Some CC please on my 4yo (and me!)

[EquestrianFairy]

This is my newly aquired 4yo, shes been with me for 4 weeks and as some of you may know ive had a few rough weeks and have debated giving up.

I am unable to get an instructor at present so need all the help i can get if i am going to really make some changes.

Im mainly working on getting her to actuallly go forward as she can be quite backwards at times (literally) this could just be testing me but anyway, moving off my leg and forward is the main aim at the moment, she enjoys jumping but hasnt done a lot so some pole work and small jumps to show her they wont eat her are also in the pipeline.

The video isnt brilliant but its the best i could get, be open and honest.

Thanks



(Video ^^^^) Be prepared to have to turn your head at one point!

 

[Ranyhyn]

No cc from me only a question - when will your lorry be ready for you to come to club?

 

[EquestrianFairy]

No cc from me only a question - when will your lorry be ready for you to come to club?

Its booked in for January 13th- should be told an approx finishing date then (no more than a few weeks i cant imagine at the very maximum )

 

[Ranyhyn]

Good also, this might be useful posted in CR as they have lots of experience with youngsters

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Good also, this might be useful posted in CR as they have lots of experience with youngsters

Oh blimey not sure how to re-post the samw photos etc.
ha!

Will give it a go.

 

[Tammytoo]

She's only 4 so I would forget jumping and going round and round in the school if she's not very forward. Get her out hacking, loose rein, forget outline that won't come until you get forward. If she's reluctant to move on flap with your legs and swing your arms left to right so the reins are flapping against her neck. Not pretty, but she needs to be encouraged forward. You could also try a Whipwop which is a thick soft rope that you flap on alternate sides of her shoulders. Is there someone you could ride out with to encourage her forward as well?

She's got another couple of years growing, both mental and physical so be patient and don't rush her. She does look a little unhappy, so perhaps she is one that needs bringing on slowly.

I presume you've had back,teeth, saddle checked?

 

[Ranyhyn]

copy and paste the whole post should work.

Anyway as far as going forward is concerned I think she's doing that nicely I'm a little concerned about head carriage but that could be remembered pain from her teeth? Overall she looks tense but that's to be expected I feel a bloody windy day!!

 

[Mrs_Wishkabibble]

Not CC as such but if she were mine I would do the usual back, teeth saddle checks as to me she doesn't look a very happy bunny and if all that was fine I wouldn't do too much school work I would do more hacking to get her more forward.

But then - I am no expert that's just my opinion!

 

[cally6008]

Not the best conditions to be riding in, sounds awfully windy and raining as well ? Could be the reason why she doesn't look too impressed ?

All I could say is to relax your hands a little bit, they appear to be very fixed in the one position with no give and take in them

Moving blown down jumps to edge of school, centre of school or even other side of school fence will give you more room to ride in

 

[Ranyhyn]

Yes I would say move jumps also kid, especially on a horse that you don't know quite whats what yet with I don't want you sporting a bad back and ear after coming off into one!!xxx

 

[MissTyc]

She reminds me a lot of a 5yo gelding I had last year - he was an absolute poppet but moved very similarly - turned out his saddle had started interfering with shoulder movement as he grew - he actually had some subtle muscle wastage because of it but when you see them every day and they are changing shape, growing, it's not always obvious. He too struggled to go forwards ... only to then zoom off down the gallops with excitement when it was time for a proper run. A lot of it was age, some was shoulder pain and after we sorted the saddle I turned him away for 8 weeks and he came back a different horse.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

She had her teeth done last week (VERY SHARP), back done yesterday (there was some soreness from the previous saddle before she came to me but re-checked new saddle and physio/saddler are happy) and new saddle was fitted about 3 weeks ago. I have just ordered her a NS Lozenge bit also as i think this would be better than the Myler she is currently in.

What i tend to do is hack her out at the beginning, give her 10 mins in the school then hack out again at the end. Sometimes with company, sometimes without. Shes a lot better than she was (going forward!) and even broke into a canter across the field today of her own accord.
Her ears are normally forward when out hacking, in the school today my friend was sat on her companion and she disliked the fact i was asking her to move away from him. Though im not sure if this is to blame or just an added extra.
I dont know how to make horses work in an outline anyway so i dont try to

Point take re: jumps, it was sheer laziness from my end.

 

[nikCscott]

Hacking is the way forward with youngsters, she looks either grumpy or bored - which may be down to the weather and school conditions too (just seen your post regarding companion- my bad).

She looks sweet- have fun together and develop at her pace.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Agreed also that 4 is very young and most of the focus should be on having fun and forwards like you are- so don't worry about the schooling really yet!! I actually didn't realise she was 4 I thought she was 5 going on 6!!

 

[EquestrianFairy]

CC- so did I! Vet reckons she's more like 4 going on 5.

 

[samlf]

I would stick to hacking with pretty much no school work (maybe once a fortnight) until you can get her moving forward- but make sure its when YOU ask, not when she feels like. Make sure you have her saddle checked, she looks a bit uncomfortable but could be weather/balance.
I'd suggest a schooling whip, when she doesnt move forward the second you ask, give her a tickle, if she doesnt move forward again, little smack etc.
I would absolutely not bother with jumping her yet! I've got a 6yo that is probably as green as yours, she hasnt even seen a jump since I've had her (august)

 

[EquestrianFairy]

I did have a schooling whip on me but it's not very noticeable in the photos.

I'll take your advice on the jumping and leave that out for the moment, her owner had taken her XC and SJ schooling that's why I had orinigially tried to keep it In there somewhere.

 

[ladyt25]

I haven't watched the vids as my laptop is a bit of a pain. However, I would agree with what most others have said - give the schooling a rest. Concentrate on getting her out hacking and having fun. IF you are going to school then forget the jumping - if she's not balanced and doesn't have an established canter (which she's unlikely to be at 4) then she will find jumping tricky and you could end up putting her off asking too much of her.

If I was domng school work, i would concentrate on asking her to walk well, halt and ask for some circles, serpentines and the like. I would not though do more than 30 mins max, otherwise they get bored (well schooling is v dull!) and will lose concentration. You want to aim for a nice, balanced and confident walk - think how you are sat, ie sit up, look ahead and think how you are carrying your hands. To be honest, much of how the horse goes is from the balance of the rider so think about YOU when you're riding - how YOU could improve your posture.

In the pics posted you look a bit tipped forwards and look like you are balancing by using your hands and you need to work on rectifying this ( I am though only going from the shots I can see). The rest will come. The worst thing you cando is too much too soon in my opinion. She's 4, don't rush her. Sure, some 4 yos are more advanced than others but I think taking things steady is generally the best approach. little steps - don't expect to get everything perfect to start with.

 

[somethingorother]

i would concentrate on relaxing. Being so tense can make a horse more 'backwards' and you do look very tense, particularly in the upper body. your shoulders and arms are particularly rigid, and you seem to use your hands a lot for steering.

I recommend 'invisible riding' by sylvia loch. It really makes you think about all the effects every tiny movement has on your horse, it's a bit like magic if you try it, you can do so much in walk, and you will have such a responsive and well schooled horse. It's about time i re-read it actually.

Hacking might do you both good, will give you time to get to know each other, for you to relax more and for her to relax and learn her teeth and saddle aren't going to hurt her. Post photos in summer when she's all shiny and filling out, she is lovely

 

[samlf]

Are you using the schooling whip properly though? I ask once, if they dont listen they got told, if they still doesnt listen they got told more firmly - you need to be consistent.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Thankyou somethingorother- I will look into that book right now...

Samlf, I'm probably being rather lenient on her if I'm honest as I don't know her very well and ridden work has only really started properly this week due to things like her teeth etc needing doing.

 

[somethingorother]

Are you using the schooling whip properly though? I ask once, if they dont listen they got told, if they still doesnt listen they got told more firmly - you need to be consistent.

This is not how you use a schooling whip.

'Taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap' *any forward movement* and immediately stop tapping. It shouldn't hurt. Especially a baby, that's not a good way to train a young horse.

ETS i find the feeling i look for in a schooling whip is more a bouncing off the horse, it stops your arms from getting tense again, which would effectively block any forward movement and make for a tense confused horse. I'm no carl hester, but all my riding is focussed around being relaxed and then build on that.

 

[rhino]

This is not how you use a schooling whip.

'Taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap' *any forward movement* and immediately stop tapping. It shouldn't hurt. Especially a baby, that's not a good way to train a young horse.

I disagree. That's called nagging and it's no wonder a horse will switch off.

What's the Einstein quote 'Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'

Not that I like schooling whips anyway

 

[samlf]

This is not how you use a schooling whip.

'Taptaptaptaptaptaptaptaptap' *any forward movement* and immediately stop tapping. It shouldn't hurt. Especially a baby, that's not a good way to train a young horse.

ETS i find the feeling i look for in a schooling whip is more a bouncing off the horse, it stops your arms from getting tense again, which would effectively block any forward movement and make for a tense confused horse. I'm no carl hester, but all my riding is focussed around being relaxed and then build on that.

I dont mean it should hurt at all... the horse should learn to respond to pressure, by increasing the pressure until it learns to move from the pressure.
I disagree with your method - if you nag all the horse will do is learn to ignore it.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

For what it's worth (and clearly I'm no Ellen Whittaker) I use it to back up my leg generally. However I am more lenient on her and not very harsh in any respect.

 

[LouandBee]

Hi,

When was the video taken? - if you only had her back looked at yesterday should she not have the day off today? My physio always recommends one days rest and a couple days in walk after just a routine visit.

I agree that she doesn't look very happy - bit stuffy through the shoulder, almost like the saddle is too far forward. I wouldn't school more than once a week at the mo and keep it a lot more interesting than just going round and round the outside. Do some circles, changes of rein, serpentines, walk -trot -walk- halt transitions perhaps a bit of gentle leg yeilding.

Also agree that you seem to be doing all the steering with your hands - I remember a Pippa Funnel video recommending using a neck strap and taking a hold of it to stop you steering with your hands.

Hope that's of some help.

 

[TigerTail]

Hi Im an enlightened equitation teacher in training so this sort of thread is great for me to practise on!

To me is sounds like she has had an awful lot thrown at her for 4 yrs old. Her body still has a lot of growing to do and thats a huge amount for her brain to take in at that age!

RE your riding - you look like you have your reins too short which is pulling you forward, I think you are also relying on them a little to get you out of the saddle in RT. Try to keep your little fingers in touch with the pommel of the saddle to keep their movement to a minimum. In RT also please think about landing very softly, using your thighs to slow your descent, there is a reflex point just behind the back of the saddle and if you thump down you depress it which isnt nice for the horse.

When turning I notice that A the horse isnt sure what you're asking and B you are doing it all with rein aid (though vid isnt clear enough to show any leg movements so apologies if you are asking with opposite leg). You should advance the hip which is the direction you want to go, ie turning left left hip, which you can do in all gaits. Also ask using vibrations along the rein and then squeeze and release if that doesnt work, rather than the big pull you are doing.

RE the schooling whip discussion - a horse can shudder a fly off its skin, of course it can feel you hitting it harder and harder. If she isnt very forward going you can whizz the whip end in the air which makes a funny noise, or tap your boot or the fence with it to make a noise. Hitting is pointless and ruins them for more refined work later.

I would also query whether your seat is blocking her movement, you do drive with both seatbones together in your rising trot so thats entirely possible but i cant see clearly enough to comment further.

How come you cant have an instructor? Id be doing flexions and re educating her mouth about the bit as it doesnt look like shes too clear what she should be doing. In hand work would also be very beneficial

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Tiger tail- that's a lot to take in, but thankyou and I can see what you mean.

I can't hve an outside instructor on my yard but the YO is too busy to teach me so I'm a little stuck until my lorry is fixed and I can travel somewhere for lessons.

I've actually ordered her a NS losenge snaffle as I also don't think she's happy in the myler.
The video was taken before the Physio came if that helps?

I'm going to get a second opinion on the saddle as there is only one saddler in my area and I do think perhaps he could have done better re: saddle because it often throws me forward.

 

[TigerTail]

oops sorry if i got carried away!

Try working on one criticism a week and re post a vid in a month or two?

Is that yard policy?! Thats attrocious, especially if the YO hasnt the time. Id be saying I wasnt happy with that and who I had to teach me was my business, say you want a dressage, or young specialist or something to get round it?

Where are you?

 

[somethingorother]

I dont mean it should hurt at all... the horse should learn to respond to pressure, by increasing the pressure until it learns to move from the pressure.
I disagree with your method - if you nag all the horse will do is learn to ignore it.

Ive never needed to do it for more than a few seconds, i wouldn't call that nagging. Horses i have used this method on have quickly got the idea that forward movement is required and if not i have used the schooling whip against my boot after a few 'bounces'. They soon learn to associate as long as they are rewarded for forward movement and not blocked by the riders weight aids etc. I used this when getting switched off riding school ponies to be more responsive, with one of my favourite ever instructors. It worked wonders on them within half an hour and they were used to being kicked and hit repeatedly.

By increasing the 'pressure', i can't see any other meaning other than hitting harder?