Soft tissue damage in coffin joint - update and more info needed

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cellie

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Ollie has a soft tissue injury in his hoof plus tear in his tendon.He is being treated with adequan for coffin joint which will help tendon and is having shock wave therapy for tendon.He has heart bar shoes and gel pads and will be re shod next week ,the vet is due out again in jan for last shock wave and he will have another scan.
Does anyone have some links or info on damage to coffin joint .The xrays were all clear so its not navicular and the treatment is the same whether its ligament tendon or soft tissue in the hoof hence the reason for not doing mri .He is a tb so has always had flat feet and we are having work done to improve his collapsed heels .
I have posted on this before but need a bit more info if possible thanks. Im really interested in the recovery period as he has been off for one thing or another for 2 years this summer lots of minor and major injuries, he is the unluckiest horse ever.
 
My old gelding was pts due to degenerative soft tissue damage in both front feet along with arthritic hocks. I also have a mare with behavioral problems turned away due to severe soft tissue injuries in both front feet following shock wave therapy. IME the prognosis has been rubbish, I have heard of some coming right though. I think it probably depends on the type and extent of the actual injuries/damage, along with pure luck.

IMO, all you can do is follow your vet and farrier's advice, give at least six months to a year total rest and then if he's sound try to bring him back to work and see what happens.

Cellie I really feel for you, but your horse sounds like walking vet bill.
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He is walking vet bill you are so right !£8000 in two years one of the reason s I wont go for mri as I really cant justify the expense.Just trying to come to terms with long term prognosis.His horn is a good quality but the shape of his foot is poor he grows a long toe which almost bends if I let the hoof grow too long.
 
My horse had the same combination of soft tissue injuries as yours, confirmed by MRI. She is ISH and she was 9 years old at the time. I took her barefoot and she made a full recovery. The main aim with soft tissue problems in the foot is to achieve as near as possible to perfect foot balance, whether you use remedial farriery or equine podiatry. The added benefit of podiatry though is the stimulus to the blood supply in the foot that aids healing.

I'm just giving you this example to demonstrate that a horse can recover from a situation like yours.
 
Thanks thats reassuring.Barefoot is not a good idea being tb his feet are very flat and vet has recommended remedial as well as farrier.It would be ideal if he was a different horse.Can I ask how long you gave her off.
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Hi Cellie,
I'm sure we've PM'ed before. Sorry he's not improving. Sadly prognosis for any soft tissue damage in the foot is poor with very few returning to work and those that do only tend to hack (sorry I know not what you want to hear). Sue Dyson is the leading expert - she did some major research five years ago that Sammy was involved in. Sadly he didn't make it and was pts. Out of ten horses involved in the study one was retired to be a field ornament and another made it back to hacking, the rest were sadly pts. However, five years on and things have improved a bit. It sounds like you've covered all the main treatments so sadly only time and rest are left.
Jesper was diagnosed with collateral ligament damage roughly two years ago now. He's now a light hack but has to have a danilon every other day as his suspensories are also causing problems (apparently caused by him compensating for his right fore). It took nine months to get him back in to work and even now he is still in and out of work. Sadly I don't think there is an easy way to recovery. I posted on here a month or so ago when Jesper went lame again (before danilon) and the only new suggestion I found was a neurectomy (sp?) which isn't a route I like. The only other possibility is IRAP but this is expensive and I think requires an MRI beforehand. It is also not proven with soft tissue injuries in the foot.
Sorry to not provide better news, sadly prognosis is poor and there is little that can be done but keep hope for as long as possible. Sometimes it seems like there will never be light at the end of the tunnel but then they suddenly surprise you. Can I also ask how old he is? *hugs*
 
Hi Marchtime
Yes your right we spoke earlier when I had his diagnosis.We are not sure if its ligament as Im not going to do mri after spending thousands on spavin earlier tendon and curb its just not viable.Ill do all I can but will have to be open minded as to his long term future.Hes a tb only 7 Im hoping that its not as serious and there does seem to be a improvement.
I have moved yards to give him a better chance.The old yard had a lot of hardcore and shingle on route to his field not a great thing for a flat footed tb.I wish I had my own land and could just turn him away cant bear the thought of not being able to keep him.I wouldnt ever rehome as he might not be looked after properly and he has been very accident prone.Ill keep all my options open throught the summer and see if he improves.Thanks for the feedback
 
Cellie, I'm so pleased to hear there is some improvement - hang on in there. If he's young then hopefully some time off should work - mine was only 8yrs old when diagnosed and is now rideable. Like you I would never rehome mine as he's simply too complex and needy for most people!
MRIs are great if the insurance are paying but like you say they aren't necessary always. Have your vets tried to scan the area out of interest? I only ask because my vet could see some changes using the ultrasound. It's not always successful but if it works it can be a good and not too expensive way of checking the healing. Although if the damage is deeper obviously it doesn't work. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
 
Grab yourself a cup of tea and sandwich sorry long story.
Jan last year Ollie had just started work again after small tendon tear then he completely broke down.It turned out that he had spavin so I decided to go for the operation as it has high recovery rate and short term pain rather than long term.When he came back into work in march he was fantastic walking out properly for the first time we had always thought he was lazy/young.This went ok for couple of months until I built up to 2 hour walking programme recommended by vets.June july I was unhappy with his progress as he appeared to have diagonal lameness he had scans and xrays taken and we found a splint 6 weeks after first splint mare kicked him in the same leg and we had to start again with rest and recovery.Whilst I was hosing his leg for splint he panicked and pulled back on the tether.The yo who isnt horsey had changed all the twine and it didnt snap , poor Ollie ended up running round his field in a complete panic with a lump of wood about 5 ft long banging round his tendons ,his lead rope should have released as it was a safety rope(more bad luck).All the time we were treating injuries the other problems were still there but he had more significant injuries.When I tried to bring him back again he stood on 4 inch nail out on a hack(how unlucky was that).All the time I had a niggling that he wasnt sound and although my vet told me to work him through it I decided on a second opinion and xrays of his feet and more scans.The vet had checked his legs after accident with plank of wood and given me the all clear but it turned out that he had tendon tear .In the end I called out the vet who had done his surgery and we scanned again and took xrays.
Nothing was ever conclusive because he had other ongoing problems and proper rest with restricted turnout.I firmly believe that his original splint and small tendon tear were all down to bad hoof conformation but its took nearly a year to diagnose because of the stop start rehab hes had.
The thing that still stands firmly in my mind regarding his symtoms is that he always had a favorite canter lead on hacks,he also tried to throw me onto a different diagonal in trot.In the early days (he was 41/2) we thought it was due to running round the race track and having preference. Later it made sense to think it wa his spavin as it was diagonal leg.So sorry for essay but you can understand why it took so long to diagnose.
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Are you having similiar problems or just curious
 
Thats a good idea with scan we are having his tendon scanned so I could ask for coffin joint to be scanned around the same time.Although vet thinks its in the hoof there is no harm in looking.Its good to get some feedback and ideas better to ask before the vet has come out to cover all the options available.Fingers crossed for us both
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Cellie having read your diagnosis it sounds so similar. Jesper has had so many issues it's difficult to say when the soft tissue damage occurred. He injured his hind suspensory when he was 4yrs old, followed by two viruses and then a dorsal ligament injury in his back so was barely ridden for the first year. When he came back in to work he went lame with 'bruised soles' every other month. Vet took x-rays as suspected navicular but all clear. Eventually he managed to do some competitions but was still continually in and out of work with his right fore in particular. When he was 7/8yrs old he went lame again but didn't come sound. More x-rays which suggested arthritic changes in the coffin joint along with low lying pedal bones and flat soles. Three months off followed by joint injections followed by another six months in and out of work.
At the end of this he suddenly lost his long floaty stride and started being very grumpy. Cue vet. Sent for an MRI where damage to both collateral ligaments but particularly the right was diagnosed.
Nine months off work, six months of very slow rehab, two months back light schooling and hacking he goes shuffly again. Vet back out who decides due to compensation he probably has minor inflammation to hind suspensory, and right fore suspensory as well as ongoing collateral ligament problems. So basically like you we've spent five years going in circles with a horse who hasn't been sound for more than three months at a time!
It's so often the case with soft tissue damage that it is either misdiagnosed or takes a long time to diagnose. Sorry for the essay but if it helps one person to push for a diagnosis rather than wasting time it's worth it.
 
B****** y tbs love them to bits but dont they have their share of problems,well done for getting throught the essay but Guildford did ask.
Ive just bought another one what a fool I am this time its a tbx and a mare I wonder why!
 
I was just curious really because I've got a TB with lameness issues at the moment - is lame in both front feet. We are hoping that its because he's got soft soles after being out on the wet ground and he's going back to the vets on Friday after a 2 week road work only, bute and perhaps an hour a day out and if he's better after that then ok but if not it could be a multitude of things!! There's no specific injury/problem we can see but know that its to do with the second nerve block region - i.e not heels but the front of the foot. Vet did suggest arthritic changes to coffin joint and will xray if not sound on Fri. Horse feels so well at the moment I find it hard to believe there is something really wrong if that makes sense. He's come on in leaps and bounds since last vet's visit and seems like a different horse. Probably the bute!! He doesn't react to hoof testers but vet said his soles were definately much softer than they should be and that he wasn't too worried at this point. He also said he's seen tons of horses go lame due to the wet recently so I'm hoping and praying its that!!

Horse almost fall over on the road yesterday so am now treating him for nasty scrapes on his hind legs esp. fetlocks Not only that but a drop of Keratex hoof hardener splashed in my eye last night and I thought I was going blind so it was not the best day ever!!

Did think of getting a Shire horse because they are a bit tougher but at 5'4" I'd look a bit silly!!
 
lol yes my next horse is going to a wooden rocking horse.
There is a gel that you can use for his feet to protect against wet ground it works for 7 days as a repellant and is made by keratex.I used it on a loan pony we had for my daughter its very good.She had crumbly feet because of the wet weather .
My horse didnt react to hoof testers his hoof condition is good due to supplements.There are alot of tb owners who use pads for their horses I think this will be a way forward for me if Ollie ever comes sound.I know the vets do a great job but we know how our horses feel and if you feel hes not right I would continue to explore.If Ollie hadnt had so many problems we would have probably picked his hoof injury up earlier it was a process of elimination.Two years ago he went lame after a sponsored walk he was footsore and had bruised his cannon bone this must have been related to his hoof conformation and possibly the splint was related as well.
Have a chat with your farrier and vet about natural balance shoes and possibly pads to help with any bruising.If you can catch it early enough then he will be able to resume normal work.
Be careful with the keratex
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.Id look even sillier on shire at 5 2.
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How old is your tb ?
 
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