So, it's ok for cyclists & bikers, but not for horse riders - POLITE notice

I don't understand... are you saying that horse riders can't wear these? The article quotes someone from the manufacturer, Equisafety, saying they make them for horse riders and cyclists, not for motorbikers yet.
 
Yes, there have been a few threads on here saying that horse riders have been told they should stop wearing them as motorists have mistaken them for police officers & have been aggrieved when they have discovered that the riders were NOT police officers.
 
I can't see an issue with that article to be honest. Maybe Equisafety need to change the design of equine bibs to read, "POLITE notice. Think horse".

I think articles like that can only help us.
 
For me the difference would be the equine ones do look quite like the mounted police ones, where as I have not seen many lycra clad coppers around! Plus different forces seem to have different views, also like the idea of changing it to 'Think Horse' which would then make them more different to the police.
 
lol no not many lycra clad police about!

The motorcycle one is interesting though, far more police motorcycle riders about. Motorcycle riders in their average outer clothing plus the bike would make them seem much more police-like than a horse rider if that makes sense - ie a child in pink on a chubby ungroomed cob isnt likely to be mistaken for the police but the average motorcyclist would be - far less variation in the 'mount' and the normal clothing of motorcyclists

I cant see how anyone could object to horse riders wearing the Polite vests if they get accepted as normal for motorcyclists. I hope they do become the norm, my husband has so many near misses with cars on his bike
 
There is clearly a difference in opinion by different senior police officers and police associations about the wearing of Hi-Viz Tabards and jackets that are sign written or logoed to look similar to those used by the police.

However as yet there has not been a single court case and until there has been this has not been tested in court.

My advice to everyone is to wear a long sleeved Hi-Viz jacket. It does not need a message on it at all all it nees to do is to assist other road users to spot you earlier and also be able to see your hand signals more clearly.

I would also point out that my advice is not to ride on the roads when the sun is bright and low as other road users can be blinded and may not see you even when wearing Hi-Viz.

Also take the BHS Road Safety course as this will provide you with a number of useful tools to use when riding on the roads. www.bhs.org.uk
 
WelshD said:
lol no not many lycra clad police about!

The motorcycle one is interesting though, far more police motorcycle riders about. Motorcycle riders in their average outer clothing plus the bike would make them seem much more police-like than a horse rider if that makes sense - ie a child in pink on a chubby ungroomed cob isnt likely to be mistaken for the police but the average motorcyclist would be - far less variation in the 'mount' and the normal clothing of motorcyclists

I cant see how anyone could object to horse riders wearing the Polite vests if they get accepted as normal for motorcyclists. I hope they do become the norm, my husband has so many near misses with cars on his bike
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As a biker myself, I can tell you that many riders will wear Hi Viz purely because it makes people think they are police. I have ridden along the M4 in normal leathers and get the usual idiots cutting me up, thinking I should be doing way more than I am speedwise as I am on a sports bike, so sit up my rrrrse and have generally no regard for my safety. I have also done the same journey on the same bright green Kawasaki ZX6R but with a High Viz vest have been given more room than a lepper. It works.

I think the horsey ones just need rewording.
 
I don't think anything has changed except the Polite manufacturers are targeting another market more pro actively ie; cyclists, to compensate their declining popularity with horse riders since the police statement was issued.


V Banz were socially responsible and complied immediately with the police concerns, whereas the Polite range's director seems to be sticking two fingers up and merely trying to find another market.

Still, it won't be the company who gets prosecuted, it would be one of their customers.
 
I think it just goes to show there is no official police line on the matter, just officers in different forces expressing opinions.

Incidentally some passers by mistook me for a mounted policewoman the other day, I was horsey had orange exercise sheet, I had a generic yellow pass wide and slow tabard teamed with sky blue jods and a purple blue top. So you may as well wear what you already have in your cupboard and makes you feel safe because you can't take responsibility for what other people might think.
 
horserider said:
V Banz were socially responsible and complied immediately with the police concerns, whereas the Polite range's director seems to be sticking two fingers up and merely trying to find another market.
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Ah, so it is being socially responsible and not merely kowtowing to police officiousness? I guess that is a matter of opinion. :rolleyes:

Still, it won't be the company who gets prosecuted, it would be one of their customers.
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In practice they won't be as that would be against public interest.
 
criso said:
I think it just goes to show there is no official police line on the matter, just officers in different forces expressing opinions.
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Not quite. Following extensive debate and uncertainty amongst the horse community, the Assistant Chief Constable, ACPO Lead for Mounted Policing issued a statement to clarify the use of the clothing.

The only reason it hasn't been clarified by the courts is that so far, the police have taken a softly, softly approach and have not sought to prosecute an individual yet.

Most of our lives are governed not by laws but by guidelines. The Highway Code being one example of many regulations not actually being law. Hospitals, schools and councils make guidelines that as a community, we respect and follow, even though they are not law. Without that compliance from us, society would collapse.

I like ordinary hi viz. I like to ride on the safest possible routes, in the best weather and traffic conditions, on a controllable horse. I like to thank other road users, to pull over for them if needed and not to delay them by riding during the rush hour.

I don't want to alienate members of the public by making them subconsciously think, even momentarily, that I'm a police rider. I rely on the knowledge that if they see my hi viz, they'll try and avoid splattering a horse and human on their bonnet, even if its just because they don't want to have to jet wash us off their shiny cars.
 
horserider said:
Not quite. Following extensive debate and uncertainty amongst the horse community, the Assistant Chief Constable, ACPO Lead for Mounted Policing issued a statement to clarify the use of the clothing.

.
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I read that statement and they highlighted 3 aspects of clothing that could be an issue yellow colouring, checks and wording.

The link to the motorcyclist shows a tabard that has all 3 of those aspects yet has been approved by a met spokesman so I think it's fair to say the police have been inconsistent in their statements.

I do not have an Polite waistcoat however I have been as I said mistaken for a policewoman in orange and sky blue and also had abuse from motorists despite being on a well mannered horse, always pulling into drives and hopping onto verges to let people past and smiling and thanking drivers.

I am not going to take on any sort of victim mentality and assume blame but put it squarely where it belongs, with inconsiderate motorists who think 60mph is a acceptable speed on country roads with blind bends and shout abuse at anyone who dares to slow them down by also wanting to use the roads.
 
If you have a polite jacket wear it but perhaps save that link .
The CPC will never take a case forward , they would be crucified unless the rider was hanging around a football ground directing pedestrians in which case you would have to say fair enough.
If you get done dawdling down the road any half decent solicitor would have a great time with it.
 
I think the point was that impersonating a police officer is not allowed. So no more childrens party outfits, no more stripograms. No more evening all!

Are handcuffs banned now?UM!

I have one (not handcuffs the tabbard)and will continue. Its a shame I hadnt got a picture as my old cob was the most unlikely candidate for impersonating a police horse!
 
So..... can we get a refund on our Polite gear? If we are not allowed to wear it whilst riding on the roads, would that not mean the products 'Not fit for purpose'?
 
criso said:
The link to the motorcyclist shows a tabard that has all 3 of those aspects yet has been approved by a met spokesman so I think it's fair to say the police have been inconsistent in their statements.
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Unless I have the dates wrong, the 'approval' was when the range was launched and not recently. From what I can make out, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the company is misleading the public. The statement by the assistant chief constable was issued in Spring this year in response to debate and complaints and not when the range was launched.

I just don't get it. Why insist on wearing something that the police have issued a statement about, alienates the public and doesn't actually do anything more than ordinary Hi Viz does, except fool other road users.

Thank goodness, I no longer see people wearing it. It was embarrassing to wear ordinary hi and I don't know whether it was coincidence or not, but it seemed that other riders weren't wearing any hi viz at the time. My feeling was that, like me , they didn't want to be associated with the stuff.
We need road users on our side and not antagonistic to horseriders .
 
horserider said:
Unless I have the dates wrong, the 'approval' was when the range was launched and not recently. From what I can make out, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the company is misleading the public. The statement by the assistant chief constable was issued in Spring this year in response to debate and complaints and not when the range was launched.

I think you are comparing dates for comments for the polite range for horse riders but I was referring to this comment made in respect of the range for motorcyclists.

"Cyclists in London already wear them to get drivers to give them more space, after Met commander Bob Broadhurst said they were not illegal. Now the Met has said motorcyclists can wear them too.

A spokesman said: ‘It does not look like a police uniform. It is merely a high visibility jacket so would not be illegal. It is illegal to impersonate a police officer, so that would mean claiming to be a police officer. Nowhere on the jacket shown does it even say police.’ "

The date on the article is 14th June 2013, true it doesn't give an exact date on when that quote was obtained but as a news article in Motorcycling News I would have thought it was fair to assume it is current.

I haven't worn one but have not seen a rise or fall in abuse by drivers either before it was invented or after. I've hacked out with someone that does and haven't spotted any difference when I am with her and when I am not.

My feeling is that horse riders attract more hostility from motorists as they are seen as being elitist and stuck up in a way that other vulnerable road users are not and it doesn't matter how much you pander to them, they will never be on "our side".
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Silent Knight said:
So..... can we get a refund on our Polite gear? If we are not allowed to wear it whilst riding on the roads, would that not mean the products 'Not fit for purpose'?
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You are allowed to wear it the no policeman decides what the law means or how the courts would interpret it not the polices place to makes these judgements no body knows how a case would pan out until there is some case law and I don't think there is any .
If a the police choose to charge someone with impersonating a police officer the CPS would then have to decide if it was in the public interest to take the case forward
Then the courts would interpret the law and listern to the case made by both sides then a desision would be made , the police can't go around deciding things unilaterally.
I got royally slagged off by one driver for trying to look a police man I have to say fatty looks just like a police horse in his HIviz sheet in fact we call his hacks around the houses patrols , I don't have a polite jacket BTW.
 
criso said:
I think you are comparing dates for comments for the polite range for horse riders but I was referring to this comment made in respect of the range for motorcyclists.

"Cyclists in London already wear them to get drivers to give them more space, after Met commander Bob Broadhurst said they were not illegal. Now the Met has said motorcyclists can wear them too.



The date on the article is 14th June 2013, true it doesn't give an exact date on when that quote was obtained but as a news article in Motorcycling News I would have thought it was fair to assume it is current.
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The article is current but the information is not. Bob Broadhurst is no longer the ACPO Lead of mounted officers. Rod Hansen is, and he sought legal guidance before issuing the statement earlier this year. Equisafety deliberately refer to Bob Broadhurst's initial 'provisory' acceptance.
Its a bit like saying, well Winston Churchill, the prime minister said such and such without mentioning that he's no longer PM and has no such authority.
 
Sorry posted too soon I am from a legal family so I showed be dad one of the older threads on this subject he read through the act and interesting his view was almost word for word what the statement from met said .
That the intent was all in this, you would have to be doing something to claim you where a police officer to breech the law just looking a bit like one would not be enough.
I think the statement that motorcyclists can in the mets view wear them legally would make very very unlikely that any case will ever be brought against a rider and even less likely one would suceed .
 
horserider said:
The article is current but the information is not. Bob Broadhurst is no longer the ACPO Lead of mounted officers. Rod Hansen is, and he sought legal guidance before issuing the statement earlier this year. Equisafety deliberately refer to Bob Broadhurst's initial 'provisory' acceptance.
Its a bit like saying, well Winston Churchill, the prime minister said such and such without mentioning that he's no longer PM and has no such authority.
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Actually after referring to Bob Broadhurst's comment, the article says

".... Now the Met has said motorcyclists can wear them too.

A spokesman said: ....."

Doesn't say who the spokesman is who gave the current advice or the date but 'now' implies the advice is current.

Not that I'm sure the exact date matters, I'm sure someone else in the police could voice an opinion next month that they are a problem and someone else the month after will say they're not.

All we have is different police officers making interpretations and voicing opinions.
 
criso said:
Actually after referring to Bob Broadhurst's comment, the article says

".... Now the Met has said motorcyclists can wear them too.

A spokesman said: ....."

Doesn't say who the spokesman is who gave the current advice or the date but 'now' implies the advice is current.

Not that I'm sure the exact date matters, I'm sure someone else in the police could voice an opinion next month that they are a problem and someone else the month after will say they're not.

All we have is different police officers making interpretations and voicing opinions.
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Exactly. It is implied that the advice given to Equisafety is current, but the statement from Jan 2013 superceeded the one from 2010 which would then be deliberately misleading. The date does matter.
 
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