Snapping her teeth at me when I saddle her...

Michen

Michen

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 January 2014
Messages
12,789
Visit site
So the paranoid part of me is slightly concerned by just how much of a cowbag she is to saddle. She was the same (though I'm pretty sure not as bad or I would have noticed more) when I viewed her but I think had a bit more respect for her previous owner than me currently. As soon as she sees her saddle the ears go back a little but nothing drastic. She doesn't move around, I can tack her up loose in her stable. But my god does she snap her teeth, she wouldn't dare connect but I can literally hear them snapping! She does it as soon as you place saddle on her back and a little but when you do up the girth. She doesn't do it if something is distracting her.

This all sounds quite drastic but the bizarre thing is that when I had the saddler out last week and we were trying multiple saddles, she didn't bat an eyelid when she was then untacked and retacked several times? Not so much a flick of the ear. Similarly if I take the saddle off and re saddle her after a ride she is fine. She is totally fine to mount, no signs whatsoever of being cold backed under saddle at all. Saddler gave her a good check over for soreness and couldn't find anything, though she will be having routine physio when I can get an appointment.

She does occasionally snap her teeth when I'm putting on brushing boots as well, and once when I did up the front of her rug. I'm inclined to always think behaviour like the above is a pain issue but it doesn't really make sense. Perhaps she really just is a stroppy mare and rather sensitive? She has a lined sheepskin numnah.

I don't particularly want to yell at her for it, especially when she doesn't actually do anything over than make noise. Has anyone had a mare like this that genuinely is just a bit of a pain to tack up? She is very, very thin skinned...I'm inclined not to look for issues given she is loose, relaxed and happy under saddle but it is a bit odd. However I am new to mare ownership so perhaps that's half the problem....

Edited to add she passed a 5 stage vetting a few weeks ago- not that it is hugely related.
 
Last edited:
If you want to stop the behaviour, here are some tips: http://intheequinemind.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/when-your-horse-has-other-ideas-tacking.html It's aimed at a more severe issue but the same method can be used and it's completely non-violent (no shouting either). The "maintining this behaviour" bit at the end might be most relevant and useful in your scenario.

Saying that, my first inclination would be to get a second opinion on the saddle. I've seen a horse go from pawing the ground unhappily to totally ignoring the saddle and standing still with a single change of saddle... And then to get a vet to check for stomach ulcers. Many, many horses have ulcers that largely go unnoticed as they are mild and come and go - but they often snap a little when tacking up.

I haven't met many horses that are simply grumpy for the sake of being grumpy and almost always when tacking up was the issue, I eventually find some underlying problem. As she only does it in certain contexts, it does sound more behavioural (and could very well be due to a previous unpleasant experience). But then you can also see how she might ignore something mildly painful if she's been experiencing something worse for the last hour... And you wouldn't really expect her to react at a saddle fitting anyway. She might react the first time, anticipating the girth etc... But then after multiple saddles tried on, where some were removed immediately, the saddle would no longer be a salient cue to anticipating pain so she'd stop reacting.

I'd also be curious to see, as a little test, what happens if you take her out and lunge her on a halter for 5 minutes and then tack up.
 
My old mare didn't snap her teeth at me but she had quite definite ideas as to which saddles she liked and didn't like! As soon as I came out of the tack room with the saddle she would either stand quietly or flash her ears back and shuffle about. Both saddles were the same colour and fitted to her but one of them she just didn't take to.

Could your mare be coming into season?
 
I've got one - she snaps when you're tacking up, grooming, bathing - but never at the farrier, and she's only ever once made contact; her response suggested she'd startled herself by doing so! We're just used to it now.
 
Personally I wouldn't take much notice of the vetting they are not looking for the kinds of things that could be worrying your mare.
I have a mare who was the same, although as she is a Draft horse, so at the opposite end of the spectrum to look at!. Her previous owner told me that she bit , so she always bridled her and fastened the flash before putting on the saddle, and she had her tied up.
I found that her browband was too tight, so swapped that immediately (and threw away the flash, I hate them). I stripped the saddle of numnah and girth, made sure that the stirrups weren't clanking and always gave her some hay to nibble. I ignored her if she threatened and she has never connected. She learned that I was always careful and that her tack fitted, so over time she is much less wary. Now I don't do anything different with her form any other horse when tacking up.

BUT I give her Aloe Vera for her digestive system, in case she is prone to ulcers and most recently I have stopped giving her wheat in any form whatsoever - she now gets carrots as rewards, rather than horse treats. Her skin is now much less sensitive and she is less grumpy, although still very opinionated(!). I always know when her tack needs adjusting as she snaps her teeth when I am tacking up.

She is actually one of the most affectionate horse I have ever had.
 
Not concerned about the saddle, she did it with the saddle I rode in a few days when she first arrived as well. When she was being fitted we tried a fair few and the difference in her length of stride in this one was great. She didn't feel bad before but the difference was noticeable so I'm confident the saddle fits though if anything changes it will of course be re checked/second opinion.

I think quite likely, having found out a bit of history, she has been ridden in a badly fitting saddle in the past.
 
eggs said:
My old mare didn't snap her teeth at me but she had quite definite ideas as to which saddles she liked and didn't like! As soon as I came out of the tack room with the saddle she would either stand quietly or flash her ears back and shuffle about. Both saddles were the same colour and fitted to her but one of them she just didn't take to.

Could your mare be coming into season?
Click to expand...


She was in season when I tried her so in theory not ...
 
Barnacle said:
If you want to stop the behaviour, here are some tips: http://intheequinemind.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/when-your-horse-has-other-ideas-tacking.html It's aimed at a more severe issue but the same method can be used and it's completely non-violent (no shouting either). The "maintining this behaviour" bit at the end might be most relevant and useful in your scenario.

Saying that, my first inclination would be to get a second opinion on the saddle. I've seen a horse go from pawing the ground unhappily to totally ignoring the saddle and standing still with a single change of saddle... And then to get a vet to check for stomach ulcers. Many, many horses have ulcers that largely go unnoticed as they are mild and come and go - but they often snap a little when tacking up.

I haven't met many horses that are simply grumpy for the sake of being grumpy and almost always when tacking up was the issue, I eventually find some underlying problem. As she only does it in certain contexts, it does sound more behavioural (and could very well be due to a previous unpleasant experience). But then you can also see how she might ignore something mildly painful if she's been experiencing something worse for the last hour... And you wouldn't really expect her to react at a saddle fitting anyway. She might react the first time, anticipating the girth etc... But then after multiple saddles tried on, where some were removed immediately, the saddle would no longer be a salient cue to anticipating pain so she'd stop reacting.

I'd also be curious to see, as a little test, what happens if you take her out and lunge her on a halter for 5 minutes and then tack up.
Click to expand...


These where ridden in, got off, changed tack tried on type thing. Not just popping them on and then off. Poor mare worked hard that day! We did a good ten mins in each saddle as well.
 
my thoughts would be ulcers - when my mare's ulcers are flared up she swings her head round when I groom her girth area and during tacking up
 
swilliam said:
I've got one - she snaps when you're tacking up, grooming, bathing - but never at the farrier, and she's only ever once made contact; her response suggested she'd startled herself by doing so! We're just used to it now.
Click to expand...

When I do raise my voice to her she flicks her ears forward and blows gently in my face like butter wouldn't melt!!! Bizarre mare
 
she looks a lovely mare. I am still finding it impossible to find any horse at all! Saw one yday which ticked all the boxes, being lame on right hind - quite obvious!

No idea if she came with saddle etc but I'd maybe think about starting from scratch with saddles/girths. Every horse I've tried so far seems to end up having a 'one saddle fits all' dumped on their backs which makes me cringe having to ride in it!
 
No no she was fitted with a nice new shiney one asap ( though ridden in a friends for a few days and behaviour was the same then) The saddle I bought was the one she went a huge amount nicer in, nice big long stride. So not worried about the saddle in particular.

Are you looking for the expensive option or an ex racer? I know of a really lovely expensive ex racer for sale if that's any good, she's in berkshire?

Tiarella said:
she looks a lovely mare. I am still finding it impossible to find any horse at all! Saw one yday which ticked all the boxes, being lame on right hind - quite obvious!

No idea if she came with saddle etc but I'd maybe think about starting from scratch with saddles/girths. Every horse I've tried so far seems to end up having a 'one saddle fits all' dumped on their backs which makes me cringe having to ride in it!
Click to expand...
 
I had a gelding that was similar, he had several other symptoms so was scoped but he had no ulcers, he had come with 2 "fitted" saddles one was obviously too narrow so was not used and he gradually grew out of the other as he built up more topline, it took months for him to totally relax being tacked up following new saddles and plenty of physio and even then he would sometimes revert if you rushed to tack him up.
I think it can be in their head, especially if they have had a badly fitting saddle on long term with possibly a less than sympathetic rider as well!!
 
Indeed- we both know she's had that in the past. She does make a lot of noise in general, it's quite amusing when you do her brushing boots and you have your back turned. She thinks you can't see her do it and as soon as you turn to look at her the ears go forward and she goes all gooey. Not quite the same with the saddle but you get the jist.

I do have three syringes of gastroguard actually, I might use them up and see if there's any difference.


be positive said:
I had a gelding that was similar, he had several other symptoms so was scoped but he had no ulcers, he had come with 2 "fitted" saddles one was obviously too narrow so was not used and he gradually grew out of the other as he built up more topline, it took months for him to totally relax being tacked up following new saddles and plenty of physio and even then he would sometimes revert if you rushed to tack him up.
I think it can be in their head, especially if they have had a badly fitting saddle on long term with possibly a less than sympathetic rider as well!!
Click to expand...
 
from what you say Michen, my theory would be painful saddle in the past and she does not yet trust that saddle won't hurt her again. My late mare was like this when I first had her. I did a combination of giving her Oestress (she also showed some other mareish tendencies) and being very, very gentle when saddling, always. Never thumped it down on her back or yanked girth up tight, always spoke to her in a quiet voice when doing it. gradually over a few months she stopped objecting to the saddle going on.
I would still say that ulcers could be a possibility with yours though - lots of experience of those on here.
Good luck with her, we need more pics! :)
 
album.php


Possiblity that she rejects the un matching bling? Not sure I'd be too happy if I was dressed up in this either, let alone the fact there is gold bling mixed with silver bling mixed with pearls.

Tobiano said:
from what you say Michen, my theory would be painful saddle in the past and she does not yet trust that saddle won't hurt her again. My late mare was like this when I first had her. I did a combination of giving her Oestress (she also showed some other mareish tendencies) and being very, very gentle when saddling, always. Never thumped it down on her back or yanked girth up tight, always spoke to her in a quiet voice when doing it. gradually over a few months she stopped objecting to the saddle going on.
I would still say that ulcers could be a possibility with yours though - lots of experience of those on here.
Good luck with her, we need more pics! :)
Click to expand...
 
Michen said:
Are you looking for the expensive option or an ex racer? I know of a really lovely expensive ex racer for sale if that's any good, she's in berkshire?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. I either want a cheap ex racer or a 4-6k horse. Nothing in between as they all seem to have poor conformation and just don't do anything for me. I want a clean slate, or something that is more capable of doing what I want straight away. Going to visit three counties equestrian mid August to see what he has.
 
be positive said:
I had a gelding that was similar, he had several other symptoms so was scoped but he had no ulcers, he had come with 2 "fitted" saddles one was obviously too narrow so was not used and he gradually grew out of the other as he built up more topline, it took months for him to totally relax being tacked up following new saddles and plenty of physio and even then he would sometimes revert if you rushed to tack him up.
I think it can be in their head, especially if they have had a badly fitting saddle on long term with possibly a less than sympathetic rider as well!!
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Of course it depends on the individual horse, but my gelding had a horrendously fitting saddle before I bought him, which made his back sore. He had a good rest from riding and lunge exercises to get him carrying himself properly again, as well as osteopath visits, and regular checks on his back and saddle. During and after riding, he shows no sign of pain or discomfort, and if he's distracted while tacking up he doesn't react at all to the saddle going on. If he focuses on the approaching saddle he can put his ears back, and swish his tail. He used to snap his teeth as well, but is becoming used to the saddle being fine, and it's very rare for him to do this now. I got him a lovely sheepskin numnah which seemed to help too.
 
But that would be so boring?! Why get something with no problems when you can have a snappy, opinionated mare who may or may not have kissing spines? One can only laugh. To be fair, I don't think she has a problem. I think she's had several in the past and hasn't always been treated with much sensitivity.

Bonkers2 said:
Michen, I thought you were going to get something with no problems!
Click to expand...
 
Tiarella said:
I have no idea. I either want a cheap ex racer or a 4-6k horse. Nothing in between as they all seem to have poor conformation and just don't do anything for me. I want a clean slate, or something that is more capable of doing what I want straight away. Going to visit three counties equestrian mid August to see what he has.
Click to expand...

PM Queenie_ on here :)
 
I would imagine she has had someone just be a bit 'quick' and sharp with her. So many people just tug the girth up straight away and she is maybe expecting that to happen. FWIW did the saddler try on the saddles in stable or tied up outside? If you tack up inside and saddler was outside maybe that is the difference. It does sound like she is expecting something to happen and maybe with the quiet sensitive handling will settle down. Might be also worth just putting saddle on randomly - even if not riding for 5-10 mins to de-sensitise to some degree? Good luck Michen - I am sure she will settle down :)
 
As shEs seeing the Physio, this will either rule out or confirm any problems re saddle so that should be another box ticked��
 
We tried on several saddles in the stable and she was a snappy cow. Tried on several saddles in the school, getting on and off and saddling and re mounting and not a single whisper from her! Strange mare. Thanks for your help :)

Hetsmum said:
I would imagine she has had someone just be a bit 'quick' and sharp with her. So many people just tug the girth up straight away and she is maybe expecting that to happen. FWIW did the saddler try on the saddles in stable or tied up outside? If you tack up inside and saddler was outside maybe that is the difference. It does sound like she is expecting something to happen and maybe with the quiet sensitive handling will settle down. Might be also worth just putting saddle on randomly - even if not riding for 5-10 mins to de-sensitise to some degree? Good luck Michen - I am sure she will settle down :)
Click to expand...
 
I had a youngster that had been ridden in a saddle that was too narrow causing muscle soreness behind shoulders, she would only react when initially doing girth up and putting saddle on - never when girth tightened or if tied up. Luckily for her I listened to her, she had physio and is now fine - if she ever turns to me and flicks her ears back then I will know to get saddle and back checked again.

So my advice would be listen to her, she is shouting something.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top