Someone send me positive vibes before I have a full breakdown

[J_sarahd]

As some of you know, Shadow had his hocks injected on 11th February. Since then, he’s been quite good - the aggression has really improved, he feels more forward out hacking and I’ve noticed little things like he feels better going down hill and he’s better picking his back feet up.

I had the farrier out today for routine trim as the vet didn’t say anything about shoeing him. I told my farrier the latest update and he asked to see him trotted up. After which, he said that he’s still lame and that he was lame in walk AFTER the trot up (this is not something I’ve noticed while riding). He’s always more cautious on stony ground and may have the odd “footsore” moment, but when I’m hacking, if I walk him on the grass, he’s nice and forward and swinging. Again, never noticed him lame in trot since the steroid injections.

I’m ringing the vets tomorrow to discuss. They said give the steroids 4-6 weeks to properly take effect, which will be next week. Am I overthinking? Am I under thinking?! My brain is scrambled because things felt like they were improving.

Not really sure what I’m expecting to get out of this thread because none of you have seen him. I guess it’s just a bit of a brain dump.

 

[I'm Dun]

How much do you trust your farrier to see lameness? I can think of a fair few I'd not trust to spot a lame horse if it tap danced on their head, but others Id listen to.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I was just about to say, is he still lame? And how much do you trust your farrier.

Was it a footsore type of lame?

 

[J_sarahd]

To be fair, the only person/people I truly trust to detect lameness is a handful of vets. Like really truly trust - unless horse is HOPPING lame but then I would hope I’d spot it myself even if I’m the one trotting them up.

The car park we walk through to get to the flat drive is very stony and most horses do throw in the odd lame step on there, even some shod ones sometimes. So it could be a footsore type lameness

 

[tda]

He could be just a little sore, spring grass is growing, he just had steroids. Sorry can't remember, was he shod before?

 

[J_sarahd]

He could be just a little sore, spring grass is growing, he just had steroids. Sorry can't remember, was he shod before?

He was at a previous home but has never been shod with me

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is this the farrier that said that Shadow had sickle hocks? Might the farrier have an agenda re the vet saying that he didn’t have sickle hocks after all?

 

[J_sarahd]

Is this the farrier that said that Shadow had sickle hocks? Might the farrier have an agenda re the vet saying that he didn’t have sickle hocks after all?

Yeah it is. I hadn’t thought of that. You’re right - vet took one look at him and said he isn’t sickle hocked and that he just has typical connemara hind conformation

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Mine (unshod) does take the occasional odd step on certain rocks (we have gravel they varies in sizes and spread, when it's even, it's not an issue) which doesn't offend me too much.

Was he lame before or after the trim?

Spring grass can make some horses footy.

I mean, you could shoe him or put boots in and see what happens, but I don't know if that'll be or get to the bottom of the issue.

 

[paddy555]

So it could be a footsore type lameness

what if you put boots on?

 

[PurBee]

It may well be it’s not seen/felt when ridden due to the natural adrenaline that’s usually coupled with exercise, inhibits pain. Hence why when not tacked-up and exercising but just trotted-up ad hoc, lameness can show.

I had first hand experience the power of adrenaline as pain relief, when i was walking with a stick a few years back when my knee joint was impossible to weight bear. Truly crippled by it.
I’d put my horses in a new field section, in which they were running like loonies, one bucked and caught the electric fence with their fetlock, dragging the fence down and pulling-out and snapping some stakes. My heart leapt to my throat, adrenaline panic surged through me, and i was running towards the fencing to fix it absolutely pain-free! Not a twinge of even mild pain. I was absolutely shocked at the difference.
I sorted the mess, with OH help, and was pain free until calm, and walked-away hobbling again! I kept asking OH to scare me for some pain-free moments in the subsequent days lol

 

[Equi]

Was his proclamation followed by “he would do better with shoes on?”

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Tbh, I wouldn't ask that farrier about anything much, after the sickle hocks stuff. I fact if the vet says horse has no lameness, I would find a new farrier.

 

[J_sarahd]

Mine (unshod) does take the occasional odd step on certain rocks (we have gravel they varies in sizes and spread, when it's even, it's not an issue) which doesn't offend me too much.

Was he lame before or after the trim?

Spring grass can make some horses footy.

I mean, you could shoe him or put boots in and see what happens, but I don't know if that'll be or get to the bottom of the issue.

Before the trim. Yeah he always throws the odd misstep on stones and is super cautious walking over them out hacking. It’s the teeny ones over to top of a hard surface that are the worst for him.

Was his proclamation followed by “he would do better with shoes on?”

To be fair to my farrier, no! He said he would like to put wedges on him but his feet are quite upright so that will cause more strain on his pedal bone. He said to speak to my vet to see if they’d recommend shoeing all round as they often do apparently. Obviously his bank account would prefer me to shoe him all round, but he didn’t push it.

 

[J_sarahd]

Tbh, I wouldn't ask that farrier about anything much, after the sickle hocks stuff. I fact if the vet says horse has no lameness, I would find a new farrier.

I’m definitely far too trusting of these professionals. I’ll see what the vet says as they might be able to pop out if they pass by just to see him trotted up to put my mind at ease/decide if I need to take him in. I know it’ll be a lot of money just to put my mind at ease but anxiety and broken horses are not a fun mix!

Thankfully, farrier is moving to Wales soon so I’ll be needing to get a new one anyway.

 

[Clodagh]

As someone who never had a barefoot horse and am pretty ignorant about it…
I always feel sorry for unshod horses picking their way up the road or on tracks and not walking out properly. It may be that is ‘normal’ and walking well on all terrain is a man made artificiality .
I’m not saying your farrier is right or wrong ( but he does sound like a complete pessimist). I couldn’t see anything awful about his hocks back when you posted the photos, that’s for sure.

 

[ycbm]

As someone who never had a barefoot horse and am pretty ignorant about it…
I always feel sorry for unshod horses picking their way up the road or on tracks and not walking out properly. It may be that is ‘normal’ and walking well on all terrain is a man made artificiality .

No Clodah, it isn't normal and nor should it be.
.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I’m definitely far too trusting of these professionals. I’ll see what the vet says as they might be able to pop out if they pass by just to see him trotted up to put my mind at ease/decide if I need to take him in. I know it’ll be a lot of money just to put my mind at ease but anxiety and broken horses are not a fun mix!

Thankfully, farrier is moving to Wales soon so I’ll be needing to get a new one anyway.

I have learnt my lesson the hard way! I had blind trust in my old farrier (he worked with loads if vets and had a great rep) and just allowed my old horse’s feet to deteriorate to literally breaking point, then abandoned me saying there was nothing more he could do, that’s when i decided to learn about hooves and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I’ve since spoken to many professionals who i’ve walked away from scratching my head wondering what planet they’re on, and noted not to heed their advice in future. Trust your gut!

 

[Miss_Millie]

Sorry to hear this Sarah, was just thinking of you wondering how you're getting on with Shadow.

If you're comfortable with sharing a video of him being walked, trotted up, maybe the forum hivemind could help advise? I agree with others that footiness from new grass shoots could be the cause - it's a really useful first sign that something is up metabolically sometimes and quite common. Not as obvious in shod horses - they will still be footsore but that extra inch off the ground masks the root problem, which means you're less likely to notice and act on it until it gets really bad.

 

[Clodagh]

No Clodah, it isn't normal and nor should it be.
.

I’m not having a go at OP and did not intend it to come across as such. I met a pony on the byway today and it prompted the question and possibly inappropriately asked here.
Sorry, should have started a new thread.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

No Clodah, it isn't normal and nor should it be.
.

Is any misstep ok? Genuine question. If a horse steps on large rock, it feels different than the rest of the dirt road or small gravel that the horse was walking on.

Not walking normal stride after stride I have an issue with or when they're clearly seeking the right path out of pain/discomfort.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Before the trim. Yeah he always throws the odd misstep on stones and is super cautious walking over them out hacking. It’s the teeny ones over to top of a hard surface that are the worst for him.

To be fair to my farrier, no! He said he would like to put wedges on him but his feet are quite upright so that will cause more strain on his pedal bone. He said to speak to my vet to see if they’d recommend shoeing all round as they often do apparently. Obviously his bank account would prefer me to shoe him all round, but he didn’t push it.

So why did wedges even enter the chat? I'm confused by that one.

I think it is time for a new farrier, and I see that's naturally going to happen anyway.

I'm curious about what your vet says re the lameness (if there is any). Don't press the panic button just yet. Sending some positive vibes your way!

 

[J_sarahd]

So why did wedges even enter the chat? I'm confused by that one.

I think it is time for a new farrier, and I see that's naturally going to happen anyway.

I'm curious about what your vet says re the lameness (if there is any). Don't press the panic button just yet. Sending some positive vibes your way!

He said because of his conformation, he could benefit from wedges. He used to be quite camped under and my farrier said that will help with that. However, I have noticed that his posture has improved since the steroids

 

[Miss_Millie]

He said because of his conformation, he could benefit from wedges. He used to be quite camped under and my farrier said that will help with that. However, I have noticed that his posture has improved since the steroids

If you feel comfortable, you could post some side on photos of the hoofs. The hoof angle, amount of heel etc really impacts posture. I've learnt so much from past hoof threads

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I am definitely unimpressed with your farrier. It is pretty obvious now that the horse was standing camped under to relieve the pain in his hocks and farrier should have known enough to wonder if there was a problem with them, rather than talking about using wedges on unshod hooves. I'm glad he's moving away from your area. I would be looking for a new farrier asap.

 

[Lois Lame]

They said give the steroids 4-6 weeks to properly take effect, which will be next week.

When something takes time, you've got to give it that time, and maybe sometimes a bit longer.

 

[Lois Lame]

Is this the farrier that said that Shadow had sickle hocks? Might the farrier have an agenda re the vet saying that he didn’t have sickle hocks after all?

Interesting farrier. Sounds like a bit of a show-off, then gets things wrong.

 

[nutjob]

Since then, he’s been quite good - the aggression has really improved, he feels more forward out hacking and I’ve noticed little things like he feels better going down hill and he’s better picking his back feet up.

If he feels better, then he is better. There may be more to go but he's heading in the right direction. If you've had some recent sun then the grass growth might be having some effect on the feet, it's worth checking for heat or digital pulses. Can you send a video to the vet and just have a visit if it looks like he's not making the expected progress.

 

[sbloom]

I just want to add, without knowing the full story and who might be right, that causality is very hard to determine.

Hock problems are seldom isolated and are related to both movement/posture (which may or may not include sickle hocks which ARE often a sign of compromised movement patterns, not just conformation) and to hoof balance. They feedback to each other and not only is it seldom, imo, possible to determine what was primary, it generally offers no benefit. All aspects need addressing and I do have a problem with vets medicating joints and not looking at movement patterns at all.

So often rehab is rudimentary (just upping workload gradually for instance), harmful (adding extra load eg polework) or non-existent.

Yogi Sharpe has done some great webinars on these relationships in the horse's body, and there's good stuff on equitopiacenter.com.

When you're caught between professionals the very best thing you can do is educate yourself on the best current thinking so you can
assess your own horse and the advice you're being given. There is SO MUCH to know to be the best possible horse owner, it's not easy and I wish you luck.

 

[ycbm]

Is any misstep ok? Genuine question. If a horse steps on large rock, it feels different than the rest of the dirt road or small gravel that the horse was walking on.

Not walking normal stride after stride I have an issue with or when they're clearly seeking the right path out of pain/discomfort.

Yes of course. I'm afraid I've always laughed at people who think it's wrong that a barefoot horse is sensible enough to move their foot off a big stone. Congratulating themselves meanwhile that their horse with numb shod feet can't feel enough to know that would be a sensible thing to do. Or taking just as many out of sequence steps, but they only notice the ones taken by the barefoot horse.

Like you, I have a very big problem with people not realising that they need to be looking at why their barefoot horses are trying to avoid the path/ road and creep onto the grass verge.

.