mainly there as a back-up to a leg aid but in this instance MD knew the difference between nerves & stropping, or she wouldn't have done what she did, nor would the result have been as expected!
It wasn't vindictive, just a short, sharp reminder to say 'Pack it in now, don't even go there.....!'
 
I suppose you need to think about timing, and what you aim to teach. I'm not into "smacking", but I would reinforce my leg aids with a touch from my stick, or some other added incentive (like slapping my boot with the stick... a variety of things). If your timing is right, then I think the horse will understand that you are adding something to your initial request.
But if the horse is scared and needs more time to think about things, you do run the risk of making them even more scared next time. As they can associate the unpleasant feelings you are adding with the tense feeling when they got worried. If that makes sense.
Very often I see smacks with sticks, which I hate anyway, administered with such bad timing that the rider is punishing the horse, and punishing it for doing the right thing. Equines live in the moment, they don't realise that something is happening to them as a result of something they did 2 minutes ago. Not saying you would do this, but you do need to be careful I think you will be from what you have already said. The really glaring example that comes to mind was something I saw at Felbridge in a jumping comp. Child was booting pony at jumps, but hanging on to the mouth hard at the same time and jabbing the pony onlanding, so the pony started to stop. Because every time the poor sod cleared a jump it got socked in the mouth. Child fell off a few times, with mum screaming in the background to "smack 'im hard!". (I despair of the stewards and judges sometimes, they should have stepped in). Then, to make matters worse, pony was taken out of the arena, to the mounting block, where it stood nicely for mum to get on. Mum obviously thought pony needed to be taught a lesson, so as soon as she was on she whacked him hard three times with the whip. Then rode him hard and clumsily round to sort him out. So pony learnt that if he stood nicely to be mounted he would be hit...
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An extreme example, but I hope it explains what I mean. It's easy to slip over the line between reinforcement and punishment.
 
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