Societal constructs

blitznbobs

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I think this comes down to entitlement. Those who have lesser backgrounds or grew up in certain areas are sometimes more down to earth than those who have grown up with a life of privilege / luxury.
I think its more to do with expectations rather than entitlement… ill give you an example. I am a doctor. Lots of kids want to be doctors. I have never refused to take a teenager who would like to see what its like to shadow me for a day for a bit of experience. People i mix with socially,( mostly professionals) don’t hesitate to ask if id take their son/ daughter for the day and i always do so willingly. I work with a lot of different classes of people — i have only been asked by one of the cleaners once, who started asking with an apology and a ramble, if id do similar (she was someone id had tea with everyday for years) … i said yes immediately and they were somewhat shocked by my response… i dont think the professionals were entitled but they did expect me to say ‘yes’ because they were asking someone they knew a favour… it wasnt a big deal but i will always be bizarrely proud of that cleaner who did a brave thing and stepped out of her comfort zone and asked for what she wanted…. Because , although the situation was the same, her perception was different.
 

Deltofe2493

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Especially at the moment, the people at the yard may be the only people the client ever sees on a daily basis. For the hundreds of pounds they pay it should not be too much to ask to exchange a few words with them.
This is exactly my point... because someone is paying 'hundreds of pounds' does not mean they are entitled to anyone's time or personal care, other than that of what they're paying. The money is being paid for horse upkeep. IMO anyway.

A relationship needs to be built from both sides., I've worked in a few retail / hospitality positions and I give the basic niceities hello how are you, please thank you can I get you anything else blah blah but if I get good vibes from someone and we have good conversation I give them good vibes back and I will go above and beyond for them in my service. But if someone is a pain in the a**se, no matter how much money they have you best believe they are getting served last / receive crap customer service.
 

LadyGascoyne

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I think its more to do with expectations rather than entitlement… ill give you an example. I am a doctor. Lots of kids want to be doctors. I have never refused to take a teenager who would like to see what its like to shadow me for a day for a bit of experience. People i mix with socially,( mostly professionals) don’t hesitate to ask if id take their son/ daughter for the day and i always do so willingly. I work with a lot of different classes of people — i have only been asked by one of the cleaners once, who started asking with an apology and a ramble, if id do similar (she was someone id had tea with everyday for years) … i said yes immediately and they were somewhat shocked by my response… i dont think the professionals were entitled but they did expect me to say ‘yes’ because they were asking someone they knew a favour… it wasnt a big deal but i will always be bizarrely proud of that cleaner who did a brave thing and stepped out of her comfort zone and asked for what she wanted…. Because , although the situation was the same, her perception was different.
I think this reflects my experience which is that the majority of people who I know, who are in privileged positions, are very happy to accept people from all walks of life into their world. And, in my experience, it is often that the people from situations that are less privileged that limit themselves by thinking they are not worthy in some way, and perceive barriers between themselves and wealthier people, or presume that privileged people will judge them.

I think it’s brilliant that she asked you, and that you welcomed her request. I hate that social barriers as perceived by a mother could hold back the potential for a child to strive for a profession like medicine. But it happens every day.

This is exactly my point... because someone is paying 'hundreds of pounds' does not mean they are entitled to anyone's time or personal care, other than that of what they're paying. The money is being paid for horse upkeep. IMO anyway.

A relationship needs to be built from both sides., I've worked in a few retail / hospitality positions and I give the basic niceities hello how are you, please thank you can I get you anything else blah blah but if I get good vibes from someone and we have good conversation I give them good vibes back and I will go above and beyond for them in my service. But if someone is a pain in the a**se, no matter how much money they have you best believe they are getting served last / receive crap customer service.
I could not disagree with this more. Regardless of how a person perceives the attitude of a customer, delivering poor service because they don’t like someone only reflects badly on them.

None of us have any idea what might be going on in someone’s life, and it costs nothing to treat everyone with courtesy and warmth.
 

scruffyponies

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Aspiration and expectation is everything. Not only do working class kids miss out on the educated role models that are just not there in their every day life, but they also have endless nitwit lefties telling them that certain professions / universities / cultural events are 'elitist' and that they shouldn't aim to do or see those things which the middle classes do. It's wicked, and does more harm to poor kids than lack of money ever would.
 

GSD Woman

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The entitled woman reminds me of the some of the teenagers where I kept my horse. He was on pasture board and I worked at the stables to offset his boarding fees. I did a bunch of chores, from bringing in horses, feeding and watering and putting on blankets. These little sh*ts expected the world, from feeding their ponies after they were out late with lessons and such. I worked full time and had to be at work early in the morning. I couldn't stay late just because they paid for full board. The yard owner and family lived on site, ask them.
 

Mrs Jingle

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I could not disagree with this more. Regardless of how a person perceives the attitude of a customer, delivering poor service because they don’t like someone only reflects badly on them.
This 100 per cent, I cannot think someone would last too long in a customer facing roll with that attitude.
 

Deltofe2493

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Well I did the quizz and came out as 'Established middle class'' Very odd as I consider the fact that every thing I/we own we have worked damn hard to achieve, nothing handed to us on a golden platter of old family money, so therefore we are working class. Neither of us worked in one of the recognised 'professional' jobs, although we both had parents who were in the supposedly professional class. My husband had his own business but I don't think that is a so called 'professional' 🤷‍♀️

I have to say though, I consider living in Ireland, born Irish in Ireland but educated in the UK, that Ireland is very much more of a classless society by comparison to the UK. You wouldn't want to be giving yourself too many airs and graces around this way no matter what size house you own or how new your car is or where you got your education. You would very soon be brought back down to earth!😂
I completely agree, my mum moved to rural Ireland to care for my grandma and she has no regrets!!
 

Deltofe2493

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This 100 per cent, I cannot think someone would last too long in a customer facing roll with that attitude.
ive been working in the industry for all my working life. Your theory should work both ways.

customers don’t know what we face in these roles. I was on furlough from my main job in august 2020, potential risk of redundancy whilst working my pub job full time during eat out to help out. I was just trying to pay my bills, I didn’t see many customers being kind to me or the staff just because their food took a little longer to come than usual or we were out of a certain product. The amount of pressure we were under was astronomical. I was actually in tears at one point because people had been so rude!

which is my point and why wherever I go anywhere shops restaurants whatever I’m always super polite, whereas people who have never had the misfortune in working minimum wage roles aren’t always kind because they expect and are entitled.

Like I said, I am only speaking from my experience and how I see and deal with people. Still working 2 jobs in events & hospitality so I must be doing ok. :cool:
 
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Deltofe2493

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I think this reflects my experience which is that the majority of people who I know, who are in privileged positions, are very happy to accept people from all walks of life into their world. And, in my experience, it is often that the people from situations that are less privileged that limit themselves by thinking they are not worthy in some way, and perceive barriers between themselves and wealthier people, or presume that privileged people will judge them.

I think it’s brilliant that she asked you, and that you welcomed her request. I hate that social barriers as perceived by a mother could hold back the potential for a child to strive for a profession like medicine. But it happens every day.



I could not disagree with this more. Regardless of how a person perceives the attitude of a customer, delivering poor service because they don’t like someone only reflects badly on them.

None of us have any idea what might be going on in someone’s life, and it costs nothing to treat everyone with courtesy and warmth.
what if the customer didn’t like the member of staff and was trying to make their lives difficult on purpose? Or when customers forget their manners? You’d be surprised at how often this happens. As much as we are told, the customer is not always right.

I work in corporate hospitality so yes technically I would be polite and courteous but I wouldn’t go above & beyond. Mainly because they’d drain my energy so much I wouldn’t have anything left to give!
 

Deltofe2493

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I think its more to do with expectations rather than entitlement… ill give you an example. I am a doctor. Lots of kids want to be doctors. I have never refused to take a teenager who would like to see what its like to shadow me for a day for a bit of experience. People i mix with socially,( mostly professionals) don’t hesitate to ask if id take their son/ daughter for the day and i always do so willingly. I work with a lot of different classes of people — i have only been asked by one of the cleaners once, who started asking with an apology and a ramble, if id do similar (she was someone id had tea with everyday for years) … i said yes immediately and they were somewhat shocked by my response… i dont think the professionals were entitled but they did expect me to say ‘yes’ because they were asking someone they knew a favour… it wasnt a big deal but i will always be bizarrely proud of that cleaner who did a brave thing and stepped out of her comfort zone and asked for what she wanted…. Because , although the situation was the same, her perception was different.
yes and because that is what is ‘expected’ within the middle classes or professions because someone would do it for someone else’s child etc.

maybe friendship circles in lower classes aren’t as able to help each other or there’s lesser opportunities to help so they don’t ask so when they can it is a huge deal, and is why the cleaner was so grateful to you, which is really lovely that she asked and you helped. Hopefully he went on to follow his dreams ✨
 

ycbm

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I was in fracture clinic one day (it's relevant that it was in Cheshire) with a broken wrist and a woman came in with a cast leg, on crutches, wearing top of the range "country" clothes. She looked like she'd left the shotgun in the Range Rover. The place was packed to the gunnels, pre covid. Someone a few seats away from me spied her and said loudly "Marjorie, what have you done?". "Oh", she said, in the plummiest accent I've ever heard "I tripped over one of the spaniels! ".
.
 

Bernster

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These stories are tickling me!

it’s breakfast lunch and dinner for me. Dinner being the main meal although I’m rubbish at managing times so often eat far too late, like 9pm. Dinner used to be tea when I was a kid. I got very confused when I went to uni and started mixing with southerners who ate ‘supper’ at dinner time. Supper def seems like a snack you have before bedtime.

I think ycbm may be partly hobbit with those mealtimes 😁 but I do get peckish about 5 so have introduced snack time now that I’m working from home. Although I should prob just make dinner then.

I had a marvellous interaction with a very posh lady out hunting who keep braying at me - ‘how did you get hay-arrrrr’ (here). Oh it was very easy, I replied, up the A1 in my lorry. I tried a few similar replies only to finally be told that she meant how did I hear about that hunt! 😆

I‘m from working class roots, I tend to socialise with middle and working class folk. I think people would describe me as down to earth. I come up as elite on that bbc quiz 🥸
 

oldie48

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I was in fracture clinic one day (it's relevant that it was in Cheshire) with a broken wrist and a woman came in with a cast leg, on crutches, wearing top of the range "country" clothes. She looked like she'd left the shotgun in the Range Rover. The place was packed to the gunnels, pre covid. Someone a few seats away from me spied her and said loudly "Marjorie, what have you done?". "Oh", she said, in the plummiest accent I've ever heard "I tripped over one of the spaniels! ".
.
Gave me a smile this morning! However, all the really "posh" people I know wear really old clothes, drive cars that have seen better days and tbh don't give a toot about how they look or what anyone thinks of them.
 

tristar

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Gave me a smile this morning! However, all the really "posh" people I know wear really old clothes, drive cars that have seen better days and tbh don't give a toot about how they look or what anyone thinks of them.
that is so true, i bought m y first lorry from one such person, his wax jacket was literally in kind of dangling shreds for about 8 inches round the bottom, and an aristocrat i know has a jumper with darned holes that must be 50 years old, he is however very charming!

the book `class` by jilly cooper is is just about this subject, and very funny, if somewhat naughty regarding the `lower classes`
 

Tarragon

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My lovely farmer friend thinks that everyone should work on a farm for a year, a little bit like National Service. They should experience having to care for animals that depend upon them, in all weathers, see how their hard work results in a harvest, see life and death, hard physical work outside. I quite like that. My daughters think that people should also be made to work in a cafe for a year, to experience what it is like to be the one serving others (speaking from their own bitter experiences!)
Perhaps we would all be better people for it!
 

Gloi

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that is so true, i bought m y first lorry from one such person, his wax jacket was literally in kind of dangling shreds for about 8 inches round the bottom, and an aristocrat i know has a jumper with darned holes that must be 50 years old, he is however very charming!

`
We rented a field from a chap like this who owned the manor. As I was passing one day he flagged me down to hold a sheep for him while he put her prolapse back in
 

Asha

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what if the customer didn’t like the member of staff and was trying to make their lives difficult on purpose? Or when customers forget their manners? You’d be surprised at how often this happens. As much as we are told, the customer is not always right.

I work in corporate hospitality so yes technically I would be polite and courteous but I wouldn’t go above & beyond. Mainly because they’d drain my energy so much I wouldn’t have anything left to give!

having worked in the hospitality sector for many years i totally understand where you are coming from. I waited on royals/ lords etc and always found them very polite. It was a small section of the middle class/those with a few ££ that had an awful sense of entitlement. I remember one occasion when i was the restaurant manager in a very nice hotel, we had a group guests who where just so rude. I ignored it and carried on, but the main culprit picked on the wrong chap one day. (Bearing in mind, we had worked incredibly hard approx 16hrs the day before due to a wedding, then had a very busy shift on breakfast/sunday lunch) He had clicked his fingers to gain the attention of the staff all weekend, including one of the deputy managers. He did it again , so the deputy manager got down on all 4 and bounded over to him with tongue sticking out panting in front of the whole restaurant. Was it professional to do that... god no. Was it funny .. hell yes. Did the manager get into trouble.. sort of.


As for meal times, its breakfast lunch and dinner here, but as a child it was breakfast lunch and tea. Supper was a snack before bed.
 

Fransurrey

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It's not just the words we use and the supermarkets we buy our food from, where we have been to school etc it's also where we come from. I was introduced to the Commodore of my SIL's sailing club, a charming old buffer married to an "honourable" (who is lovely and a little bit batty!). In way of conversation he asked me where I came from and I named an industrial city in the Midlands. With a look of genuine concern he patted my arm and said, "Oh, how dreadful for you". It still makes me smile when I think about it as I don't think for one moment he meant to be rude but he obviously thought coming from such a place was akin to being brought up in the work house!
How true. I've been down South for over 20 years, but still come across some appalling snobbery. I remember one lady saying things about a mutual acquaintance. Apparently the acquaintance was an awful person, probably because she was from 'up there' (North East). I replied to say the North East contains the loveliest people and places and also pointed out I was from 'up there'. A bit awkward...
 

Deltofe2493

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We rented a field from a chap like this who owned the manor. As I was passing one day he flagged me down to hold a sheep for him while he put her prolapse back in
funny you should say this, my dad’s family is very much old money. He grew up in Surrey and went to boarding school and always looked a little skew wiff. Chinos a bit baggier than they meant to be or jumper not fitting quite right.
 

Deltofe2493

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having worked in the hospitality sector for many years i totally understand where you are coming from. I waited on royals/ lords etc and always found them very polite. It was a small section of the middle class/those with a few ££ that had an awful sense of entitlement. I remember one occasion when i was the restaurant manager in a very nice hotel, we had a group guests who where just so rude. I ignored it and carried on, but the main culprit picked on the wrong chap one day. (Bearing in mind, we had worked incredibly hard approx 16hrs the day before due to a wedding, then had a very busy shift on breakfast/sunday lunch) He had clicked his fingers to gain the attention of the staff all weekend, including one of the deputy managers. He did it again , so the deputy manager got down on all 4 and bounded over to him with tongue sticking out panting in front of the whole restaurant. Was it professional to do that... god no. Was it funny .. hell yes. Did the manager get into trouble.. sort of.


As for meal times, its breakfast lunch and dinner here, but as a child it was breakfast lunch and tea. Supper was a snack before bed.
:D brilliant!! what was the reaction of the customer?
 

GSD Woman

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having worked in the hospitality sector for many years i totally understand where you are coming from. I waited on royals/ lords etc and always found them very polite. It was a small section of the middle class/those with a few ££ that had an awful sense of entitlement. I remember one occasion when i was the restaurant manager in a very nice hotel, we had a group guests who where just so rude. I ignored it and carried on, but the main culprit picked on the wrong chap one day. (Bearing in mind, we had worked incredibly hard approx 16hrs the day before due to a wedding, then had a very busy shift on breakfast/sunday lunch) He had clicked his fingers to gain the attention of the staff all weekend, including one of the deputy managers.
I had a date once<- key word, who snapped his fingers for the waiter. First and only date with the jerk.
 

AntiPuck

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My lovely farmer friend thinks that everyone should work on a farm for a year, a little bit like National Service. They should experience having to care for animals that depend upon them, in all weathers, see how their hard work results in a harvest, see life and death, hard physical work outside. I quite like that. My daughters think that people should also be made to work in a cafe for a year, to experience what it is like to be the one serving others (speaking from their own bitter experiences!)
Perhaps we would all be better people for it!
I would agree with the idea that everyone should have to do some sort of customer service role at some point in life!

I worked in various McDonald's restaurants whilst studying, and I found it interesting that the rudest customers (as in, the ones who started screaming and took it to 'I want to see your manager' level) were always those who appeared to be firmly on either end of the class spectrum, rather than the middle (Although, this was in central Newcastle, and at McDonald's, so the posher end was only so posh). I think both types delighted in the opportunity to 'punch down', but probably for quite different reasons.
 

LeneHorse

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I came out as 'technical middle class' in the first quiz which is odd as I don't have a technical bone in my body. Evidenced by failing to get the second quiz to load on my phone!
As for supermarkets my nearest is Asda but it always seems to be full of unmasked mingers so I prefer Morrison's. And there are some things that I go to lidl for - Greek yoghurts, low fat cheese and their farmhouse loaf - because they are great quality and delicious.
 

scats

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I find it quite strange when I go to other parts of the country and people aren’t as friendly as I’m used to. You can say a lot of things about the people of Merseyside, but they are genuinely some of the most friendly and helpful people you could wish to meet. Anyone will chat to and help anyone else, no matter who they are. It’s a warmth that I’ve just never felt anywhere else.
 

Flame_

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I find it quite strange when I go to other parts of the country and people aren’t as friendly as I’m used to. You can say a lot of things about the people of Merseyside, but they are genuinely some of the most friendly and helpful people you could wish to meet. Anyone will chat to and help anyone else, no matter who they are. It’s a warmth that I’ve just never felt anywhere else.
Really! I do not agree. I wish I could go to the North East, or at least back to Manchester, I find the epic rudeness unbearable sometimes.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Many of those differences are between British and American or between older and more recent images.

What does it say about me that I refer to the the meals if the day in English as "breakfast, dinner, supper" and in French as "déjeuner, dîner, souper"?

Supper? In Sheffield? Surely that's the cup of cocoa and a biscuit that you have just before you go to bed! Do you mean tea?
 
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