So what conditions would not respond to a Bute trial?

[bluehorse]

As title really. Aside from gastric ulcers and foot abscesses...

Horse is sound (without Bute) but struggling down hill. Not pottery or shuffling, just very slow and on steep hills takes tiny steps. He also gives way at the knee on occasion but does not trip (as in tripping with the foot). However we do have very steep hills, he copes much better where it is more of a slope. Completely non responsive to a bute trial.

I will be having this conversation with my vet but not just yet, I want to see first how he is with his flat work so I have a full picture. Unfortunately I’ve got to wait for our new school to go in so that won’t be for another month or so. In terms of hacking, if we didn’t have the hills I wouldn’t be suspecting a problem.

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Is he fit, well and active otherwise? Does he have a good stong core and can generally balance himself and you in lessons in w/t/c and on circles?

Is he shod in front?

 

[IrishMilo]

My horse has never been great downhill. Not shuffly but always a bit unsteady on his feet. He had other issues - cow kicking if asked to go forwards, putting his ears back, bucking a lot - he didn’t respond to a Danilon. He’s since been treated unsuccessfully for a suspected SI problem.

 

[bluehorse]

My horse has never been great downhill. Not shuffly but always a bit unsteady on his feet. He had other issues - cow kicking if asked to go forwards, putting his ears back, bucking a lot - he didn’t respond to a Danillon

Thanks, did you ever get to the bottom of it or have any investigations done?

 

[Northern]

My TB did this, she has since been diagnosed with kissing spines and suspected SI issues. She still finds it hard to go down the steeper slopes even after injections for her KS/SI/suspensories. I doubt she would have responded to a bute trial, for what its worth, though I never tried one. I suspect she has other problems now as well, probably compounded by what we have already found.

 

[bluehorse]

Is he fit, well and active otherwise? Does he have a good stong core and can generally balance himself and you in lessons in w/t/c and on circles?

Is he shod in front?

He is 4 months in to coming back into full work after a period of intermittent lameness, with a very tentative diagnosis of pedal osteitis in the right fore. I say tentative as the level of demineralisation of the pedal bone can also be seen in sound horses. What was later discovered was that at the time of the nerve blocks he was actually suffering from low grade laminitis which obviously also blocked to the front of the foot. He’s completely clear of laminitis now. He is barefoot and booted all round for hacking and has been since I’ve owned him (almost 4 years).

Obviously having lacked work he has been under muscled and in my view was definitely lacking core strength when he came back into work. He did 6 weeks of walking out in hand up and down the killer hills (and I know they are killers as they certainly killed me!). Since then a further 6 weeks of ridden walk work around said hills. He has massively muscled up, it’s very apparent through his whole frame, and I have just introduced short periods of trot. He looks and feels better than he has for a long time, so on the whole yes I would say he is getting fitter and feeling well.

I have been undecided as to whether this problem is purely strength and fitness (my initial thoughts when I started riding him) or not, hence the Bute trial. He is an 8yo 17hh lump of long legged warmblood, so strength is still definitely a possibility in my view, but I would have expected it to improve with the work he’s has. I would say there is a marginal improvement overall (pre Bute) but not that much.

Unfortunately no school or lessons possible at the moment so I have no way of gauging his flat work.

 

[bluehorse]

My TB did this, she has since been diagnosed with kissing spines and suspected SI issues. She still finds it hard to go down the steeper slopes even after injections for her KS/SI/suspensories. I doubt she would have responded to a bute trial, for what its worth, though I never tried one. I suspect she has other problems now as well, probably compounded by what we have already found.

Thanks, were there any other ridden symptoms at the time of her diagnosis?

 

[FourLeafClover]

Shuffling downhill can be a symptom of PSD in the hind limbs, but as you say it’s one of those ‘symptoms’ that can be a sign of something going on or can be just one of those things. Interestingly, my horse that had N&F surgery for PSD was always great going down hill but now (around a year post op) takes tiny pixie steps going down the steep hills round here. *trying very hard to not get neurotic about it*!

 

[D66]

Bute can make ulcers worse.
I hope you get to the bottom of your horse's troubles.

 

[Northern]

Thanks, were there any other ridden symptoms at the time of her diagnosis?

Just a loss of performance under saddle, trot was ok, but bunny hopping in the canter and just couldn't push off from behind (probably more the SI symptom here). I stopped riding her because I didn't want to make her uncomfortable to the point of acting out.

 

[ycbm]

My vet tells me kissing spines often don't respond to a bute trial.,

.

 

[bluehorse]

Just a loss of performance under saddle, trot was ok, but bunny hopping in the canter and just couldn't push off from behind (probably more the SI symptom here). I stopped riding her because I didn't want to make her uncomfortable to the point of acting out.

Thank you, canter work is something I want to test out when I can get in to our new school. Previously no problems but he hasn't schooled for a while so it will be interesting to see if there is any deterioration.

 

[bluehorse]

My vet tells me kissing spines often don't respond to a bute trial.,

Thanks, yes I've heard this, also SI? I've had a kissing spines horse before, this one is not really showing any tightness though his back at the moment. I managed to grab an appointment with the chiro just as she's started back up, she's treated him for a couple of years and thought his back felt better than previous, fewer areas of tightness and much more muscled. Not that that means he doesn't have kissing spines of course. If anything I am leaning towards a neck/back/hind end issue. One problem (which you may appreciate) is that as he is barefoot the vet seems to struggle to look beyond the fact the has no shoes on...

 

[IrishMilo]

Thanks, did you ever get to the bottom of it or have any investigations done?

No, we’re still trying to figure out what’s wrong.

 

[AandK]

Is it something as simple as saddle fit? Is he okay walking downhill with no rider?

 

[SEL]

My mare with PSSM & SI issues did not respond to bute but looked a different horse with a small dose of steroid into her SI. Never had problems downhill tho.

Gelding with ringbone can tiptoe downhill but he is better with bute

 

[bluehorse]

Is it something as simple as saddle fit? Is he okay walking downhill with no rider?

I‘ve considered saddle fit, he has gained a lot of muscle over his back. I have a wow saddle so have put in a wider head plate which I think is better. I didn’t think it was too narrow before but it was definitely slightly tighter. He is better without me on board but still slow and the knees still go occasionally. The chiro didn’t find his back sore when she saw him last week. I am on the list for my saddle fitter when she starts up which will hopefully be quite soon.

 

[bluehorse]

My mare with PSSM & SI issues did not respond to bute but looked a different horse with a small dose of steroid into her SI. Never had problems downhill tho.

Gelding with ringbone can tiptoe downhill but he is better with bute

Thanks, interesting on the SI, I though that would definitely cause downhill problems. He is negative type 1, I did the hair test. He doesn’t really show any other possible symptoms though so I dont think pursuing a diagnosis for type 2 is probably worthwhile at this stage.