Sorry, the saga of the saddle woes continues. Any thoughts on this saddle?

charlimouse

charlimouse

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Following on from these threads

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=543544

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=543847

Harry has not been going well. He is resistant in his work, and bucked then bolted yesterday leaving me on the floor :eek:. He is clearly telling me as eloquently as possible that something somewhere really hurts, and I suspect the saddle may be a strong contributing factor. In the last 2 weeks he has had the physio, dentist and saddle fitter. So I am going to try some thermal imaging and see if we can get to the bottom of his problems. Here are some more pictures. Any thoughts?

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What do you reckon? I know it is hard to tell from pictures. I am not going to ride him until we get him sorted. I'll lunge and longrein him to help build up is muscle etc.
 
I think it looks too narrow so it's high at the front. It also looks like it's sitting to the right from behind but the pic isn't the best so I may be wrong.

Eta just read the above and I'm having the same dilemma with my mare at the mo, she ditched me in spectacular style 2 weeks after her saddle was reflocked. I'm certain the saddle was wrong but my husband feels that if every time she's a bit uncomfy she half kills me she may not be the ideal horse. I can certainly see his point but I don't like them to work in pain so I'm torn
 
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Countrychic said:
I think it looks too narrow so it's high at the front. It also looks like it's sitting to the right from behind but the pic isn't the best so I may be wrong.

Eta just read the above and I'm having the same dilemma with my mare at the mo, she ditched me in spectacular style 2 weeks after her saddle was reflocked. I'm certain the saddle was wrong but my husband feels that if every time she's a bit uncomfy she half kills me she may not be the ideal horse. I can certainly see his point but I don't like them to work in pain so I'm torn
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Cheers. I am in a similar position. Saddler thinks it is too wide and wants to narrow the tree (he reflocked it last week). Physio says it is too narrow. All I know is I have an uncomfortable horse :(.
 
It just doesn't look right - I think you are right to be concerned... My first instinct is it looks too narrow as its very 'perched', would be interested to see it girthed and with weight on it?
 
Photos taken from the front need to show more than just clearance - can you girth the saddle firmly, the only basis on which you can really judge, and take photos from each side, with him stood nice and square, showing the points and the ribcage to at least half way down. Clearance doesn't tell you much on it's own (see my other recent ranty posts on clearance versus width :D)

You could also do with putting it about 2 inches further back, until then it's really hard to say much at all.
 
Not claiming to know huge amounts about saddle fitting but he does look quite a difficult shape to fit. He has withers but looks on the pics to also be croup high so I would imagine that the typical method of balancing high withers with additional depth in the back panels will exacerbate your issues. I think the key is going to be the shape of the tree to maintain even pressure throughout the length of the saddle therefore avoiding any pressure spots.

May be completely off the mark and its hard to tell from pics but there's my two penneth's worth :D
 
I actually think it looks a little wide! When saddles are too wide you get pressure spots on the bottom edge of the panels which the physio should pick up on and may be why she thinks its too narrow. When girthed up how does it feel if you run your hand down the front?
 
It's slightly too far forward where it is placed now, put it a little further back behind the shoulder
 
Would highly recommend trying the ideal impala Pro, they are a fantastic fit on many different types, one of mine sounds very similar to your boy being unevn and very tricky to fit but they pro is great on him!! sorry if you have already tried one of these havent read all the others bits :)
 
very similar shape to mine, croup high, with a wither and loop sided and also a sprung rib cage. after god knows how many fittings etc tried treeless. have not looked back since and i am not a bunny hugger.

now have a horse which is even and the back has built up.

i am not saying treeless for you but how about one of the more flexible trees to accommodate his unique physic?
 
I don't think it looks right at all tbh. It looks like it is sitting to the right? It also just doesnt look as though its sitting on him well and it's too far forwards.
He looks like he is quite croup high. I wonder if this saddle is slipping forwards and pinching his shoulder?
I don't think it suits him. If I was you i'd ebay it asap and buy him something else. Even one of those thorowgoods with the changeable gullets might be lighter and more comfortable for him.
 
Secone what CParker said - ideal impala pro is fab on lots of horses! My horse is ridiculously hard to fit but the pro fits him like a glove
 
is that him standing level? how old his he? He's very croup high and a pronounced slope to his saddle fitting area!

I would have him checked out for kissing spines first as he has a classic back shape for it. His stance behind also suggests he has a sore back: very hunched and standing under himself (may just the photo's though).

Saddle fitting will be hard for him. He's fairly wide but highwithers and he's also going to shunt any saddle right forwards onto his shoulders.

I wouldn't be happy with that saddle at all. It's too far forwards but looks like that's where it wants to sit naturally. It needs to move back a good few inches (and stay there!). That will alter the balance (it's too high at the front at the moment).

Can't tell much from width from those photos. Although width contributes to the balance, it's not the be all and end all. Correct width saddles can be too high at the front (or too low) depending on how deep the gussets at the back are, and how deep the front panels are.
 
millitiger said:
It looks a bit too far forward and it sitting on his shoulder.

Have you had his back x-rayed before?
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Nope, but will look into it if the thermal imaging sheds no light, or if we are still having problems further down the line.

CParker said:
Would highly recommend trying the ideal impala Pro, they are a fantastic fit on many different types, one of mine sounds very similar to your boy being unevn and very tricky to fit but they pro is great on him!! sorry if you have already tried one of these havent read all the others bits :)
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The saddle is an Ideal Impala. Not the pro version though.

Kallibear said:
is that him standing level? how old his he? He's very croup high and a pronounced slope to his saddle fitting area!
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Yep, completely flat concrete. He is a 7yo TB ex racer. He is a very tricky shape to fit. That is the one thing we can all agree on :rolleyes:!

Thanks again everybody for all your imput so far. Today I got some better pictures. Looing at where the saddle sits it does look too far forwards, but that is where it sits naturally. Where ever I out it, as soon as he moves it slips back into that spot.

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Hope those are better :o.
 
Sorry, even with the better photos I just don't think the saddle is a good fit for him and perhaps won't be, even with tweaking/re-flocking.

It just looks the wrong shape for him.

I have had nightmares with my Ideal Impala on both horses and now realise that it puts me in totally the wrong position- all of the weight in the back of the saddle and not going supporting me/distributing weight evenly at all.

Obviously different horses suit different saddles etc but Vinnie is quite similar to your boy and his girth line is so far forward it is almost between his front legs- he also has a huge long wither but really well sprung ribs.
The Ideal was totally the wrong shape for him, even when it 'fitted' well and it was a revolution to ride him in the different saddle which is now on order.

If he were mine, I would also be x-raying before thermal imaging as then you can confidently rule out spine issues/kissing spines and know that you are dealing with muscle/saddle related issues.
 
No need to apolgise Millitiger. I agree it isn't right. Pity my saddle fitter doesn't! The people I am using for the thermal imaging send all the info collected to your own vet, for them to then diagnose/investigate further. So vet will be looking at his back, and we can discuss thoughs about kissing spine etc then, and go from there.

Vetwrap - that pad looks interesting, although I would worry about the thickness altering the fit of your saddle, so it might not be very accurate. Anybody have more info/used one before?
 
Have you tried him in a racing plate or racing half saddle? I ask because they're very soft light things and weigh hardly anything, plus they fit anything because they don't have the same tree structure. It sounds to me like you're trying very hard to get him right and he sounds like a decent sort. If it is purely saddle issues, then I'd see how he is in a racing saddle - they use them on the weird shaped 2 year old TBs in Newmarket and I've seen quite sore horses go well in them until they built a bit more muscle.
 
As an aside, most of the studies I have seen into the prevalence of KS seem to show that really rather a lot of horses have them if you go looking for them (infact some seem to imply that most horses in athletic work have them :confused: ).
 
charlimouse said:
The saddle is an Ideal Impala. Not the pro version though.

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We too have impala's the pro is rather different being monoflap more close contact definitely worth a try i would say.. Could you try a different saddle fitter if this one is getting the right results??
 
If the Impala pro is on the same tree as the regular impala it will probably have the same fit issues.

When the saddle is on the horse, girthed up and not girthed up, feel with your hand further back than the tree points. If the fit gets tighter as your hand goes back (ie at the base of the withers) then your saddle's tree may not be suitable for your horse.

Some saddles have open heads for shoulder freedom and then get narrower in the twist. If your horse is wide at the base of his withers then such saddles will not suit him.

I would recommend giving Patrick Keane a call. He sells a jump saddle that may suit. http://www.patricksaddlery.com/contact.php

I am not a saddler, just obsessive about saddle fit!
 
Bearskin said:
I would recommend giving Patrick Keane a call. He sells a jump saddle that may suit. http://www.patricksaddlery.com/contact.php
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Would second that - I have a beautiful jump saddle by him that I happened upon at Rideaway in the second hand section (don't tell them, but judging by what I paid for it I don't think they knew what they'd got!). It is this one: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?....10150571901837224.359657.316397082223&type=3

It's one of those saddles that fits a multitude of horses but I am gutted as my lad has changed shape/got wider so it may need to go :( Saddler coming next month to confirm. I'll be gutted beyond belief if it can't be re-flocked or adjusted to fit.
 
With a horse of that shape I think you will need a saddle with deep well flocked panels at the back to give the lift that you need for the saddle to be balanced - you will find it very hard for any saddle to sit level otherwise due to the high wither. With deep panels you can also afford to keep the width at the front rather than fitting the saddle snugly to the narrow wither thereby preventing any filling out of that area - narrow is not the way to go and your horse will not thank you for allowing anyone to convince you otherwise!! That saddle is not balanced on your horse and I don't think any amount of adjustment could make it the 'perfect' saddle for your horse.
 
It is difficult to tell your problem from the photos. The saddle needs to be a good few inches further back and girthed up to be able to judge properly. You look like you have a similar problem to me with my own youngster in that your horse is croup high which will have a tendency both to tip you forward and to push the weight from the saddle down into your horses shoulders. This is exactly the problem I am having at the moment and I am not riding either while I try to get a saddle to fit. Keep working with both your saddler and your physio, it may be worth part-exing your existing saddle in for a different style / make if you can't adjust this one well enough to fit. All of the different makes are subtly different and are better suited to different shape of horses. When you find the right one you will hopefully feel the difference with the horse's way of going. (this is what I keep telling myself and what I am working towards with my own mare;))
 
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