Some Advice Please (Re Dressage Bits)

[Tierra]

Ok, im looking for a bit of advice in an area im really really not good on!

My boy is ridden currently in a Sprenger training snaffle (i think thats what its called). Its a simple loose ringle snaffle with that doobly bit in the middle (technical i know!

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He's not been happy with this bit for a while but bitting is honestly not an area im great with so I havent fiddled too much. When I first put the bridle on, he chomps on the bit... and I mean he really chomps, stretching his neck out and straining against it. His teeth are fine.. this was the first thing I had checked - although my dentist does pick up on some slight bit wear each time he visits (about every 6 months). He'll proceed to chomp whilst being warmed up and wont settle for a good 10 - 15 minutes. Once he does settle - he works beautifully for the main part but he's still ever so slightly fidgety.

He's working at PSG level at the moment so its not a major fidgety problem, but theres just something ever so slightly off and I thought it may be time to try a new bit. Before anyone asks - no, I dont use a double bridle at home

He's not a particularly strong horse. I have no problems schooling him and jumping him in the sprenger. I have had issues when hacking out in the past (he's run off in fields a couple of times and i havent been able to stop) but due to the local farmer filling our only access to off road riding with cows - Im now not hacking. So.. dont really want to go stronger as such.

I was considering something with a tiny bit of poll pressure because if he's feeling evasive, his trick is to do a giraffe impression. Im not a hand fiddling person and I combat this from riding quite forcefully with seat and legs but have often wondered if he was happier in his mouth, if he'd be less inclined to do this. I dont, however, want excessive poll pressure because he has an old injury up there which the chiropractor still notices every time she comes out (she always says its old but still ever so slightly niggly).

So opinions please ladies. Would you avoid as much poll pressure as possible given his old injury? Any suggestions at all on what to try? It needs to be BD legal also! Incase other information is required.. he's ridden in a very straight forward Albion comfort bridle (with the padding on the nose band and poll) with a standard cavesson noseband. As i said, he's not a strong horse and I dont like gadgetry and fuss.... but bitting seems to have advanced a looong way since I bought my sprenger (a good 6 years ago Id say) and I was wondering what the dressage peeps amongst you are using!

Thanks in advance

 

[Llwyncwn]

Have you tried French Link hanging cheek ?

 

[Tierra]

Nope ive not tried anything other than the sprenger!

 

[Llwyncwn]

I changed from a straight bar to French Link hanging cheek about 6 months ago. For us, the difference was immediate and she liked it. I find it gentle, we have brakes and it applies gentle poll pressure. Not sure how your boy would be with the poll pressure, but its worth a try.

 

[Louby]

My horse has a mouth habit that drives me insane and Ive tried loads of bits to try and find one that suits him. In my opinion the hanging cheek gives minimal poll pressure and the only advantage for my horse is that it holds the bit stiller in his mouth. I do find though he feels heavier in it than in a loose ring snaffle. Ive used the neue schule lozenge baucher, they are quite expensive though. Shop4bits do a trial for 30 days for about £5 and have most bits to choose from. I found them very helpful too.
Good luck I hope you find one that suits.

 

[Tierra]

Im not bothered about the cost because in the long term, even expensive bits are worth it. I have been looking at the neue schule / sprenger type bits but honestly, bits are becoming such a science that im lost!

 

[Louby]

I agree, its just annoying when you pay a lot for them only to find your horse doesnt like it after a couple of tries.
Ive got a few Neue Schule and they are great. Also got the Sprenger kk ultra which I think is a bit too thick for my horses fleshy tongue. Ive learnt so much in this last two years, before my boy I'd never heard of a sprenger or neue schule. Just had a good old french link snaffle LOL.

 

[Weezy]

Some horses just dont like the aurigan

Personally I would try a good old loose ring snaffle in stainless steel before going for anything with poll pressure

 

[Tierra]

I might just raid my trainers tack room over the next few days and see whats in there. He's got quite a small mouth so i dont think putting a lot of metal in there is a good idea. The problem is.. most of the horses on our yard are in the same sprenger snaffles so its hard to find much variation ! The others are mainly worked in their doubles everyday but firstly my horse doesnt like all that metal in his mouth (as i said, he's got a bit of a pony sized mouth) and secondly, i dont think its necessary for us for everyday work.

I have considered that he just doesnt like the material of the sprenger... he certainly pulls those kind of faces.. I'd just like a tiny weeny bit more precision from my bit. If any of that makes any sense

 

[Louby]

You know Ive never thought of that? Once my boys well again and hopefully I'll be able to ride him again I will be trying a bog standard bit!!!
Couldnt you try him in your bradoon only?

 

[KatB]

My boy has a teeny weeny mouth too, and have changed him over to a neue schule baucher, and he loves it. It keeps the bit "up" in his mouth, so stops him from playing with it, but makes him more comfortable becasue creates more room in his mouth and takes pressure off his tongue. Would really recommend it for dinky mouthed horses, it was recommended to me by another forum member with a horse with similar mouth conformation.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Biting is a real problem & it can be very expensive. It's fine people saying try this & try that. That's fine if you know someone who has a bit of the type & size you want so you can try it out. However if you don't know anyone you can spend a fortune buying bits that in the end are not suitable for your horse. Then I suppose you end up Ebaying the lot.

Best advice I can give is to speak to a specialist. Go to this web site, there's a telephobe number you can call & discuss your problem with a Pro. You'll get the best advice & in the long term save a considerable amount of money. The bits are also top quality.

http://www.neueschulebits.com/

I am not connected to the company, just a satisfied customer. Good Luck.

 

[Sparklet]

Neue Schule have an advice line which you can ring to discuss your problem - you may find that they are able to advice which bit to try.

There are no dressage legal bits with poll pressure (hanging cheek doesnt really apply poll pressure) and to be honest do you really think it would cure the chomping and fussing with his mouth anyway?

I spoke to the Neue Schule advisor at a show and she said that the conformation of the mouth can cause problems in that many horses have large tongues or low palates which allow very little room in their mouths for a bit. We always think that a fatter bit (the Sprenger training bit is pretty thick I believe) the kinder to the horse but you may just be filling his mouth and making him uncomfortable so a slightly thiner one may help.

He may also be getting his tongue trapped or over the bit which is causing the fussing. If he is working at PSG he should be pretty obedient and be taking a good contact so I cant imagine he is fussing during his tests - does he wear a double to compete and does he fuss then too?

 

[Tierra]

Hiya

As I said, he's only slightly fussy and its mainly when the bit is first in and Im first jumping on. I ride very much from seat and leg to contact so to be fair, im very not fidgety in my hand and he'll settle after 10 minutes or so of warming up. If, however, I then take a break mid way through the schooling to let him have a stretch, the first thing he'll do is grab hold of his bit and tug downwards and proceed to have a good chomp again.

I did consider whether it was a stress thingie before he was ridden but I really dont think it is. He's generally a really happy kind of horse and he enjoys his work.

I did notice when someone else hopped on him the other day that he was very unhappy with her fiddling with him (she's a squeeze the reins type of person). Now, it could just be that he's used to how I ride now but I wouldnt say she's was being excessive so I pondered whether it came back to this slight unhappiness in his mouth.

You are 100% right in what you said about the thickness of the sprenger training bit. I wouldnt describe him as having a very fleshy tongue like warmbloods tend to but his mouth is still quite tiny if you get what i mean (he's warmblood connemara cross).

He's definitly not getting his tongue over the bit but when im first on it does feel like he's grabbing it and then straining down and forwards against it. This is also what he appears to do in the stable when he's first bridled. He'll then release it and chomp.

In terms of his tests - no he doesnt fuss at all. Usually he's had a good warm up and he's very much a schoolmaster so it's almost like he *knows* where he is and that he's got to focus.

I feel terribly ignorant of the whole bitting issue, but ive always been fortunate and had horses in straight forward jointed snaffles.

Im going to read over the advice page on the neue schule and then drop them an email I think

Its just very hard to describe what he's going without being able to show people since it's all rather subtle.

Anyway! thanks for all the advice guys, its much appreciated and i know its hard to offer help when you dont really have a clue exactly whats going on!

 

[seabiscuit]

How thick is his bit? If he has a really fat tongue and a fat-ish bit to go with it, then it is possible that he is just not able to close his mouth over it.Try a really thin bit?

Another thing is that bit chomping,, can be related to a single problem in the back or body, I.E a trapped muscle/nerve somewhere that is causing tension and thus tension in the jaw..any tension/pain anywhere in the body/back will often show up by a unsetlled mouth...one of my old eventers was just like you describe and he had a serious problem with his back and every time he did not see a physio who kept him supple and flexible, the bit chomping would get worse....

I am not saying that its a serious problem as such,as your horse is still working very well, it is probably most likely a little teeny niggly problem somewhere that is just making him worry and thus bit chomp...

 

[Tierra]

Interesting idea Forrest and luckily my chiropractor is out in a couple of weeks so I'll mention the bit chomping to her.

The bit is quite thick and his mouth is small in terms of the distance between his lips and the corners of his mouth.

I just took the dogs out and thought of a way to perhaps elaborate on the issue. As i mentioned, I ride from seat and leg to hand so my hand is very still for him. I learned the hard way that he didnt like people interfering so I very much push him up and into the contact. But the minute someone who squeezes the reins gets on, he'll object. The girl who rode him recently was trying to warm him up long and low and whenever she fiddled with her rein, he'd react by coming above the bit and really quite hollow (along with foul faces being pulled).

Similarly, when we jump - I purely see myself as a passenger because Im not a great jumper.. I only jump small things and he's more than capable of getting himself there on his own - so I dont really need to touch his mouth. A girl who occasionally schools the horses over fences for our YO rode him a few months ago to pop him over something more sizeable. Because she was trying to alter his stride and therefore taking more hold of him - he came very above the bit and was extremely evasive with her.

Now Im not stupid enough to think im a better rider than these people (infact I know im not). I just ride differently to them but he is quite reactive to what the hand is doing. In a way this is great... he taught me to be a pretty quiet and subtle rider but i still think theres an underlying issue with his bit.

I'll definitly mention this to the chiropractor though forrest - thanks for that

 

[flyingfeet]

If he doesn't like 'fiddling' he will like a baucher - they lie nice and still in the mouth.

Some riders don't like this as they say it feels 'fixed', but frankly unless you are training for the next Olympics you probably won't notice!

Also I agree he may not like the metal of a Sprenger, as the copper can irritate.

Oh and plugging Dad's stock we now have a lozenge baucher (IMHO better than a french link) in stainless steel which we've just had made in our own range, so half the price of NS.

 

[Law]

My horse was in a plain french link snaffle and under advice from my instructor we changed him to a german silver, loose ring snaffle with an eliptical link (lozenge) which he went pretty well in. He liked the warm metal but it was a little small. We changed it for a hollow mouth, german silver same thing (slightly larger lozenge) and he went lovely in it. Same as this only in german silver

Over the summer I was showing and jumping and needed an little extra control so we opted for a jeffries hanging cheek revolver which did give a little poll action and better control.

After the showing season, XC and jumping I've come back to schooling and put him back in his chunky hollow mouthed one and he's going lovely again.
I'd always heartily recommend the bit we are using now and i've mentioned it to three others on the yard who have all put their horses in them with good results. They are soo soft to the mouth.

I'd try this if your horse likes warmer metal but not sure about dressage legal stuff
http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/product_info.php/products_id/1359