Spasmodic colic update - ANOTHER one! Ulcers???

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Gemsie

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Hi Everyone,

Ok - regarding the old chap who has been colicy for over a week....

Last night he was again cow kicking although in himself he was fine - whinnying when I went to bring him in, munching his lovely steamed hay (thanks for all the tips yesterday on that subject) whinnying before his (tiny and vet recommended) feed etc so to ease the kicking I gave him so finadine - under vets advice.

I have decided that I am gonna nip down to the clinic today to get a week supply of Gastroguard - I know its horrifically expensive - but I think its worth a shot.

I have found a website that sells it for £160 for a week supply which is considerably cheaper than ordering through my vet (with a perscription from my vet) so if after a few days it seems to be helping the old fella I will order from there (vet has already confirmed they will do a prescription for me).

I did a ton of research on the web last night and most people seem to suggest that within a week I will see a difference if its helping him.

I think its worth a go, as I am also aware that if he does have ulcers - the bute will simpy be aggravating them (until the pain relied kicks in).

I cant just keep ramming the old boy full of bute - so am gonna try this and see what happens.

This morning he was quite happy - and I didnt see him kick at all whilst watching him like a hawk for over an hour - so have risked not giving him bute (with the above theory of it aggrivating ulcers in mind)

I am going to take a half day from work and whizz down to the clinic to get the gastroguard - then head to the yard to see how he is and give him his first dose!

I feel a bit more postitive today, and think that this is worth a try.

Thanks again for all the support and advice I have received on here - it has been a massive help to me,

I will keep you posted with how we get on (its a good job I like beans on toast because I am going to be skint.com after this!)

Many thanks

Gem
 
Just a thought - I know you have the ulcers problem so the bute is aggravating. Have you thought of boswellia? It's a natural bute substitute that is much easier on the stomach than either bute or Devils Claw.

Also, is he drinking enough? My lad used to get colic going into winter because he wouldn't drink .

Blimey that gastroguard is expensive isn't it?
 
Hi ChicoMio, I have not heard of boswellia - but will do a google now!

He is deffo drinking plenty of water, and weeing as normal so I am happy to rule that out.

Yes the gastroguard is expensive, but over the years he has been a good doer and pretty cheap to keep - so I feel I owe it to him to try it - he has been my best buddy for 20 years so he is worth it!

Also thaks wasjosiejo - I think he is pretty lucky to have me, but I am really lucky to have him too - he is my baby (he would be so mortified if he could hear me say that - he is of course a super tough, butch, handsome, masculine, superstud - not my baby!)

Thanks

Gem
 
Hi Gem, glad to hear he is happy this morning and you are feeling more positive.

Good luck with the Gastroguard, i ve never used it but if i was in your position i would also give it a go....will keep fingers crossed for your both.

I m off to exercise my girl now, hope you have a less stressful day today and the old boy stays comfortable and happy........let us know how he goes over the weekend
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Have you had him scoped to see if it is ulcers? Because if it is not, then the gastrogard is a VERY expensive waste of time!! It is not terribly expensive to get them scoped, and if he does have ulcers, it has been proven that 1/4 of a tube of GG a day is as effective as a full syringe on low grade ulceration (eg G1 or 2). So my horse (who is incidentally about to be rescoped at 11am) is on 1/4 of a tube a day at the moment, which is far cheaper than when he had grade 4 ulcers and was on a whole tube/day.

Just think you are potentially wasting a lot of money for no real reason - both if he has not been scoped, and if the ulceration is low grade and he does need the GG.
 
Morning Gemsie.

A thought did occur to me....yes it happens!! I know you are very vigilant about your worming and am sure you wrote in a previous post that you were worming every 6 weeks. I may have got that totally wrong but if that is the case it would be worth letting your vet have your worming history as it may be that over use of the chemicals is adding to the discomfort/colics.

Can I also suggest that you try a course of Coligone, its much cheaper than Gastroguard and I have seen it work wonders. It really is good stuff.

http://www.hbradshaws.co.uk/

If you give Kate a call (H's Mum on here) Im sure she would be able to give you plenty of info and advice.
 
We had a sec d last year with spasmadic colic, went for lots of tests couldn't really find anything wrong, we turned him out for the year on grass and fingers crossed he is now well and put on all the weight that he lost. I'm a great believer in 'Doctor Green'!
 
Hi All,

I have not had him scoped - there are a few reasons for this - I would have to take him to the clinic -he is 28, a little bit arthritic a bad and stressy loader and traveller he has not left the yard for about 5 years! Also my horse transport is currently in Africa for a month....

I know that the Gastroguard is expensive - but I think its worth a try - it may or may not help.

I have him on coligone at the moment - it does seem to help a bit - but he still colics when on it...

Thanks again for all your thoughts,

Gem
 
as previous poster I was going to suggest boswellia as well. Coligone is good and my friend used to feed her horse Andrews antacid tablets, although I do appreciate that your horse has a potentially serious problem that these may not touch.
 
I did reply to your post a couple of days ago.

Please question your vet about Fynadine which can cause ulcers in horses and dogs and should never be given if ulcers are suspected, this could result in perforated ulcers and possible peritonitis which I know only too well from personal experience.

My equine vets say that Fynadine and bute should never be administered together.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi All,

I have not had him scoped - there are a few reasons for this - I would have to take him to the clinic -he is 28, a little bit arthritic a bad and stressy loader and traveller he has not left the yard for about 5 years! Also my horse transport is currently in Africa for a month....

I know that the Gastroguard is expensive - but I think its worth a try - it may or may not help.

I have him on coligone at the moment - it does seem to help a bit - but he still colics when on it...

Thanks again for all your thoughts,

Gem

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? My horse was scoped and ultrasounded in his stable today. Most vets have portable video endoscopes these days, and if they don't I'd be asking to be referred to someone who did.

The trouble is, without a proper diagnosis you are not going to be treating properly - my horse had two different types of ulcer, one of which needed antibiotics to clear them up, gastrogard alone did not work. Plus the vets can also give you things such as antepsin tablets which bind to the surface of the ulcer to promote healing. I don't really understand the desire to spend money on a treatment without a diagnosis I'm afraid - if it isn't ulcers then you need a vet to be looking for what the cause is.
 
Hi Llwyncwm and Spotted Cat,

Thanks for both coming back to me,

Unfortunately I did ask my vet if he can be scoped at home but was told they cant do this and it needed to be done at the clinic - they are an equine clinic with several vets. I have been with them for years and always found them to be excellent. I am also aware that a scope also may not reveal the cause of the problem therefore on this basis decided that I did not want to risk putting my boy through great deal of upset (he gets very stressed away from home - but at home is cool as a cucumber) without the guarantee of a full diagnosis.

I really really value all of your comments, and I did call my vets to check if I should give my boy bute or finadine - and they told me to give him finadine.

There is just so much info out there from different people, vets etc with lots of people having differing opinions on what to do it is so stressful and confusing at times.

I really am trying my best for my boy and have been greatly helped by responses to my posts, I hope everyone understands that I am just trying to do my best -but have to be guided by my vets - as they are much more expert than I am dealing with this situation.

Sorry if anyone thinks I am doing the wrong thing - I just want the best for my lad.

Gem
 
I dont think anyone can say you dont have your horses best interests at heart and have no doubt we have all been through a worrying situation like this, I know I have.

In the end all you can do is listen to others experience and ask your vets as many questions as you can.

I have to say though that Im surprised your vets wont scope on site, that is quite unusual. Are there other vets locally who would be able to do it for you without the stress of travelling?
 
I'm really surprised about that too Spaniel. Scoping really is not stressful for the horse - they get sedated (wears off almost as the scoping is finished with a vet who knows what they are doing!), the scope goes up the nose and into the stomach. Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOze01mxQUY (watch in HQ) to see my vet doing one. It takes all of about 20mins, if that. In fact today the vet started the scope going and then I 'played vet nurse' and inserted it the rest of the way!
 
Hi Everyone,

Ok - it deffo seems like not being able to scope at home it a bit out of the ordinary then? My vets are pretty well known (well in my area they are) so am a bit suprised they dont have the kit to do it!

I really didnt know this as have never had to have a horse scoped before so genuinely didnt realise,

If it can be done at home then I deffo want to do that - as the main reason I dont want to do it, is due to travelling him, because it upsets him so much - plus its prob a 2 hr journey each way from where he is kept - so the day would just be so much stress for him (seeing as he has been a field ornament for 5 years).

I am going to ring the vets now and ask about this again, and if they cant do it will try to find another equine vet locally who can do it - I will let you all know what happens!

Thanks again for your support.

Gem
 
Hi,
There is a vet called Tim Brazil that specialises in this sort of thing, he is based Gloucestershire way but seems to travel a vast amount. So if you cannot find a local vet to do it for you it may be worth contacting him and seeing when he is next in your area.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Everyone,

Ok - it deffo seems like not being able to scope at home it a bit out of the ordinary then? My vets are pretty well known (well in my area they are) so am a bit suprised they dont have the kit to do it!

I really didnt know this as have never had to have a horse scoped before so genuinely didnt realise,

If it can be done at home then I deffo want to do that - as the main reason I dont want to do it, is due to travelling him, because it upsets him so much - plus its prob a 2 hr journey each way from where he is kept - so the day would just be so much stress for him (seeing as he has been a field ornament for 5 years).

I am going to ring the vets now and ask about this again, and if they cant do it will try to find another equine vet locally who can do it - I will let you all know what happens!

Thanks again for your support.

Gem

[/ QUOTE ]

I know of a very well known vets who refused to scope someone's horse 'because it could not possibly have ulcers'. Turns out actually the vets did not own a scope. The owner persisted, got referred elsewhere and low and behold, one horse with ulcers.
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So you're not alone - but it is entirely possible to get them done at your base, the portable ones come in something the size of a large suitcase - my vet wheeled his in on a sack truck this morning! Good luck with it, there will be someone in your area with a portable scope.

As an aside - the actual scopes themselves are v portable - come in a tiny plastic case (I use them for bat surveys to see if bats are hiding in crevices in buildings/trees!) so it's really only the computer stuff which needs to be specifically portable if that makes sense.
 
Poor you, hope he is all better soon! Both pain meds can cause ulcers so a little course of omeprazole won't do him any harm. I also used an electrolyte, and a few very small wet haylage nets. I fed me wine.

If it doesn't abate over time, and in absence of any other input from your vets I would ask advice about the possibility of a lipoma which can be bothersome in older ponies. Was he prone to spasmodic colic in his younger years?

Hope all is back to normal soon!
 
Hi Everyone,

I am pleased to report that all is well this evening, Danny is tucked up in his stable with his steamed haynet - only kicking once every 45 mins or so which is amazing seeing as today is his first pain relief free day - and even on pain relief as been more uncomfortable that he is this evening,

Snoozles - yes I totally hear you on the wine front - he has never coliced in the 20 years i have owned him - until the first mild episode last sept - which only lasted 2 days, 2nd time this June - again lasted about 2 days - and this time...

He has always had a gut of steel previously bless him!

Anyway - here is hoping for a quiet night - I am deffo in need of a bottle of wine - feeling more optimistic about the weekend - as I can be here watching him like a hawk!

Thanks all

Gem
 
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