Some bitting help required please

[millitiger]

Vinnie has been going great guns (yey! ) but I am finding him increasing difficult to control between fences when jumping and the time has come for a bit change.

He is normally in a Micklem bridle and Hippus snaffle as he is sensitive and quirky in his contact.
However, Hippus don't have many bit options in their range so I put him in a loosering nathe this week which he was happy with which gives me more options for the cheeks.

Jumping wise, the issue is that he 'flicks' his head very violently between fences (to the point where his ears have brushed my face a few times!!), usually when I want to rebalance or half halt but also just because he wants to get away from me and get to the fence quicker
This totally interrupts our rhythm and striding so I need something to help me keep him together on the aids and allow me to have an input without a hissy fit.

He does react ok with poll pressure so I'm looking to go down that route but he is very sensitive so I can't have anything too strong otherwise the likelyhood is that he won't go at all- I want to keep his enthusiasm but have some control

I'm looking at a nathe with either bevel, cartwheel or pessoa gag cheeks- has anyone used these with a sensitive horse or have any other suggestions I could look into?

Thanks all

 

[Super_starz]

I hired a Beris butterfly flip, which didn't really suit my mare, but they are very useful bits if your horse accepts poll pressure, as like Nathe have a soft mouth piece.

 

[Auslander]

Have you thought about a good old-fashioned rubber pelham? I haven't used one for years, but the last time I did, it was on a horse that sounds very similar. He was very settled in his mouth with the fat mouthpiece, and respected the slightly increased leverage (I used it with roundings) without being neurotic about it, which was his usual response to stronger bits.

 

[LEC]

Can you train with a standing martingale? Will help him understand quicker in the long run. I personally LOVE Harbridges which helped enormously with my sensitive in the contact horse but not convinced I would jump in one, but maybe I would if looser as has elastic inserts. I used to put mine in a Harbridge every couple of weeks for his flatwork and it made a huge difference to his understanding and not being able to avoid the contact.

 

[Darremi]

Totally agree with Auslander, rubber pelham with a loose curb chain is a kind bit with a bit of extra control. Also consider using a sheepskin noseband as a temporary solution. Much kinder than a martingale.

 

[millitiger]

Great minds lec, the standing has already been dug out! I'm just researching bits as well as not sure the standing by itself is all I need but I am trying that tomorrow.
He is hacked in a chambon on the roads but I dont like the contact interference schooling.

can you get pelhams with nathe mouthpieces? He wouldn't like the traditional rubber pelham as I think the mouthpiece would be too thick ( he rejected my mullen mouth and happy mouth bits before).

 

[vic07]

My quirky head flicker likes this myler bit - Myler Mullen Barrel Eggbutt without hooks 29 32.

 

[khalswitz]

I have mine in a martingale and sheepskin noseband, which work a treat for him throwing head up before fences. However I have to have him in a Waterford as he goes head to the floor after a fence and gets strong. The combo seems to work well though!

 

[philamena]

If you're planning on keeping him in a Micklem just beware that because you attach the bit via bit loops rather than directly to cheekpieces, the 'leverage' of the bit tends to get taken up swinging the bit loops forward rather than pulling down and forward on the cheek pieces. Doesn't mean it won't work (mine quite liked her NS Universal and Micklem combo) but it does reduce / change the impact...

Nathe do do a pelham though you may need a small mortgage to buy it! http://www.horsebitbank.com/nathe-9/pelhams-2-116.dhtml

 

[neddy man]

ditto auslander -my similar mare is also occasionally ridden in a market Harborough ,[not to everyones taste ,and you do need very light hands ]

 

[millitiger]

I've put him back in the elevator instead of the micklem in preparation for standing and new bit as although I like the micklem I feel it can cause some instability through the bit

 

[Darremi]

Can you train with a standing martingale? Will help him understand quicker in the long run. I personally LOVE Harbridges which helped enormously with my sensitive in the contact horse but not convinced I would jump in one, but maybe I would if looser as has elastic inserts. I used to put mine in a Harbridge every couple of weeks for his flatwork and it made a huge difference to his understanding and not being able to avoid the contact.

I was always taught you were not supposed to use a standing martingale for jumping...It's very restrictive.

 

[khalswitz]

I was always taught you were not supposed to use a standing martingale for jumping...It's very restrictive.

The flash was invented to allow show jumpers the effect of a drop whilst using a standing martingale. They are widely used in sj.

 

[Darremi]

I am surprised by that. I have not been show jumping often but when I have I never saw one being used. They are not permitted for eventing.

 

[TarrSteps]

I was always taught you were not supposed to use a standing martingale for jumping...It's very restrictive.

They are pretty common equipment for American show hunters and trust me, no one dies from it. They are also allowed in lower jumper classes, although they are not allowed in FEI and similar classes. (They used to be and it's not entirely clear why that changed, since there isn't any evidence they caused problems. Given how many rules don't really have basis in science or sense, it's impossible to judge by that standard alone.)

I've ridden horses for people who use them as standard and never had a problem with a properly adjusted one. I much prefer them to running martingales for young horses, not just because they have a milder action but because they are truly neutral - I don't believe the rings on a running are neutral - I can feel the effect on the reins in my hand, I'm sure horses can feel it in their mouths. For older horses, jumping big jumps who need a martingale, runnings are very useful and many people use them as standard, and are probably more suitable. But that is a long way from saying standings are dangerous.

 

[Darremi]

They are pretty common equipment for American show hunters and trust me, no one dies from it. They are also allowed in lower jumper classes, although they are not allowed in FEI and similar classes. (They used to be and it's not entirely clear why that changed, since there isn't any evidence they caused problems. Given how many rules don't really have basis in science or sense, it's impossible to judge by that standard alone.)

I've ridden horses for people who use them as standard and never had a problem with a properly adjusted one. I much prefer them to running martingales for young horses, not just because they have a milder action but because they are truly neutral - I don't believe the rings on a running are neutral - I can feel the effect on the reins in my hand, I'm sure horses can feel it in their mouths. For older horses, jumping big jumps who need a martingale, runnings are very useful and many people use them as standard, and are probably more suitable. But that is a long way from saying standings are dangerous.

I agree with your point regarding the running martingale. Too many inexperienced people just chuck them on because everybody else does it without thinking about whether they really need it or not. Personally I stopped using martingales years ago. Even on horses that throw their head up wildly I never found it particularly helpful.

 

[khalswitz]

I agree with your point regarding the running martingale. Too many inexperienced people just chuck them on because everybody else does it without thinking about whether they really need it or not. Personally I stopped using martingales years ago. Even on horses that throw their head up wildly I never found it particularly helpful.

I've found them the absolute best thing for rearers. Was the only thing that helped with my old chronic rearer was a standing. I hate running martingales, I have one but use it as a standing as I hate the interference with my hands.

A properly adjusted standing can be very useful, however like TS says I wouldn't be jumping big fences with it.

It's funny, eventers are picky about a lot of things sjers aren't, standings for one, market harboroughs another. Think they've fallen a bit out f fashion now but standings were all the rage with sjers for a long time.