Something to condition but not with fillers

holeymoley

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My old boy is 23 now and is EMS insulin resistant but is needing a little bit more condition.

For some background, he's basically what they call 'reversed' since his serious laminitic episode 6 years ago. He isn't reactive to grass and copes fine with the management he's on and has been on in the last 5 years. However the worry is still there so he is treated as such. He doesn't hold any fat pads/crest/swollen orbits etc and insulin levels and cushings levels are always tested regularly and are low. He is muzzled to reduce grass intake and his hay is weighed although no longer soaked. He is now turned out every day for 12 hours approximately and doing just fine. He did drop a bit more weight than I would have liked this last Winter but I put it down to depressing yard routine of limited turnout and quite an unfortunate dark and dreary stable. We have now moved to a much better yard which comprises of the forage freedom and friends and a lovely bigger brighter stable. I am very wary of any hard feed given and I'm quite a fan of Simple Systems which I converted to through laminitis to strip everything from his diet and go back to basics. I now feel he needs a little extra help though.

I don't want to over condition but looking for something with a little bit more to it without adding any nasties or going much more over the 10% sugar & starch recommendation. Everything I seem to look at has quite a lot of 'rubbish' in it. He is currently fed Honeychop Chaff with SS Lucie Fibre Cubes. He is fine with alfalfa. In the Winter he had speedi beet/SS purabeet. My local feed shop had some A&P samples which I was willing to try even for a short period of time, although ingredients looked questionable. I got some samples of the muscle & focus and then seen that it said not suitable for laminitics! Does anyone have any recommendations? The A&P feeds sound good but I can't understand why this one said not suitable for laminitics other than the combined sugar & starch was 12.5% which isn't really that over the top. Not really a fan of D&H or Spillers. Topspec I don't mind. I do run through ingredients with a fine toothed comb! Do I go for a linseed mash or something? Pink mash I've looked at too although shouldn't go down the route of soya so that's bombed that out. Any ideas greatfully received! As said even if it is something short term to just get that little extra on him that's needed.
 

Dam1

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My mare is the same as this - EMS and PPID. Her top line is not the best but I'm reticent to up her diet as slightly paranoid about extra sugar/starch . I spoke to forage plus who advised to add a protein powder such as pea protein or their top line plus. If you go on their website there is a Learn section which explains the benefits etc. Also second linseed meal
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Sanversera

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micronized linseed .it has lots of calories but no sugar or startch. introduce gradulally or it may cause scouring until the horse is used to digesting it.
 

holeymoley

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I'd top up what you're already feeding with micronised linseed, well actually I'd probably sack off the honeychop and switch out to a low sugar/starch grass chaff option.
Thanks, the Honeychop isn't too bad a mix, it's the chopped straw with Timothy grass version and only comes in at a total of 4% S&S combined.
 

holeymoley

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Thanks everyone. It looks like micronized linseed is maybe the answer. I've upped his hay by an extra 1kg too so we'll see how that goes.

With regards to A&P feed it was the muscle & focus that we had a sample of but there's not much difference to ingredients in that and the care & gain, other than having 3.5% more sugar & starch. Both have 12% protein and 10.5/10.75 DE.

Muscle & Focus
Oat Straw Pellets, Molasses Free Beet Pulp, Wheat Feed, Linseed Expeller, Pea Protein, Field Beans (Fava), Rapeseed Oil, Salt, Di-calcium Phosphate, Maerl (0.6%), Calcium Carbonate, Mint, Apple Fibres(0.25%), Seaweed, Brewers Yeast, Vitamin and Mineral Premix, Sodium Bicarbonate, Fenugreek, Fructo-oligosaccharides (0.07%), Dandelion, Yeast Products (0.04%)

Care & Gain
Oat Straw Pellets, Molasses Free Beet Pulp, Linseed Expeller, Field Beans (Fava), Pea Protein, Rapeseed Oil, Di-calcium Phosphate, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Mint, Vitamin and Mineral Premix, Fenugreek, Yeast Products (0.12%), Seaweed, Nettle, Dandelion, Fructo-oligosaccharides (0.05%)
 

Pearlsasinger

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I wouldn't feed oat straw in any form to something that I wanted to gain weight, that is just wasted bulk. Have you considered grass chaff? I don't know the comparative sugar levels of the different ones but would think it worth looking into.
 
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paddy555

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My mare is the same as this - EMS and PPID. Her top line is not the best but I'm reticent to up her diet as slightly paranoid about extra sugar/starch . I spoke to forage plus who advised to add a protein powder such as pea protein or their top line plus. If you go on their website there is a Learn section which explains the benefits etc. Also second linseed meal
X
my horse is similar but already having pea protein and micro linseed. He is also kept off grass with the EMS so everything has to be either hay with relatively low protein levels or bagged feed which is low S & S and some are not very high protein to make up for the majority of his diet which is hay. Having done a lot of reading on this I have decided to increase the protein with soya. Things like grass nuts would be great but higher S & S. Less than a kilo of alfa A and a previously sound horse was hobbling so alfalfa is out of it.

There is a good article on FP about laminitis/protein and I had reached that conclusion then read the article so knew I was on the right track.
I know people don't like soya but I had this problem 10 years ago with a similar off grass PPID and it worked so we will see.

I started thinking about soya after an article on Claire Mc's FP page suggesting feeds for other uses than labelled for. One was Spiller gro and win stud balancer. The top ingredient was soya.
Hopefully my horse won't be allergic to soya.

this the FP protein lami article in case anyone hasn't read it.
 

khalswitz

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I feed copra and micronised linseed for weight gain.

However, both copra and linseed have adverse Calcium: Phosphorus ratio - so remember to balance either of them with additional dietary calcium. Limestone flour is a cheap and easy way to do so.
 

nikkimariet

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I had my exracer on linseed oil + Saracen fibre cubes as a mash after he’d had lami (farrier induced). He was a real poor doer but looked great on this at nearly 20yo.
 
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