Soooo even the RVC are stumped with Aris problem....

[MrsMagoo]

This is getting a nightmare now - Ari, since the nerve block has since had x-rays and scans on back and hind leg which showed nothing. Sooo vet referred her to the RVC for a full workup etc. WELLLL vet there has just called, done the workup and assessment, definately a problem, i.e cant canter etc but as ive already had all the bone scans and x-rays done he's at a loss of what to do and maybe the problems psychological - well hell the hell do you deal with that???? erghhhhh

Said maybe its worth doing the bone scan again and having a 2nd opinion?? Has anyone done this? Also anyone had a horse with a psychological problem??

Thanks

 

[burtie]

Umm, tough call I don't know your full history and I'm sure others will shoot me down, but I'm old fashioned when it comes to horses and belive time and Dr Green are fantastic healers when no other obvious causes are found. I'd be very tempted at this point to find a very good grass livery with lots of other horses, possibly even a good retirement plpace and just stick her in a field for a year and see what happens. Henryhorn I'm sure will testify to how many of the oldies she gets seem so much better when turned out with herd and left to be horses for a while!

 

[ihatework]

i would wholeheartedly agree with burtie and let mother nature take its course

 

[MrsMagoo]

Shes only 7yrs lol

 

[burtie]

[ QUOTE ]
Shes only 7yrs lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying retire her, just to put her out in a big field in a big herd and leave her alone for a year, better if it's with some sensible oldies so a retirement livery would be a good place to put her!

 

[Alibear]

have the RVC vets seens the results of the scan's you've already had done?I't possible they'll spot something someone else missed.

Or option 2 which is horrid but has a tendancy to work, work her hard to make it worse then get her rescanned. (said it was horrid)

 

[MrsMagoo]

well the could be a possibility, just means more expense which before all this i was trying to get rid of lol...may have to chat up a few friends...shes had about 2months of now...

 

[MrsMagoo]

Yeh we have tried the working hard bit, intense schooling/lunging/hacking everyday for about month which didnt improve the problem or make it terribly worse!!

I did mention to the RVC whether the first scan could be wrong and is it worth doing again, up to me if i want to pay for it done again?

 

[Tempi]

i personally would turn away for a year like the others have said.

 

[aran]

out of interest which vet did you see (sorry if i'm being too nosey!)

 

[MrsMagoo]

what at RVC - TBH I havnt a clue, havnt actually seen him yet. We took her up yesterday out of hours and she will be there until end of week....would have to ask my vet??? whys that?

 

[aran]

Aran was treated at the RVC for his hind limb lameness - he had spavin and they operated. He was treated by Roger Smith who was fantastic - just wondered who you had! I hope they sort it out.

 

[monstermunch]

It may be worth further investigation. If there is lameness it is nearly always started with a problem. However after a while this can be learnt behaviour as they are so used to escaping pain by working one way that even when the problem heals they forget how to work normally again. So yes psychological problem is an option. However you do have to be careful and I would investigate further if you have the money to. If nothing else can be found that it is a possibility that the best thing to do is turn her away. I possibly wouldn't be quite as extremem as to do it for a year but 3-6 months is a good rest period to see whether you get an improvement.
If it is something else have you tried getting a really good thorough therapsit out? You should get him/her checked from top to bottom all the muscles worked on thoroghly to see whether there is an issue here.
I hope you find a solution

 

[star]

[ QUOTE ]
out of interest which vet did you see (sorry if i'm being too nosey!)

[/ QUOTE ]

im nosey too - just wondering coz i've just qualified from there so would be interested to know who you saw. i dont think id' pay for another bone scan, but it's obviously your choice.

 

[MrsMagoo]

OOh thats who she was supposed to have but he was busy in the end - ended up being with another one!!! wishing i'd waited for him now though

 

[Kelly1982]

Oh dear!! You seem to be in the same pradicament as i was with Trike, its horrible not knowing isn't it??

If you have any money left on your insurance then i would keep on with the investigations as she will be excluded after a year so if you turn her away now you will loose out on them paying up on the money you have left (does that make sense).

If you have used it all already then i would do as the others said and turn her away if thats a possibility??

I'm really sorry they haven't come up with an answer

 

[CBFan]

I'd be inclined to get your vet to show them the results from her previous bone scans & xrays as someone pointed out, they might see something that your vet missed.

If it would give you peace of mind and the cost would be covered by your insurance I'd go for a second bone scan. I had my mare bone scanned and xrayed at the RVC just over a year ago in total it came to just under £1500 inc sedation etc. The bonescan showed up 'hot spots' in her hocks but later xrays only showed up minor narrowing of the joint space (the beginings of spavin) but they explained to me that for some horses minor changes can cause quite major discomfort- Could be the case with your mare.

I hope they come up with some explaination. If not I'd go with the others and turn her away for a year...

 

[blaze]

Hi there,

This sounds very like my mare a year or so ago. Nothing conclusive at home so referred to vet hospital. There she had a bone scan and it revealed nothing conclusive either. They were starting to make noises as though it was a behavioural problem but I didn't see why she would suddenly change. Anyway, they kept her in for five days and persevered and investigated both hindlegs - on scanning with the top digital equipment there (not being insulting but most local practices don't have the top whizz-bang stuff to get the clearest images) and lots of nerve blocks, we found suspensory problems and stifle problems. Both legs, so she couldn't favour one over the other. She wouldn't canter either, which is another thing that rang warning bells from your post.

I would second the opinion that you should use your vets' fees now - if you turn your horse away and find yourself in the same position a year from now, you will have to fund all treatment yourself. Also, as the vets have said that there is a problem, but haven't yet got a firm diagnosis, you may find that if you leave treatment at that, after a year you get some interesting and very wide-ranging exclusions to cover every eventuality!

 

[MrsMagoo]

Having spoken to my vet today, i think we are gonna go ahead with a 2nd bone scan on the hope the RVC may spot somthing previously missed...I'm also hoping they investigate her pelvis area a bit more, which they seem not to bothered about doing....ergh...what with men and vets my lifes great at the moment lol...

 

[aran]

ohh - i wonder who you got in the end! if you have any concerns or want them to look at something to put your mind at ease then talk to the vet at the rvc directly - they are friendly and want to help and solve the problem!

 

[MarthaRodman1]

HI there, not much I can add, only that I work at the RVC (and am here now!) My horse was in for Stem Cell treatment and a bursoscopy 2 weeks ago and he was under Roger Smith - all I can add is that is he the dogs...! Did you see a guy called Tom?? he's v good to, but thats not to say the rest of them aren't. Roger's specialty and baby is tendons and ligaments. Anyway, def go for more investigations, as someone else said, you need to use up all your insurance monies otherwise in a year you'll be funding anything further yourself! Is your mare still here?? I can see the hospital block from my office! She'll be well looked after, the girls are lovely. They'll find the problem I'm sure. You never know your vet may have missed something on the first bone scans!

 

[MrsMagoo]

Hi there...oh you can see my girly then...shes in the shavings barn, light bay mare bout 16.1, you may have seen being heaved into a doorway as only way to get her in lol...

She will be there until end of week...was hopeing to have Roger but he was busy. Havnt actually seen the vet thats working with her as we checked her in Sunday afternoon. Cant think of his name, but foriegn lol...

 

[MarthaRodman1]

I'll pop over and say hi to her for you - whats her name Aris? will go armed with Polos and tell her they are from Mummy!!! All the vets are good here, and I'll be able to tell you the name of the vet as it says it on the card on their door. Will pop over tomorrow as leaving at 4 today so prob won't have time today.

 

[MrsMagoo]

Oh thanks, thats nice. Her names Arizona

 

[star]

was it Ehud? he's a very good vet (well they all are) but he knows his stuff and should be able to sort her out for you. it's weird that i'm not there anymore - still call it my college. Ehud's the only foreign one i can think of at the moment but they may have had a new one start since i left. hope they sort her out for you.

 

[Sal_E]

Could an MRI been an option as something different to a bone scan?

 

[Lottie7]

I sympathise with you. Have they considered EPSM?

My own horse could not canter - he had a long list of symptoms bless him. He had the full work up like your horse - full scintigraphy, xrays of hock and stifle, untrasound of ligaments along the back, nerve blocks, new saddles, copious physio and back people - ANOTHER full scintigraphy. They initially thought it was sacroilliac injury (gave a VERY guarded prognosis) then they decided that it was a spavin.

However it turn out to be a muscle problem caused by a starch / sugar intolerance. I only wish I had known this years ago as it was fairly easily corrected by diet change. You cannot believe that mere diet chance can make such a difference to a horse's way of going and ability to work. He went from not being able to maintain canter for half a circle to eventing.

Have a good research into it. The work of Dr Beth Valentine on www.ruralheritage.com is a good place to start. And if it rings alarm bells with you then don't let the vets fob you off. It is still a little known problem in this country, despite being common, and even the eminient horse vets are slow to grasp its implications. They would rather diagnose something they can see like spavin, stifle or kissing spine.

Good luck getting to the bottom of things.
x

 

[MrsMagoo]

This does sound very much like my mare, and it has been suggested before...I will try and mention it to my vets...

as a quick breakdown, whats the required diet? I did put her on a selenium E vitamin thing

 

[aran]

you can have a muscle biopsy done to test for muscle disorders - they do these at the RVC and do the diagnostics as well.
Its a high fibre, high oil diet with no cereals. you need vit E and selenium because of the high oil
Have they found anything else out?

 

[Kelly1982]

I would ask for a muscle biopsy too, they are not that expensive either so well worth getting done as thats one more thing you have looked into.

When i changed Trike's diet he was on alpha-a lite, buckeye grown 'n' win feed balancer, about 600g soya oil (this depends on your horses weight though) and vit E & selenium.

Just make sure that whatever you decide to put her on is low in sugar, usually lamanitus approved feeds are the best. Dont feed any cereals as someone else suggested and if you put her on beat then use speedibeat instead of sugarbeat.