SOS : How to deal with a horse that bucks

[Cor]

Hi there, I have recently bought a new horse from a different climate, I have had it for three months now, and unfortunately I had to find it the hard way that he has some behavioral issues, he threw me off deliberately by bucking and then cantering wildly in the arena. He has done this several times now, at first I thought it was due to the adaptation process, having to get used to a far different climate, new environment, new way of life (he used to be stabled all the time, now he is in a big paddock which he shares with only one mare), change in diet etc. But he seems quite settled in, so then I blamed the saddle, which I did change and the new saddle fits perfectly. He is quite spooky and panics quite easily, but unfortunately in the last incident there was nothing around that could have spooked him. He was going really nicely for 55 min and then during the last 5 mins he did this. I should mention that he had been ridden for 1 hour before this (with a small break in between) and may have been fed up, but is this a reason to throw the rider off? I really don't know if he had any similar issues at his previous stable, but I really don't know if I should keep him or not. He is a really good dressage horse, 7-8 years old, KWPN. I am not sure whether I will be able to control this behavior as it takes only a split second before he explodes, and I really don't think that I am such an experienced rider that I can cope with this every time. Can I please have your advice on this? Can this behavior be changed? Is there anything else that could trouble him that I may ignore? Should I make an effort in keeping him before selling him? And lastly, can you please suggest the most effective ways in controlling this bucks and wild canters? Your help would be much appreciated.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Some of these horses have only ever been ridden by pro's so I think you should get someone who competes and who is willing to help you, whether to prep for sale or for you to ride, no one can really judge until they have had a chance to work with a horse like this, he is probably a bit much for a novice. In the meantime feed a calmer and keep to regular work routine, including lunging, if you are experienced at this.
I suspect he is not as spooky as he makes out, he is just taking the pixel, if you are falling off every time he takes off, he will have to go!!!!!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Advertise him as a pro ride and see if other people have the same problem, but make sure you don't get amateurs trying him out.

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

I personally would get someone to look at his back as you have had the saddle checked. Sounds like a reaction to some sort of pain. My WB has his back and body manipulated every 3 to 6 months as regular maintenance ad is v sensitive. He reacts to saddle pinch by bucking in canter and tensing shoulders. I have to check his saddle every couple of weeks as his shape is always fluctuating.
I would also look at diet and a calmer. Mine goes mental if he gets to much starch...
I red the other day that having your outer leg too far back in canter can also cause bucking.

 

[ruth83]

The spookiness often comes with these horses as they are frequently only ridden indoors and sometimes in draw reins - therefore they come over here and realise there is more to life than a surface and kick boards! (NOTE I am not saying this is the case with all foreign yards)

It might be worth having his back double checked as it's not uncommon for them to tweak something when they travel for as long as they do when coming over from the continent. Then you will know for certain that he has no reason to object.

I agree with asking a pro to ride him (in an ideal world, one who has experience with horses who come from the continent) and see if they have the same issues. If so they may be able to advise you of the best next step. If not then your best step would be getting some professional help. Lessons to help you deal with what he throws at you.
Does he get put away if he does this? Or do you get back on/lunge him? Are you keeping his mind entertained enough when you are riding him? I obviously don't know your standard but if the horse is used to, for example, working at advanced medium level and you are looking at novice/elementary tests is he looking for things to do to entertain himself?

 

[Cor]

Many thanks for your replies.
Yes, he is on a calmer which apparently does not work. He eats hay three times a day and then feed twice daily, which consists of sugar beet, chaff and nuts.
He is actually very spooky, even while in his paddock, if he hears or sees something he will run straight to his stable, and I have actually seen him (without a rider on) bucking while in his paddock, when there was an irritating fly on his belly.
Anyway, I think I will have his back checked.
I have ridden a couple of horses that buck, but not with such intensity.The other horse I have been riding does not know the meaning of bucking, so I can't say I know how to control this type of bucks, and perhaps not willing to find out.
He has been doing this to another rider with decades of experience who gets to ride him 3-4 times a week, and he controls him 100%, but he does buck quite aggressively as well.
As a 1-m trial, he will get ridden by this rider only, and we will see if this behavior still persists, if in the end he stops doing that, I may consider to keep him, but who guarantees that once I get on him, as a weaker rider, he will not start doing it again?

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

I had to try several calmers with mine to find one that worked. Relax me works well for us. As someone said earlier re being indoors and ridden in draw reins was spot on, my WB was kept like this in Holland. Being out for 8+ hours a day in a field blew his mind. Losing draw reins as I've never used them was like removing his stabilisers. Luckily I has a great trainer and sent horse away for schooling to him to work through the issues. He's also like yours is massively sensitive to insects.
If he's doing persistantly with another person still points to possibly pain issues somewhere. It depends whether u want to get to the bottom of the issues. When mine came back from schooling he did revert back a little bit but my trainer helped us through that stage. Now he's like a different horse. Good luck.

 

[Tammytoo]

First thing I would suggest, as have others, is get his back checked out by an experienced equine vet.

If he runs to his stable when spooked outside he is obviously having trouble coping with the big outdoors so is not as settled as you might think. Being schooled for 2 hours, even with a break, is pretty intense for any horse. I was told that 20 minutes schooling is the equivalent of an hour's hack, so it's probably not surprising that he objected.

If he is going well when you are schoolking, it would be better to stop on a good note a bit earlier and reward him, than to rigidly stick to a set time and risk making him sour.

 

[hannahmurphy]

Many thanks for your replies.
Yes, he is on a calmer which apparently does not work. He eats hay three times a day and then feed twice daily, which consists of sugar beet, chaff and nuts.

I would recommend changing feed to unmollassed sugar beet & chaff! He might be sensitive to the sugar which will just exacerbate the problems you're having. But ditto everyone's comments re getting back checked, if still none the wiser then have someone professional ride him. I would even be inclined to turn him away for a bit to settle down!

 

[Echo Bravo]

Sounds like he's having panic attacks and 2 hours is too much, so maybe neck and back are aching.

 

[dressagelove]

My horse was similar to this when I first got him. To me, it felt like a mixture of panic at first, and he would just take off bucking. After he got me off a few times, he realised it worked and started using it to be naughty.
I bonded with him, loads of groundwork / lunging / join up etc and got him on a calmer. But Im afraid the only thing which worked eventually with mine is I learnt to hang on. He did some serious rodeoing, rearing and bucking and I finally got the hang of sticking on. Since I managed not to fall off a few times, he learnt it no longer worked and he hasnt tried it since (2 years).
I know this is isnt overly helpful advice, but if you learn to stick on, it might work (if his back / saddleis okay of course). Plus thinkhow much better a rider you will be!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'd change his diet. If his skin is so sensitive that he bucks because of fly irritation, that is abnormal. I'd feed him nothing but fibre, take the nuts and chaff out of his diet and be careful about alfalfa. In fact as some horses can't cope with sugarbeet, I'd get rid of that as well, particularly if it's molassed.
I had a mare who could work very well until she 'flipped' and then she would buck massively. I got to be able to recognise the subtle changes so that I could finish a session before she got to that point but it is obviously too soon for you to be able to do that. Her problems were caused by diet.

I, too, would have his back checked. Again, I had a mare with a back problem who just got spookier and spookier until eventually she started bucking. That was her reaction to noise, which seemed to give her a headache because of pain from her back.

 

[Cor]

My horse was similar to this when I first got him. To me, it felt like a mixture of panic at first, and he would just take off bucking. After he got me off a few times, he realised it worked and started using it to be naughty.
I bonded with him, loads of groundwork / lunging / join up etc and got him on a calmer. But Im afraid the only thing which worked eventually with mine is I learnt to hang on. He did some serious rodeoing, rearing and bucking and I finally got the hang of sticking on. Since I managed not to fall off a few times, he learnt it no longer worked and he hasnt tried it since (2 years).
I know this is isnt overly helpful advice, but if you learn to stick on, it might work (if his back / saddleis okay of course). Plus thinkhow much better a rider you will be!

Thanks a lot for your reply, to be honest this is a really good horse, and I really don't want to let go that easily. I could be willing to give it a try, and it would be great if I were able to control this kind of behavior, how do you manage to stay on? We are talking about serious bucking here and not minor bucks. What kind of groundwork besides lunging would you suggest?

 

[scarymare]

Two hours schooling (even with a break) is ridiculous.

I echo the other poster that when I had one of these the only way the bucking stopped was when I learned how to sit it (and even then it would come back when (for example) first clipped, first frost, other horses bucking etc. I just ignored it in the end but when I did come on to sell him, he bucked the new owner straight off and broke her leg in 3 places so i think I would be trying a bit harder to stop it now.

Not helpful I know but realistic I think

 

[scarymare]

Thanks a lot for your reply, to be honest this is a really good horse, and I really don't want to let go that easily. I could be willing to give it a try, and it would be great if I were able to control this kind of behavior, how do you manage to stay on? We are talking about serious bucking here and not minor bucks. What kind of groundwork besides lunging would you suggest?

You get a really good jumping saddle with huge blocks and a neck strap. Grab onto the strap, lean back and huge leg on. Do not try to pull up head and stop the horse as this can make it worse. A positive correction (although really counter-intuitive) is what's required.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

2 hours in the school is too much for all but the fittest and cleverest of horses! Escapado was ridden several times a day because he could take it. I think yours sounds like he needs 1 hour max!

My Welsh D bucks, it has been so high his tail has hit me in the face! you have to keep them guessing and do unstructured work; serpentines, circles- when he goes to buck plant your hand on your knee and spin him round and trot him on! transitions, transitions, transitions and keep him guessing! don't go endlessly round and round the school, mix up shoulder fore with leg yeilding with travers and piroet (sp?) satelite circles are good for keeping them guessing and all of this will keep him infront of your leg.

You need to sit up and send him forwards to be in front of your leg (different to just going faster) and keep him balanced, until he is strong enough to propell himself forwards himself and stay balanced you need to keep him occupied with transistions and random movements!

 

[ihatework]

It's really difficult to advise based on info at present.

Are you based in the UK, if so where? It might be that someone could recommend an experienced pair of eyes to help assess you and the horse.

How experienced are you? Have you competed much and to what sort of level?

What level has this horse competed to and by whom? Has he come from a professional stables?

What are your hopes/aims for him with you riding?

Continental dressage horses can have quite a different upbringing and stable/work routine to us in the UK. Consequently some find it quite difficult to adapt, they show a fair bit of insecurity when taken out of the stable-school-stable-competition-stable routine. This can manifest itself in a variety of behaviours, some of which are very athletic given the high quality breeding of these animals.

First off I think a sensible thing to do would be to cut down the feed. Feed a non-molassed version of things in small quantity and adlib hay.

Secondly I'd consider having him doing a little less work, don't get him too fit. 2 hours is a lot of schooling work and it could just be that he was tired/tetchy/confused. Go for quality over quantity - if he is really good for 40 minutes, pat him and bring him back in. If he enjoys hacking & jumping make sure you do a bit just for variety.

I'd get a good vet to give him the once over, check for any back pain or lamess etc.

In terms of actually sitting out the bucks it sort of depends on how he actually bucks. Definitely worth investing in some sticky breeches - horse health wessex also do a sticky pad that goes on the saddle seat - plus a balance strap to hang on to as required!

 

[Cor]

Thanks for your replies. He is actually very eager to work, and he has been ridden in the past for two hours in the same day (but one early in the morning and one early afternoon) as another experienced rider gets to ride him 2-3 times a week. But this does not happen often, I was supposed to ride my other horse on that day but a nail got stuck in her frog and she had to take a couple of days off...
When I rode him for the second hour, there was no canter at all, and we tried to make it as interesting as possible by incorporating a lot of transitions, leg yielding, circles and serpentines, lots of stretching, rein back, shoulder in and travers, he did all of this so eagerly, that I am still trying to explain why he would buck all of a sudden with no reason.
Anyway, perhaps changing his diet is worth a try, should we only provide him with hay for a while and see how that goes? I will not ride him for a couple of weeks, only my instructor who is a very experienced rider gets to ride him, say not more that 4-5 times a week (which will also include hacks perhaps). I can lunge him using a chambon, can you please recommend any other ground work that we could try?
Also, what is your view on grass, he has access to grass, should we limit that too??
I should also mention that a couple of months ago when it was much warmer he would not buck....

Thanks a lot...

 

[Lollii]

I have heard of these:

http://www.stopthathorse.com/productDetail.php?ID=10

Never used one tho.

 

[dressagelove]

Thanks a lot for your reply, to be honest this is a really good horse, and I really don't want to let go that easily. I could be willing to give it a try, and it would be great if I were able to control this kind of behavior, how do you manage to stay on? We are talking about serious bucking here and not minor bucks. What kind of groundwork besides lunging would you suggest?

Short stirrups, neck strap as suggested. Ground work, things like join up, long reining and lungeing. Leading out in hand etc. Spend loads of time grooming and bonding with him, etc. Once he learns to trust you even more, then he might stop trying to eject you! Plus plenty of other good suggestions on here