Spanish Nightmare

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Daytona

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Be warned this is long....

My friend owns a 17.2hh Spanish mare (massive yes I know)

She has had her since 2 years old, she backed her herself and to be honest just kinda pottered about on her. Doing a bit of intro dressage etc, the horse has never cantered in the school.

It's now 9 years old and a nightmare, when you ride it its like a ball ready to explode, never relaxes, does this mental choppy high stepping trot, if you try to canter it , it won't bend and constantly changes leg dramatically which actually jars the riders back. She is rude and thinks nothing of barging you out the way, and with her size it's almost dangerous. Everything you try to do with her is a drama, it won't load, it won't get shoes on.

So she got vet out, checked for ulcers, then thought maybe KS, did X-rays, all clear, checked her ovaries all fine.

Personally a few of us think its behavioural issues but to be sure the vet suggested it be travelled 100 miles to Glasgow Uni vets and gets some special scan which shows up pain in any joint etc just as a last resort so she agreed, got the horse picked up by trabsporter he got barely 10 miles down road and brought horse back saying it was freaking out so that but the stops to that.

We are trying to talk her into letting gillies try to take it this time but the animal is such a stress head it's unreal.

So say she does manage to get it down to vets and it comes back as clear and there no pain issue, what can she next do. Our pro dressage rider even is kinda unsure what the hell to so with this horse she is nuts. And her size makes it even worse.

This is said horse

http://m1192.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/ludoctro/photo-20.jpg.html?o=0


I feel so sorry for my friend as she adores this horse, the horse is very clever, I just wonder if my mate has been too soft and the horse now just decides what it's doing and that's that. But can you change it now at its age .?? It really has no manners at all. The vet even got on it to ride it, and got off and was just like, god knows..?? It's just so tense , curls right up in the neck and almost marches , slamming its feet down.

Any Spanish buffs out there with a clue what she can do..???
 
I'm guessing she's an incredibly intelligent horse so yes perhaps has learnt what she can get away with, but I also think pain is the underlying cause.
it might be something as simple as just being tense and needing a good massage. I'd get a good physio out to look at her
 
If it is simply a behavioural issue then yes you can change it at this age. We had a 9 year old luso in for schooling who had been spoilt rotten, we simply laid down the boundaries on day one and she didn't question it
 
Its the same with any breed....
We had a 17hh irish draft that no one could get near as he was aggressive.
6 months on he was riding lovely and loves nothing more than cuddles and is the biggest baby.
I suggest your friend send him to a professional who specialises in troubled horses
 
From what you describe it sounds to me as if your friend is slightly scared of her and hasn't managed to stop her bad behaviour or pushed her on with her schooling.

Does she have an instructor? Definitely not too late for her to start sorting things out.

I've a friend with a section D mare. She's had her since she was about 2 also. Bargy, rude stubborn beast who has been spoilt rotten and allowed to walk all over others. She's never been on a livery yard and tbh is rather novice with her handling. Mare is about 15 now and just a pain in the arse to handle!
 
Welcome to my world I have a spanish and trained spanish hes the same when first got him hed rear at me bolt buck bit like yours a ball waiting to explode in all the years iv owned horses this one scared me the most. He had been badly abused he tried to kill anybody who came close to him. Now hes near enough perfect we still have moments but boy did it take time being kind but firm and being one step ahead all the time is the answer IMO their not easy horses once they have lost trust in humans but my now is so loving you cant believe its the same horse
 
Done the bute trial the vet did that, had Back man look at her as I said hopefully this all singing and all dancing £1000 scan will identifie if there is a pain issues, but it's looking likey it's behavioural but pain needs to be ruled out.

The horse is not agressive rather more bolshy but in a stressy way, she is easily upset. The horse has not been abused she had it since young might even if just been a yearling I can't quite remember. So this is not a trust issue. Yes we have a very experienced rider who rides for a Olympic dressage rider so knows her stuff, she has rode it, cannot get it to go remotely nice what so ever if in fact it actually gets even more wound up.

It seems if you put any pressure on her schooling wise she has a meltdown now we not talking difficult dressage moves here just a basic circle of walk trot and canter.

The pro rider thinks maybe it needs to go back to the very basics of long reining etc like you would a youngster but even doing stuff like that it gets wound up and chucks it self about and the horse is pure massive built like a tank.
 
Please may I suggest speaking to someone from BAPSH.co.uk? There are a few people who specialise in Iberians with problems and can give some excellent advice.

Just stop trying lots of things that will stress her out even more. I would give her a break until you can get some help.
 
Good idea tally hohoho don't worry horse is being left for now till they can get scan done as have to be sure it's not pain, I'm speaking about what's been tried over past 6 months and if no pain the way forward.

There is no experience Spanish people in our area as far as I am aware, I doubt very much she would sent this horse away, your would worry it was mistreated, honestly she adores this horse. What ever the solution is it needs to happy at home, I think she might end up just chucking it in a field as a pet if I'm honest.
 
I transported my completely feral horse on Sedalin, it was okayed by vets who couldn't even examine him as he was so wild, he travelled like a little lamb,and it doesn't make them wobbly, might be worth a go?
 
Yes she defo hopefully will give her Sedalia if Gilles agree to pick her up, too dangerous to put in trailer as she could tip it or smash her head through roof, she already fills a whole ifor510 with little room left due to her size .
 
I have no idea how to fix pain related, or behavioural problems for that matter - but I am currently fixing a 13yr old (Well, I started when he was 11) so it is possible :)
He wouldn't load, wouldn't have shoes, wouldn't jump unless following, wouldn't hack alone, or even at the front of the ride, hated saddle and bridle, kicked, bit, barged...he's not perfect and we're still a work in progress, but we're getting there!

So to try and give you a little hope, yes, older horses can be fixed! I hope your friend manages to find and fix the problems, she's a stunner!
 
Thanks Nah, yes she is a bonny horse and so clever, she has taught her some tricks, there impressive lol shame its not so easy when on her back.
 
I would endorse the suggestion of BAPSH. I am not experienced with Iberians but one thing that jumps out at all the posts for these horses was their very specific feed requirements. Too much sugar or starch seems to send them completely over the top. As you have tried virtually everything else I would review her feed completely with the aid of an experienced Iberian person. Nothing to lose by doing that..
 
there are a couple of people up there experienced with Iberians, and a couple more further south who'll travel. PM me is you want names. They can be very hot and very sensitive and need work and tactful riding/handling but personally don't find them complicated. feed wise treat them like native ponies-she's a beautiful horse!
 
She gets fed happy tummy and some balancer as a very good doer. That would be great if you could PM me details of the experienced people in this area and I can pass details over to her, I know she would be greatful .
 
going for the full body scan sounds like a good idea, it will show any areas of inflammation that need further investigation.

what is she being fed? does she get turned out in a field? for how long? alone/with others?

sometimes stressy horses need a complete fresh start to adjust their frame of mind so going to someone who has been checked out and recommended by others may allow her to chill out and start afresh.
 
Peteralfred I can't PM you as on my phone but I can pick PM's up so if you could email me details it would be greatly appreciated
 
Feed: dengie happy tummy and a little balancer.

Up untill a few months ago she was turned out 24/7 at a small farm type yard from being a baby

Resently moved to a small livery yard and put on full livery , out from 8 am to 4 pm so very much in a routine

No change what so ever in the way she behaves, from being out 24/7 to being stabled and in a routine. We thought she would freak at being stabled but she actually settled into it fine.
 
The only person I know of is Peter Maddison-Greenwell for problem spanish horses - he deals with them alot. I know they are often very highly strung horses, a friend of mine has one which was spanish broke so knew how to do piaffe before walk! - it takes an hour of trotting round in piaffe and all his other tricks he throws in the pot with a rider on board just to get him in an outline and do a normal trot, and get him to relax and not on the verge of exploding, and they've had him well over a year!! But I think ruling out a pain issue first is sensible then go down the re-schooling route with someone who knows the breed and will lay down the rules as it does sound like she knows she can get away with things and take the piss!
 
Imo whilst its worth checking pain, feed etc out it sounds more like a stereotypical 'my way or the highway' mare. It may be more complex in that she's intelligent & sensitive, but not unfixable. Ime most mares like to do things their way, rather than how they are told. And I'd guess that its worse because she's green, but has years of experience of digging her heels in to get her own way. I don't mean the answer is finding someone who can make the mare submit. Completely the opposite, its finding someone who can find the key to getting the mare to think desirable behavior is her own idea & choice. And the fact she was worse with the more experienced rider fits in. Because if she's got it in her head that everyone is a battle, the more effort the rider or handler puts in, the more she puts in. I'm not criticizing the dressage rider you've had on her, but some mares just don't like some peoples body language, & see them as a challenge to be conquered. That's not to say a pushover type person is better, not at all. More someone in the middle, who can get the mare thinking its her own idea to behave. And ime when a very determined mare starts putting that same 100% into behaving well, instead of badly, they are truly amazing.
 
My spanish x rescue filly was a nightmare very intelligent and she liked to use her cleverness for evil exceedingly sensitve horse and really needed handling in the right manner, NH type methods helped alot kind and patient handling no point getting croos or agressive with her as she just got defensive i found a lovely trainer in the end she thrived on work she was getting bored and frustrated with me as i dont ride much due to a problem with my leg after much trial and error her groundwork came on beutifully and she became much more manageable but she will always be a unpredictable lively horse she sclever and she needs to be challenged and to keep her brain occupied. My dressage rider loved her as she was never a straight forward ride and he had to always be challenging her and vice versa she challeneged him but she seeamed to love it very cheeky fun little horse but a little terror but i loved her dearly she could be so affectionate when she was in the mood. definetly if pain is ruled out find the right trainer for her there'll eb somebody and they will just click i did alot with my girl and she came on leaps and bounds but as i would never be able to ride much due to ym physicall disabilities i found her a home where she would eb more challeneged and she is thriving now
 
Another thought, try sending a pm to cortez, she/he seems to know their stuff about iberians, & might be able to point you towards a local trainer who could help.
 
Why are you asking for advice on here when you say this on another thread?

Ha ha no way, I take it all with a pinch of salt, just post for amusement purposes and for something to do. I'm surrounded by knowledgable people in real life, who know me and know my horse, that's who I'd take advice from not any old numpteys off the Internet. I do enjoy reading some threads and have learnt stuff but no way would I follow advice for my horse from strangers when I have more than enough professionals around me I can seek advice from.
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