sore feet causing sore back?

[nikkirip]

Has anyone ever experienced their horse being sore somewhere else but the cause being completely different?

My 10 year old11.2 unshod darty has had intermittent lameness since January. Had vet and Physio and back to vets today.

I was convinced he has problem in pelvis however a very experienced vet has found that he is sore in all four feet. He doesn't believe its laminitis and has asked for a set of shoes and go from there.

I know not gotten to bottom of it yet but anyone had similar experience?

Many thanks,
Nikki

 

[UKa]

Yes - they can be related. My girl has problems in her back and I got her shod a few years ago to eliminate her being sore from her feet. Entirely probable explanation. Good luck I hope you have got to the bottom of your problems

 

[nikkirip]

Thank uka. Did you need to get a Physio/chiro after the shoes were put on as well? Wondering whether he needs chiro visit too. I want to make sure he is comfortable. I still can't comprehend how this can work!

 

[UKa]

I did not get physio related to putting on shoes at the time but I was making precautions to make sure she was comfortable in any possible way - she has issues that are not directly related to feet but it was to eliminate one cause. And my back person that I use now has at times questioned me if I was sure she was not sore in her feet as he has seen many horses where the back pain was related to this.

But if you put on shoes you will probably help your horse a lot for now. See how he goes once shod and feet recover. If in doubt, get someone to "help him along" - a good working by a physio may help the horse just as much as it would help us humans

 

[sweepeep]

I had my pony's back done today and my 'Back Lady' suggested front shoes as the muscles due to a neck injury (just above the withers) were developing in an odd way due to the neck overcompensating for strength needed etc. She believes shoes may help. I'm going to try it...

 

[Nocturnal]

I would be more interested on finding out why her feet are sore, and fixing it, than masking the issue with shoes. Sore feet are a symptom of another problem, and shouldn't - imho - be ignored.

 

[skint1]

Yes, my mare had a lot of issues with her pelvis and neck. We got her a lot of Bowen therapy, which she enjoyed but never really addressed the underlying issue, then we got a really good chiro who explained her pelvis was out of place, and her neck was stiff, she treated but every time she saw the mare (about every 6 weeks) her pelvis was an issue.

We were very novice horse owners and never realised that our old farrier let the mare's heels get under-run and her toes long, she had constant abscesses and didn't take much to lose a shoe, he would just shrug and say "she's a TB that's her conformation"

Eventually someone pointed out her feet were a mess and we got a different farrier, first time he shod her he used NB shoes and equipak, and he put us in touch with an osteopath who came out just once and worked with her. She was immediately a different horse, she really moved so much more freely, didn't fall in around corners, she worked beautifully on a contact, she never reared again, (still did a lot of high spirited bucks though ) and when she had her chiro appts she hardly had any problem at all from then on.

She is now barefoot and doing very well indeed, she has fab feet (though turned away currently) never would have thought that possible when we first got her.

 

[nikkirip]

Vet has suggested concussion because he is overweight and carries me too. I don't know how we'll find out why feet are sore other than xray, scan etc. It's just the start of what may be a long process to finding out what is wring with him. I just don't understand it cos he's never looked footsore. Poor boy.

 

[Victoria25]

Yes, when we bought our new TB home last summer he wouldnt let you groom him or touch his back/neck areas ... he'd bite, tail swish you name it .. hated it!

We had his teeth done not long afterwards which looked like they'd never been touched and they were really bad ... since sorting them out the tail swishing/biting literally stopped over night .. still a grump at times but hey, he's a fella

See post on his teeth - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=477793

 

[Nocturnal]

Vet has suggested concussion because he is overweight and carries me too. I don't know how we'll find out why feet are sore other than xray, scan etc. It's just the start of what may be a long process to finding out what is wring with him. I just don't understand it cos he's never looked footsore. Poor boy.

How utterly bizarre, then, as shoeing will only increase concussion. In the short term you may not notice the effects so much, but the damage will still be being done .

I would not rule out low grade laminitis, personally. What is he being fed, and what grazing is he getting?

 

[loopylucifer]

yep mine has damaged her back in fall. as part of a friends thermography project she was scaned it was quite amazing to actually see the consecqunses of this injury on the rest of her body. the problem is around T15 yet the scan showed tension in her head/ all four feet/ and heat radiating from problem area forwards over both shoulders. she was re scaned after mesotherapy (not actually seen them yet) and have been told all of theses areas have reduced as a result. i dont think we take compensatery pain in to consideration enough when it comes to horses.

 

[Orangehorse]

I think it is in Sahra Wyche's book on backs that sore feet can cause bad backs and visa versa! So finding out the root cause is always the problem.

 

[AmyMay]

Yes, back pain can often be a manifestation of forelimb lameness.

As for popping shoes on - I'd be asking for x-rays of all four feet before that happens.

 

[nikkirip]

Hi nocturnal. I'm not at all keen about the shoes as I have an extremely good Farrier and he always said he would tell me if the pony needed shoes and isn't keen on putting them on. The vet is also very good but perhaps a little old fashioned.

Albus currently for a out 7hours a day in a bare paddock with mask in. Gets soaked hay and us fed topspec comprehensive, alfa a, garlic and glucoasimine with msm. He's lost a load if weight through careful diet since Nov even though he has barely been worked. He's been tested for insulin resistence which wad negative so technically shouldn't be laminitis.

Only thing I can do at the mo is go with vet. But its frustrating as I'm not convinced.

 

[muff747]

currently for a out 7hours a day in a bare paddock with mask in. Gets soaked hay and us fed topspec comprehensive, alfa a, garlic and glucoasimine with msm. He's lost a load if weight through careful diet since Nov even though he has barely been worked. He's been tested for insulin resistence which wad negative so technically shouldn't be laminitis.

I puzzled for about two years as to why my gelding had LGL even tho he wasn't getting any grass. Some people were saying theirs couldn't tolerate any alfalfa so I tried cutting that out of his diet and there is a definite improvement. He will never be fully comfortable due to other issues but I now feed him Ready Fibre Mash with MSM and Meta Balance. So you could try changing his feed to something similar like Fast Fibre and I'm not sure if TS isn't a suspect feed too.
If that doesn't make any difference, it has been known for under 10 y.o's to be diagnosed with Cushings, (even with no other signs/symptoms) so I would be inclined to get an ACTH test, just to be sure.

 

[dilbert]

My cob has EPSM so growth in grass = often sore feet and very tight and sore back and hind muscles. We seem to have issues this time of year and intermittently all year, I'm still trying to find the best way to manage him.

Have your vets done blood tests for metabolic issues such as insulin resistance and discusses things like epsm?

Good luck I hope you get to the bottom of it, I would be a bit worried that shoeing without a clear diagnosis may mask any issues and cause other problems. What is your horse fed / how do you manage him?

 

[hairycob]

If you are trying to lose weight I would swap the Top Spec & Alfa A for Ready fibre mash/fast fibre with a powder vit & mineral supplement.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I would be more interested on finding out why her feet are sore, and fixing it, than masking the issue with shoes. Sore feet are a symptom of another problem, and shouldn't - imho - be ignored.

^^^^^That was my thinking too, a healthy pony does not need shoes to be sound.

 

[soloequestrian]

Why not look at using boots and pads instead of shoes? You would get to see immediately if there was an improvement, and you can just take them off if you want to, unlike shoes! Have a look at the EasyCare website.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Vet has suggested concussion because he is overweight and carries me too. I don't know how we'll find out why feet are sore other than xray, scan etc. It's just the start of what may be a long process to finding out what is wring with him. I just don't understand it cos he's never looked footsore. Poor boy.

Crikey, I think you wasted your money on physio, you need someone to tell you you are too heavy for him and he is unfit and fat!!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but honestly!!!

 

[nikkirip]

Thanks all some really interesting stuff.

EPSM what's that? Has had ir test which was negative but apparently you can get a false meg so going to re test. He did have raised liver enzymes in October, a tape worm infestation we thought (tested positive for it) but these were down again at end if Feb. However he was lame again in Feb and it looked a lot like tying up to me. Had him tested for this too which showed raised AST but not raised CK. Apparently would expect both to be raised if was tying up?

Haven't tested for cushings yet but going to ask vet to do this with next ir test.

If it was EPSM what would blood work look like. His symptoms are as you describe.

 

[nikkirip]

Orange horse that does sound interesting. I'll go have a read. The hard part is going to be to find out the primary cause.

There's defo a back/pelvis issue I'm sure. Particularly as he threw me off at end of feb. Went down a hill and leant back and then he just exploded.

 

[dilbert]

http://www.draftresource.com/EPSM/Draft_EPSM_Report.html

Have a look here there's lots of stuff if you have a wee google , Beth valentine and dr Kellon are names t search for. There's also a Facebook group and a yahoo group.

 

[nikkirip]

Miss L Toe, unless I have misread your last post, then I apologise now, but I am not thick in any way.

1. I don't need anyone to tell me my pony is over his ideal weight. I can see perfectly for myself.
2. I did not say I was too heavy for him. I am not. He carries me perfectly well. I am not fat, I am not tall.
3. I don't need anyone to tell me he is unfit. He hasn't been worked properly since the beginning of January because if lameness. Ofcourse he is unfit.

I do need people to give me some ideas if what I can ask my vet to check for.

I do need to find out what's wrong with him so I can make him better and do for him everything he needs.

 

[nikkirip]

Brilliant thanks dilbert.

 

[Rocky01]

Hi, your horse sounds scarily similar to one of mine a couple of years ago. Wouldn't keep condition, though I knew he could be a good doer (had owned him since he was one and he was then four). He also had Sore muscles and especially back. Hooves weren't in the best shape and his bloods were odd but going up and down like yoyo's. As a last resort we cut out soya and alfalfa and immediately he blossomed. Topspec has both in it (especially high soya level) and alfa a is obviously alfalfa. We tried to introduce soya and he started to go downhill fast so is now on Gwf equilibria 500 (the only balancer I could find without either in it and it's cheaper than topspec) and fibregest ( tiny amount) and some plain straw mollassed chaff. He is doing amazingly. I would say his problems we an intolerance to soya rather than alfalfa but won't be testing that theory since what we're doing now is working so well.
Hope this helps. C

 

[popularfurball]

... Have you treated thrush? I would be starting on a mega thrush routine probably as a fairly simple but likely culprit of footyness

 

[nikkirip]

Hi popularfurball. That's interesting. He did have thrush two weeks ago. The horse next door had rubber mats and all the urine wad coming into my stable. I've changed stables and treated with hydrogen peroxide and looked like it cleared up nicely. It was in all four feet. Any other ways to treat. I have reassure recently that soaking twenty minutes a day in a solution is good.

 

[nikkirip]

*read

 

[cheekyvimto]

How utterly bizarre, then, as shoeing will only increase concussion.

not neccessarily with shoes on you can alter the angle of the HPA which can alow for more absorbtion throught the pastern and fetlock joints. so the downward pressure isnt shooting straight down the leg to the ground