So Fed up with my youngster :-((((

[opinionuk]

I am so disheartened with my youngster, this evening I decided to do some lunging a bit of ground work with her as her manners on the ground are bad she is very bolshy and bargy.

She went lovely on the lunge, on her toes but generally good and responsive, after we had finished the lunging she isn't the bravest of mares so I thought I would take small steps in introducing some things that she will come across so she had already seen them at home, so I put down some plastic for her to walk over no problem at all she happily went over that! I then put a coloured plank on the ground for her to look at and walk over inhand with me she was fine at first but ever time after that decided she wanted to canter over it and pulled the line right through my fingers and galloped around the school!

I didn't think it was unreasonable asking her to walk over a plank as she has been around a set of bright showjumps before, once she knew she had the upper hand she basically dragged me around when she felt like it. I put the dually headcollar on her as her manners are usually good in this and I thought it would get her calm and under control before I took her in rather than ending on a bad note that will give her the idea that its ok to drag me about. It calmed her a little and we managed to finish our session on an 'ok' note.

I just feel like i'm going one step forward and 20 back, its not all bad 6 months ago I couldn't get her out on a hack without rearing and spinning around we now manage to hack out on our own 90% of the time without any incidents so thats progress.
I've got a lesson tomorrow which involves taking her in the trailer 9 she never used to load but touch wood she has walked in first time in last 3 months) to the instructor, getting her travel boots on is a task in itself but she is improving, I love riding her but her behaviour is getting beyond a joke i have no idea what to do next

I love riding her but her manners when I take her anywhere are just horrendous it spoils the whole experience :-(

I am soooooooooooooooooooooooo fed up :-(

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

No offence but you seriously need to put your foot down and give her a good telling off every time she misbehaves. It sounds as though she is taking the total and utter mick. I don't mean battering her or screaming at her but growling and well timed reprimands, along with praise when she has done well, work wonders.

How did you overcome the hacking problems? Could you not transfer those methods to the ground? Failing that kick her out for the winter and let her grow up. Do the bare minimum with her, that would be my personal choice.

 

[MrVelvet]

hmm I was always taught to never let a youngster 1) get you off 2) get away from you. I appreciate this isn't easy and I am sorry that I have little advice other than that

I suggest perhaps getting an instructor or more experienced person in to give her a good telling off and instill some manners?

I do not mean to be patronising so I hope it hasn't come across this way. My only other advice would be to lead her from a bit and with good gloves on and anchor when she tries to bog off! I used to pull my rude youngster round on a tight circle when he tried to rear/run off, which worked!!

Good Luck x

 

[Miss L Toe]

I am so disheartened with my youngster, this evening I decided to do some lunging a bit of ground work with her as her manners on the ground are bad she is very bolshy and bargy.

She went lovely on the lunge, on her toes but generally good and responsive, after we had finished the lunging she isn't the bravest of mares so I thought I would take small steps in introducing some things that she will come across so she had already seen them at home, so I put down some plastic for her to walk over no problem at all she happily went over that! I then put a coloured plank on the ground for her to look at and walk over inhand with me she was fine at first but ever time after that decided she wanted to canter over it and pulled the line right through my fingers and galloped around the school!

I didn't think it was unreasonable asking her to walk over a plank as she has been around a set of bright showjumps before, once she knew she had the upper hand she basically dragged me around when she felt like it. I put the dually headcollar on her as her manners are usually good in this and I thought it would get her calm and under control before I took her in rather than ending on a bad note that will give her the idea that its ok to drag me about. It calmed her a little and we managed to finish our session on an 'ok' note.

I just feel like i'm going one step forward and 20 back, its not all bad 6 months ago I couldn't get her out on a hack without rearing and spinning around we now manage to hack out on our own 90% of the time without any incidents so thats progress.
I've got a lesson tomorrow which involves taking her in the trailer 9 she never used to load but touch wood she has walked in first time in last 3 months) to the instructor, getting her travel boots on is a task in itself but she is improving, I love riding her but her behaviour is getting beyond a joke i have no idea what to do next

I love riding her but her manners when I take her anywhere are just horrendous it spoils the whole experience :-(

I am soooooooooooooooooooooooo fed up :-(

Err what age are you, you sound rather like a child, but you expect your horse to behave like an adult. I don't think you are ready for this,

 

[tallyho!]

Just don't LET her do it me thinks someone needs to be "cross mummy".

 

[Holly Hocks]

So basically you're peed off because your youngster wouldn't walk over a plank?
From what you said, it sounds like there are more positives than negatives - hacks out 90% of the time on her own, loads when she didn't used to load and you enjoy riding her. What's the problem?

 

[winterwood]

I think you should be able to sort out her manners without too much difficulty.

I would put the Dually halter and a long line (at least 12ft) on her, take her into the school and start to take control of her feet. If she trys to pull away/tank off take a step away from her and brace yourself so that she 'runs into the dually'. Immediately release any pressure when she tops.

Here are some things you can try


Horses being horses there will be times when things may take a step backwards during the training or ongoing handling of your horse. Don’t worry, this is perfectly normal, we do after all have ‘off’ days occasionally as do our horses! However if you are calm and consistent when working with your horse, you will soon get back on track.

HALTER WORK :

Start
To begin with, stand next to your horse’s head, give him a little stroke and then walk around his nose and circle to the right. Remember to walk confidently and have a nice loose rope between you and your horse, do not hold under the chin. He should start to walk with you. If not, don’t stop and wait, keep walking and he will feel the pressure of the rope tightening, if this happens be sure to release any pressure as soon as he moves. Do this a few times in each direction, to really get your horse understanding that when you move he moves. This is the start of showing him that you are an effective leader in whom he can have confidence.
Generally speaking the horse needs to have his nose at or just behind your shoulder when being led.. If he gets in front ask him back by applying pressure to the lead rope, be effective when doing this, but release the pressure and give him a stroke as soon as the horse is back where he should be.

Stop
Ideally your horse should stop when you stop without overtaking or bumping into you. So we need to set a boundary regarding our space. To test this, simply walk along leading your horse on a nice loose rope and then stop. If he overtakes or bumps you, immediately back him up a step and release any pressure when he has done so. Of course, if he does stop nicely give him a stroke. Another way is to ask your horse to stop quite firmly when you stop (3 times) and see if he picks it up this way, don’t forget to reward your horse with a nice head rub or stroke when he gets it right

Back Up
Stand on the near side of your horse, a little in front of him, facing his tail, holding the rope with your left hand near the clip under your horse’s chin. As you take a step towards the back of your horse, apply some pressure to the lead rope, sometimes a jerky on/off pressure can work well. If your horse takes a step backwards, or even attempts to, release the pressure and praise him. Very soon he will be moving backwards willingly with light pressure. We are only looking for two or three steps.

Stand
Using a long lead rope, stand directly in front of your horse, facing his nose. Adopt an assertive position (Stand up tall, nice square shoulders) and look your horse in the eye. Slowly back away from him, letting some rope out as you go. If he attempts to walk towards you raise a hand, or both hands. If this is ineffective give the lead rope a shake (we are only looking to stop him coming forwards, not back him up). Once he has stood for a short period, drop eye contact, adopt ‘softer’ body language and ask him to come to you by applying a little pressure to the lead rope. Remember he is still to respect your space, so don’t allow him to come in really close, unless of course you ‘invite’ him into your space!

The above exercises are good for setting a foundation of mutual respect between you and your horse. It is the start of getting your horse to understand that you are an effective leader, in whom he can trust and have confidence.
To keep things interesting for you both, you can incorporate obstacles and have a specific route in mind, whilst carrying out the above halter work.

Key notes

Short regular sessions are best
Don’t ask your horse for too much too soon
Do allow a loose rope between you and your horse
Walk confidently
Reward the good behaviour
Be aware of how your horse is reacting
Be prepared to go back a step if something isn’t working
End each session on a good note
Enjoy your horse and have fun!!

 

[honey-bees]

If it was me I would introduce new things to the schooling at the beginning of a session with a youngster and then end on a good note, rather than a spur of the moment 'lets do this'. What reaction were you expecting from a youngster, knowing she is spooky and bad mannered on the ground.

Take it in small steps with a youngster and if she is bolshy etc like you say then I would go back to basic ground work with her.

 

[winterwood]

If it was me I would introduce new things to the schooling at the beginning of a session with a youngster and then end on a good note, rather than a spur of the moment 'lets do this'. What reaction were you expecting from a youngster, knowing she is spooky and bad mannered on the ground.

Take it in small steps with a youngster and if she is bolshy etc like you say then I would go back to basic ground work with her.

Yep. I agree . Very good points made here

 

[mik]

Winter wood, just a quick question, is this natural horsemanship, if so what school?

To me she sounds like a normal youngster, we all have off days.
Back to basic discipline, walk, halt stand, back up, move over etc. repeat until she listens and obliges without resistance, be calm, assertive.
She sounds like she settled afterwards, it was a new thing so take it step by step. Weave her in and out of poles and things on the ground. Make her stop as she goes over them bit by bit. I would lunge her over poles etc so she gets used to them. If she is on the lunge and trots or canters off you can calm her and repeat until she realises there are no dragons, or gives up being pushy, and halts when told to, pole or not.
Basics, small steps, and as said already above, newer things in the center of the lesson and then things she knows at the end so she relaxes and feels confident.
Patience. She doesn't sound too bad really.

 

[Maesfen]

Winter wood, just a quick question, is this natural horsemanship, if so what school?

The school of common sense and good basic handling. Get the foundations right and everything else should follow on easier.

 

[opinionuk]

I think you should be able to sort out her manners without too much difficulty.

I would put the Dually halter and a long line (at least 12ft) on her, take her into the school and start to take control of her feet. If she trys to pull away/tank off take a step away from her and brace yourself so that she 'runs into the dually'. Immediately release any pressure when she tops.

Here are some things you can try


Horses being horses there will be times when things may take a step backwards during the training or ongoing handling of your horse. Don’t worry, this is perfectly normal, we do after all have ‘off’ days occasionally as do our horses! However if you are calm and consistent when working with your horse, you will soon get back on track.

HALTER WORK :

Start
To begin with, stand next to your horse’s head, give him a little stroke and then walk around his nose and circle to the right. Remember to walk confidently and have a nice loose rope between you and your horse, do not hold under the chin. He should start to walk with you. If not, don’t stop and wait, keep walking and he will feel the pressure of the rope tightening, if this happens be sure to release any pressure as soon as he moves. Do this a few times in each direction, to really get your horse understanding that when you move he moves. This is the start of showing him that you are an effective leader in whom he can have confidence.
Generally speaking the horse needs to have his nose at or just behind your shoulder when being led.. If he gets in front ask him back by applying pressure to the lead rope, be effective when doing this, but release the pressure and give him a stroke as soon as the horse is back where he should be.

Stop
Ideally your horse should stop when you stop without overtaking or bumping into you. So we need to set a boundary regarding our space. To test this, simply walk along leading your horse on a nice loose rope and then stop. If he overtakes or bumps you, immediately back him up a step and release any pressure when he has done so. Of course, if he does stop nicely give him a stroke. Another way is to ask your horse to stop quite firmly when you stop (3 times) and see if he picks it up this way, don’t forget to reward your horse with a nice head rub or stroke when he gets it right

Back Up
Stand on the near side of your horse, a little in front of him, facing his tail, holding the rope with your left hand near the clip under your horse’s chin. As you take a step towards the back of your horse, apply some pressure to the lead rope, sometimes a jerky on/off pressure can work well. If your horse takes a step backwards, or even attempts to, release the pressure and praise him. Very soon he will be moving backwards willingly with light pressure. We are only looking for two or three steps.

Stand
Using a long lead rope, stand directly in front of your horse, facing his nose. Adopt an assertive position (Stand up tall, nice square shoulders) and look your horse in the eye. Slowly back away from him, letting some rope out as you go. If he attempts to walk towards you raise a hand, or both hands. If this is ineffective give the lead rope a shake (we are only looking to stop him coming forwards, not back him up). Once he has stood for a short period, drop eye contact, adopt ‘softer’ body language and ask him to come to you by applying a little pressure to the lead rope. Remember he is still to respect your space, so don’t allow him to come in really close, unless of course you ‘invite’ him into your space!

The above exercises are good for setting a foundation of mutual respect between you and your horse. It is the start of getting your horse to understand that you are an effective leader, in whom he can trust and have confidence.
To keep things interesting for you both, you can incorporate obstacles and have a specific route in mind, whilst carrying out the above halter work.

Key notes

Short regular sessions are best
Don’t ask your horse for too much too soon
Do allow a loose rope between you and your horse
Walk confidently
Reward the good behaviour
Be aware of how your horse is reacting
Be prepared to go back a step if something isn’t working
End each session on a good note
Enjoy your horse and have fun!!

Thank you for your encouragement, I'm sure it will all sort itself out

 

[opinionuk]

Err what age are you, you sound rather like a child, but you expect your horse to behave like an adult. I don't think you are ready for this,

You are entitled to your opinion but I write on these forums to ask for advice and any concerns I may have with my horse and comments that you have just given are not helpful.

 

[winterwood]

Winter wood, just a quick question, is this natural horsemanship, if so what school?

To me she sounds like a normal youngster, we all have off days.
Back to basic discipline, walk, halt stand, back up, move over etc. repeat until she listens and obliges without resistance, be calm, assertive.
She sounds like she settled afterwards, it was a new thing so take it step by step. Weave her in and out of poles and things on the ground. Make her stop as she goes over them bit by bit. I would lunge her over poles etc so she gets used to them. If she is on the lunge and trots or canters off you can calm her and repeat until she realises there are no dragons, or gives up being pushy, and halts when told to, pole or not.
Basics, small steps, and as said already above, newer things in the center of the lesson and then things she knows at the end so she relaxes and feels confident.
Patience. She doesn't sound too bad really.

I personally don't class what I do as NH. I am an Intelligent Horsemanship Recommended Associate. We try to find effective ways to work with horses, taking into account their natural instincts and being sympathetic to the feelings of both horse and owner

 

[winterwood]

The school of common sense and good basic handling. Get the foundations right and everything else should follow on easier.

Cheers

 

[Tnavas]

It's easy to get frustrated with a youngster as they do have their good and bad days. Mine drives me to distration at times - one day a sweetheart and the next a snorting monster.

First have a look at what you are feeding her - if she is getting hard feeed try reducing her down to just adlib hay/haylage with a mineral block to supplement her, then you are dealing with a lot less fiz..

Are you lunging off a cavesson or your headcollar or bridle - the lunge cavesson is the best to use as it means that you have the centre of nose control.

Limit the area she is in when you do the new work. Place the plank along the short side, close to the corner so that she is facing a wall as she steps over it.

Plan to send her on a circle if she does get cheeky.

 

[luckyhorseshoe]

I think some posts on here are not helpful. The op sounds to me like any other owner with a young horse in the winter! Take a deep breath, poor a glass of wine knowing that there will be others going through exactly the same thing! Consistency is key! Failing that get a rope line on a halter as they're easier to hold onto!

 

[Queenbee]

Winter wood, just a quick question, is this natural horsemanship, if so what school?

God, I don't think it really matters here does it, what winter wood says is excellent advice, broken down and very instructional with reasoning too. Even though I have been here a few times with other horses, I seem to be wading through thick mud a bit with my youngster at the moment and reading point by point what ww has said, even though I know it already, really puts things into perspective, and gives me a bit of a slap in the face and says 'get a grip girl, its not rocket science!'

Thanks WW.

 

[newbie_nix]

I am not an expert being only an intermediate level rider and first time horse owner so this is just my opinion. However I recently took on a youngster - fortunately for me a pretty easy laid back type (Clyde X) and I am also getting heaps of more experienced/professional advice. BTW I really wasn't looking for a youngster when I was horse shopping but he just kind of happened LOL

Anyway even with my relatively limited experience and a pretty cruisey 3yr old, I have learnt the following.

Always be kind when they do the right thing - heaps of encouragement but you MUST be really firm when they start playing up. Not talking about beating them but calm and no messing type voice, body language and actions. Mine knows if he plays up he will be put to work even harder and made to turn circles, back up etc. But if he does the right thing, life is sooo much easier and fun!

Things do happen sometimes. Mine also bolted on the lunge line - we were doing great then out of nowhere he decided he had enough (it was a bit of a windy day, his mate was in the field etc), bucked and shot off and there was no way I could hold him. Disappointed as I was with myself to have had to let him go I immediately went back up to him calmly, reassured him, picked up the line again and put him back to work. I then decided to go right back to basics with lungeing and he has been an angel ever since. But I don't push it. 15-20 mins is quite enough at his age.

Trying to force them to do too much can overwhelm them.

When things start going wrong, I look for the small wins. E.g. my boy was being a wally about going through a particularly big puddle we always get after rain on the drive. Would try to wheel away from it and would make a right old fuss. Silly boy, doesn't blink with the massive combine harvesters and milk trucks that rattle past here but decided this particular puddle was the portal to hell.

I would be strict in that I wouldn't let him turn away from it, but I gave him time and took the pressure off and lots of praise the instant he put just one foot in the puddle and held it. Then we slowly got 2 feet, and then both of us standing in it. It actually didn't take too long in the end but I made sure we only progressed to the next step once he was completely fine about the step before. I know this is really basic stuff but in the heat of the moment it is so easy to forget.

Take it very slowly and break things down into very small steps. Maybe you threw too much at her in one session? Is there an activity she really enjoys doing? Mine has recently learnt to 'fetch' using clicker training - he loves this! (some may shudder at this, i don't use it all the time but it is proving a useful tool for some things, and we both enjoy it )

I also need to keep working on the (in his eyes) 'boring' manners stuff like standing still, not being too nosy/mouthy, backing up over longer distances and having a more polite attitude to having his feet picked out. As a reward for doing a good job on the dull stuff (which he is getting really good at but still needs work!) he then gets to play fetch with a boxing glove. He loves this and it is really helping us develop our relationship as well as teaching him that bad manners don't get him anywhere.


Just keep going, don't rush her, keep calm, firm and consistent and take it right back to basics sometimes if you need to. Above all - enjoy! She sounds great

 

[Queenbee]

I think some posts on here are not helpful. The op sounds to me like any other owner with a young horse in the winter! Take a deep breath, poor a glass of wine knowing that there will be others going through exactly the same thing! Consistency is key! Failing that get a rope line on a halter as they're easier to hold onto!

OP, not to revel in your woes or anything but it does comfort me to know that I'm not the only one having issues with a youngster in the winter, ben was an absolute dream to lead in the summer he is now a toss er... but we will get there, just as you will... I think the term is 'Hi Jinx'. My ebony is an older lass now and was as bad as our 2 youngsters combined x 10... now she is the most foot perfect girl I know, but still a sparky fun ride. Stick with it, I am prouder of her than anything else in my life so I can honestly say its worth it


LHS that is excellent advice the halter and the wine Although mine is a port and I'm now heading over to the bar in SB to get tipsy with the forum reprobates

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Following along here with probably nothing too helpful to add except that my youngster is being a pain at the mo too - but to be fair, the weather is awful so he is not doing much (and he doesn't seem to be enjoying being turned away, so plan to bring him back into groundwork basics asap). he has also become bottom-rank herd member since hay feeding started and that is not improving his behaviour.
So, you're not alone - when I feel disheartened with him after all the progress we made over the summer, I remind myself he is young and therefore will inveitably be one-step forward two-back (plus he is a youngster who already issues so 'remedial'!!) and I know really he will come back to hand with the right work....
There's some great advice here on youngster basics, so let's take heart from that!
Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[Pauli]

Hi,

I dont think there is a lot left to say as most people recommended basics need to be right which is the key to everything.

But here a different idea which might help. Watch your horse! Get to know her and her habits, have a look what she behaves like in a herd. put a new object into the field and let her and her herd mates inspect it. You can see her natural reaction in a herd to new objects which might be helpful regarding your training. You can see if she is the curious one who goes first or if she rather stays behind and lets the others inspect it first. You can then adjust your training and see if that helps I think with a youngster the most important thing is building trust and establish manners. In a natural herd the lead mare inspects things first and then leads the herd to the place with the best food, to a water hole etc.. And the leadmare would not let a youngster push her around. You can establish manners in the day to day routine. When you feed your horse for example, dont just give her the bucket, put the bucket down and dont let her have it. Only when you have both ears and her attention without charging to the bucket you can walk to her and give her the bucket. It helps a lot with space awareness and is an easy and simple thing to do and you get what you want, the attention of your horse If you want to introduce new objects in the school maybe it helps you to let your horse of the rope. As the lead mare it is your duty again to see if the object is safe before your youngster has a look. She can then look at it in her own time and you can help her by walking over it and showing her that it is ok and she can just follow you.
These are just a few things you can do, they worked really well with my youngster who was completely wild and always was scared any pressure such as the simply feeling of the head collar on his head, he just took of all the time, but once we had ground rules established and I gained his trust through space awareness etc it was all fine. Watching him in the herd has helped me as I could see where his problems are in our relationship. He was the leader in the herd, but he never kicked a horse, a mean face of him was enough to get the respect of the other horses which showed me that the signs I give him are way tooo much for him Each horse is individual, so its important for you to get to know your horse, get to know her daily routine and get her trust. Spending time with horses just in the field can be as valuable as a session in the school.
And dont worry, youngsters are like teenagers They test their boundaries But they grow up

 

[luckyhorseshoe]

Prancer & Vixen - enjoy!

 

[Goldenstar]

you don't say how old she is, if I have missed it sorry but it should affect the advice given.
However IMO you need to nip this behaviour in the bud. You do your horse no favours by teaching it that getting away is an option you must deal with this now and if you feel you can't get her away to some one who will pronto.
I would get her bitted if she has been so already if she thinks that pissing off and pulling the rien out of your hand is a good idea she needs to learn fast it's not if she difficult I would clip the lunge line to the out side and pass it over her head and trough the bit on the inside.
You also must do something with her six days a week lack of consistency is the worse thing for this sort.
I like to use a micklem multi bridle on them as it gives you lots of options on how to use it and you can change quickly through a session.
As I said at the beginning her age is the factor here but I remake spoiled horses and I have lost count of how many times I have bought for buttons horses that think that leading nicely is an optional requirement I am not trying to be mean to you but just say you really must, to give your horse a good future get this sorted now.

 

[Queenbee]

you don't say how old she is, if I have missed it sorry but it should affect the advice given.
However IMO you need to nip this behaviour in the bud. You do your horse no favours by teaching it that getting away is an option you must deal with this now and if you feel you can't get her away to some one who will pronto.
I would get her bitted if she has been so already if she thinks that pissing off and pulling the rien out of your hand is a good idea she needs to learn fast it's not if she difficult I would clip the lunge line to the out side and pass it over her head and trough the bit on the inside.
You also must do something with her six days a week lack of consistency is the worse thing for this sort.
I like to use a micklem multi bridle on them as it gives you lots of options on how to use it and you can change quickly through a session.
As I said at the beginning her age is the factor here but I remake spoiled horses and I have lost count of how many times I have bought for buttons horses that think that leading nicely is an optional requirement I am not trying to be mean to you but just say you really must, to give your horse a good future get this sorted now.

I would ditto the above... Ebs was 7 when I got her and the biggest baggage ever, far harder to correct at 7 than earlier in life

 

[Echo Bravo]

Sounds like she's going through what I call the teenage years and she will grow out of it. But I would personally take things slowly and a little at a time, sometimes when they have done well on one thing. But instead of ending it there with plenty of praise, for some reason we need to push a little more and if the horse is either tired mentally or physcally, they may rebel and of course they come out as the little s***
forget about it and tomorrow start again on a clean slate so to speak.

 

[opinionuk]

Thank you all for your comments she is a 5 year old, 6 in April ISH