Softness and feel, or brace.

Pale Rider

Pale Rider

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Been to a couple of riding schools this last week. Watching some of the instructors giving lessons was quite an eye opener.

The concept of lightness and feel was non existant.

The riders were braced, consequently the horses were very braced. Their hands were so heavy, frankly, it looked awful. They were not really riding the horse, just the head.

Now, this was at two unconnected venues. The instructors appeared very satisfied with the progress, but, it wasn't what I'd be happy with.

When learning to ride, what are people actually taught? The horse didn't seem to feature much.
 
I had been riding for 8 years before any instructor mentioned the words 'feel' and 'give' to me. Shocking, current instructor has meant I made more progress in 10 weeks than I did in those years previous.
 
I completely agree. The standard of teaching is extremely poor and really good instructors that teach 'feel' are as rare as hens teeth. Riders taught to take a firm hold and drive their horse into the contact come to me hunched forward over their horses with straight fixed arms and ridiculously short reins. Horse fixed against them going along with its nose poked out an hind legs trailing behind. When you get on the horse that has had a rider like this, they feel like a plank of wood to ride.
 
And this is where the poor reputation of riding school ponies comes from, imagine how it must be for those poor animals, hard mouth and dead to the leg! I remember the lessons when I took my kids, this is how I ended up back in the game so as to speak as I couldn't bear the instruction to kick, kick, kick constantly with no reference to feeling the horse's mouth and squeezing let alone using your seat. I don't really think anyone learns to ride properly at most riding schools until they begin to ride 'real' horses and ponies when starting with loans or buying their own, and then they get a shock.
 
I used to teach a couple of years ago, one of the things I used to say on a regular basis was "soften your reins" and "take a deep breath and relax into the rhythm" "let your back swing" etc etc etc. I also used to 'chat' to people during exercises, a cunning way of helping nervous people to chill out as it takes there mind off being worried and they relax without realising it.

I also used to teach folks ALOT without stirrups and if I could get away with it safely without saddles. Gripping up with knees was taught away and no-one was allowed to jump leaning on their horses necks, it was all about the independent, balanced seat for me. Also used to teach steering with butt cheeks too :)

Not all RS instructors are bad.
 
I was always taught in my RS (from age of 6 upwards) that if I pulled or was rough on the horses mouth, I lost my reins. I either had them placed on the noseband or swapped to ride a pony with just headcollar and reins.

I think this has become rather ingrained in me now as I tend to shout at anyone in earshot if I think they're too "handy"
 
Karran said:
I was always taught in my RS (from age of 6 upwards) that if I pulled or was rough on the horses mouth, I lost my reins. I either had them placed on the noseband or swapped to ride a pony with just headcollar and reins.

I think this has become rather ingrained in me now as I tend to shout at anyone in earshot if I think they're too "handy"
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Lol, excellent instructor you had there! I would sometimes get folk to put there reins into the wrong hands, makes for excellent entertainment for me, and helps riders enormously to realise steering with your seat/legs is the way to go :D
 
The teaching of the basics is done poorly in many places .
I was taught never to sit agaisnt the horse unless you plan to but I agree with pale riders assessment feel is not taught at the basic level in many many places , very often the teachers themselves products of the same sort of schools have little grounding or understanding of feel .
I am interested if the lesson PR watched where of adult beginners or children my experiance is that it's much easier to teach most children because their lack of fear of falling .
Adults often try to hard and that makes them more challenging to teach one thing is for sure unless the teacher has got it teaching feel is going to be very very difficult.
 
Unfortunately still fixed hands can be every bit as damaging to a horse's mouth as jerky busy hands, if the contact is a strong and unforgiven one. I am not surprised how many horses develop a 'hard' mouth as the contant pressure must numb and kill the nerves. :(
 
I literally can't watch most riding school lessons; the standard of teaching is mostly horrific! But I think anyone who has to teach day in, day out at the average RS must just lose the will to live. I pity all those involved: the horses (most of all), the pupils and the kids doing the "teaching". Who trains the teachers? Is it the BHS? I cannot see how anyone would be able to ride well if relying on the average sort of RS lesson.
 
Wagtail said:
Unfortunately still fixed hands can be every bit as damaging to a horse's mouth as jerky busy hands, if the contact is a strong and unforgiven one. I am not surprised how many horses develop a 'hard' mouth as the contant pressure must numb and kill the nerves. :(
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Its not just RS instructors who teach 'fixed' and/or 'hard' contacts, sadly I've seen many private well qualified, in some cases BHS instructors teach the same thing.
 
Dolcé;11161043 said:
I don't really think anyone learns to ride properly at most riding schools until they begin to ride 'real' horses and ponies when starting with loans or buying their own, and then they get a shock.
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I think that this is very harsh, and a very blasé attitude from someone who obviously believe that no one who rides at a riding school is reading this. I ride at an RS and ride some very green ponies that are new to the yard. If these aren't 'real' ponies then I don't know what are, and I'd like to think that just because I've never owned or loaned a pony before doesn't make me some kind of 'fake' rider who has never ridden a 'real' horse before. The amount of times I've heard this just makes me feel sick, to be quite honest with you.
 
Cortez said:
I literally can't watch most riding school lessons; the standard of teaching is mostly horrific! But I think anyone who has to teach day in, day out at the average RS must just lose the will to live. I pity all those involved: the horses (most of all), the pupils and the kids doing the "teaching". Who trains the teachers? Is it the BHS? I cannot see how anyone would be able to ride well if relying on the average sort of RS lesson.
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Nah, well I didn't anyway, I got a massive buzz from it, especially when a rider cracked something they struggled with previously. Even a small kid getting a rising trot or managing a canter with a smile made me smile loads. Our yard manager taught me and I got lessons elsewhere too.

I never taught to a high level, or even an intermediate level really, but I got people to a place where they could ride a leg yield, have horses working in an outline with a soft contact and jumping little jumps with an independent seat.

The riders went away happy and generally I would say we had fairly content horses.
 
Pale Rider said:
Been to a couple of riding schools this last week. Watching some of the instructors giving lessons was quite an eye opener.

The concept of lightness and feel was non existant.

The riders were braced, consequently the horses were very braced. Their hands were so heavy, frankly, it looked awful. They were not really riding the horse, just the head.

Now, this was at two unconnected venues. The instructors appeared very satisfied with the progress, but, it wasn't what I'd be happy with.

When learning to ride, what are people actually taught? The horse didn't seem to feature much.
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I am very new to this forum and have not read all that much here, yet. this is the first post i have seen where the word "Feel" is mentioned in this meaning.
Where did you learn about "feel"? and how was it taught to you?
 
sarahann1 said:
Lol, excellent instructor you had there! I would sometimes get folk to put there reins into the wrong hands, makes for excellent entertainment for me, and helps riders enormously to realise steering with your seat/legs is the way to go :D
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Reading this "wrong hands trick" I've just realised I know you :D
 
Zeehorse said:
I am very new to this forum and have not read all that much here, yet. this is the first post i have seen where the word "Feel" is mentioned in this meaning.
Where did you learn about "feel"? and how was it taught to you?
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I was taught that riding is a two way street - the horse listens to you via the aids but you must also listen to the horse and respond to what they are telling you. You can, for example, use your seat as an aid to control the horse, but you can also feel if the horse is tense through your seat, if this is the case you need to adjust your riding to help the horse to relax.

I was also taught to always ask lightly to start with. If the horse ignores the light aid, then ask a bit stronger, but soon the horse will learn to listen to the first, lighter aid (they aren't stupid ;) ).
 
The style of riding described in Pale Rider's post must be being taught somewhere. If I had a pound for every person I saw riding with straight arms, heavy hands, massively bracing their whole body, and their horse with its nose in the air like a deranged llama, I'd be able to buy a nice Grand Prix horse.
 
I went to the Pony Club in the 1950's with a variety of naughty ponies, that no one else fancied riding/owning. We had brown paper reins on the bridles and had to ride with these on a regular basis. We were taught weight aids, looking and turning to where we wanted to go, and to listen to what our ponies' behaviour/way of going was telling us. It was far less rushed and competitive then, I think. We were told to ride the back end forward, before you bother with the front, and a variety of other methods to make us understand that we were building a conversation within a relationship between two living beings, us and our ponies.
Our main instructor was a wildly glamourous American showjumper called Warren Wofford. I think he married a British woman showjumper called Dawn Palethorpe, heiress to the Palethorpe's Sausage empire! Ah - takes me back!
 
FlaxenPony05 said:
I think that this is very harsh, and a very blasé attitude from someone who obviously believe that no one who rides at a riding school is reading this. I ride at an RS and ride some very green ponies that are new to the yard. If these aren't 'real' ponies then I don't know what are, and I'd like to think that just because I've never owned or loaned a pony before doesn't make me some kind of 'fake' rider who has never ridden a 'real' horse before. The amount of times I've heard this just makes me feel sick, to be quite honest with you.
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I don't think it is harsh, it is true, I did say 'most' and not 'all' and certainly never accused anyone of being a 'fake' rider. I would also be appalled at any riding school that used green ponies for lessons, that should be dealt with by yard staff before a client ever gets near them and any horse used in a RS should be worked several times a week by an instructor to ensure that they remain well schooled and don't pick up bad habits. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at how many RS actually do this, not a lot IME! I wouldn't be worried about anyone who rides at a riding school reading my post, it would either apply to them or it wouldn't, it obviously didn't to you so there is no reason take it personally.
 
I have a 12yrd old from the village who poo picks a couple of times a week in exchange for a ride. Lovely quiet girl, who is horse mad, bless her!

The first thing she does when she gets on is winch the reins in, force her shoulders back and give the horse a big boot in the ribs - my poor friesian nearly fell over in shock :o She is clearly very adept at using a whip, and yet no clue how to give seat or leg aids :confused:

I have given her 4 lessons now and she said to me last time - do you know no one has ever explain to me how to use my legs, just that i should use them, or that the way the horses feet fall correlates to what my seat does and that I can stop and turn without using my reins even on the riding school pony now :D Best feeling ever hehehe
 
TigerTail said:
I have a 12yrd old from the village who poo picks a couple of times a week in exchange for a ride. Lovely quiet girl, who is horse mad, bless her!

The first thing she does when she gets on is winch the reins in, force her shoulders back and give the horse a big boot in the ribs - my poor friesian nearly fell over in shock :o She is clearly very adept at using a whip, and yet no clue how to give seat or leg aids :confused:

I have given her 4 lessons now and she said to me last time - do you know no one has ever explain to me how to use my legs, just that i should use them, or that the way the horses feet fall correlates to what my seat does and that I can stop and turn without using my reins even on the riding school pony now :D Best feeling ever hehehe
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We had the same experience with my then 16 year old neice. She was amazed that she could ride our horses round the school and steer all over the place without needing to touch the reins. Was quite funny when she cantered and said 'Whoa' and horse stopped dead...! All ours respond to our body movements and to voice and are so light and responsive it is lovely to watch.
 
TigerTail said:
I have a 12yrd old from the village who poo picks a couple of times a week in exchange for a ride. Lovely quiet girl, who is horse mad, bless her!

The first thing she does when she gets on is winch the reins in, force her shoulders back and give the horse a big boot in the ribs - my poor friesian nearly fell over in shock :o She is clearly very adept at using a whip, and yet no clue how to give seat or leg aids :confused:

I have given her 4 lessons now and she said to me last time - do you know no one has ever explain to me how to use my legs, just that i should use them, or that the way the horses feet fall correlates to what my seat does and that I can stop and turn without using my reins even on the riding school pony now :D Best feeling ever hehehe
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This is lovely, what a difference you have made to both her and the RS ponies she rides! My grand daughters have all been pinched by the snaffle bit before they were ever allowed to hold the reins, the youngest has just helped start a pony without touching the reins and can use her voice, seat and legs to great effect, she also has balance to die for. Until RSs begin to teach from the absolute basics correctly, rather than steer, kick, whip and stop, the poor ponies will continue to suffer.
 
I think to say that standard of teaching in riding schools is worse than free lance instructors is incorrect, I have had far worse riding instructors outside a riding school environment than inside!

I think fundamental problems are "language" and that most riding instructors even though maybe not a bad rider themselves are absolutely useless at explaining or changing the way they explain things so that their pupils properly understand. What works for one pupil will not necessary work for another.

There is a lot of language floating around in the horse world, people use terminology that I don't have a clue what they mean and I'm sure some horsey folk do it to show off to less experienced horsey folkl The amount of times you hear an instructor say, "ride between hand and leg" There's not much point asking someone to do this though if they don't know don't understand what they are feeling for what muscles they should be using etc etc.
 
Miss Bean said:
I"ride between hand and leg" There's not much point asking someone to do this though if they don't know don't understand what they are feeling for what muscles they should be using etc etc.
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Or what the chuff that means?! I wouldnt have the foggiest! One thing I say to people is to ask their instructor WHY, why are they giving that instruction, what is the aim and how will it produce the aim? If my pupils asked me and I couldnt explain Im failing as an instructor pure and simple.
 
As a freelance instructor who also teaches at riding schools these RS bashing types of threads really pee me off.

Without RS a lot of us would not have entered into the horsey world.

Yes there are some bad ones- I certainly know of some around my area but I also know of many more exceptional ones. I think your sweeping statement saying all riding schools have below par teaching is ridiculous and quite unjustified.
 
These threads really annoy me, because they just perpetuate the belief that riding schools are just about plodding about on a brain dead dobbin learning to kick to go and pull to stop. This is damaging and counter productive. The more people believe this the more people will settle for this kind of poor instruction and fail to challenge it. This will mean that when unfortunate beginners/returners go to a riding school like this they will put up with it and then get a share or their own horse whilst they remain ill equiped to do so and will inflict this style of riding on their poor horse until they are lucky enough to find a good freelance instructor.

This doesn't have to be the way. There are some excellent riding schools out there with excellent horses and excellent instructors. There are instructors teaching pupils feel, and to use their seat and refine their aids etc. These are the places that beginners and returners should be going, and these are the places that should be getting our money.

What we should be doing is giving the good places/instructors the positive feedback reviews they deserve. We should shout about them loudly and encourage people to take their business to the good places. We should be making it clear to novices what they should look for to be sure of finding a "GOOD" riding school so that people don't have to learn the wrong way before they learn the right way.

Between my OH and I we have ridden at lots of different riding schools and have had lots of different instructors so I feel pretty qualified to comment. We have had some amazing first class tuition, and some that has been less than amazing. I have always tried to feedback to RS owners why I want a lesson with X instructor and not Y instructor and will also give feedback on the instructor if I have a lesson with a trainee instructor or a new instructor. This is crucial to RS and instructors development.

I hate to hear people saying that you can't learn to ride properly at a riding school or that you need to ride "proper" horses. I can honestly say I have seen far more sensitive, responsive and skilled riding from people who have only ridden in a riding school than I have from a lot of private owners. I hear no end of ignorant comments on here from people who have had horses for years that would not be heard in a good riding school or if it was heard it would be challenged and explained. And most of the private horses I have ridden have been far more straight forward than a lot of the riding school horses I have ridden.

Can we please realise that there are some excellent riding schools out there and support them rather than tarring them all with the same brush.
 
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