Spavins = Mechanical Lameness or pain?

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pollypock1211

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Ok my story so far if you havent followed my previous posts - My horse has very complex lameness issues having severe OCD in both stifles and surgery in Feb 2010. He also has spavins in both his hocks, recently been diagnosed with OA in his stifles (as a result of the OCD) and more recently diagnosed with Navicular. He is 9yrs old. Still my horse seems okish. He is a little stiff in a morning, drags his hind toes and plaits his legs but hes eating well, his coat is impeccable and his eyes are bright and alert.

My problem is - today ive discussed further with my vets to pts with the view that id rather it be year too early than a day too late. His lameness has gone on for years weve spent an arm and leg to get him right and done everything possible. He has deteriorated rapidly in the last 8 months. I just feel so guilty and feel i should hang on until i know hes had enough (but this also seems cruel to let it get that far) he is retired at the moment and has been for 7 months or so, but he still has the odd trot and canter around the field. i just really dont know what to do for the best. I had thermal imaging done at the weekend to help with my decision and it didnt show anything to cause concern. So given this, and the fact he doesn't seem to respond to bute and remained lame with nerve blocks could it be possible his lameness in machanical rather than pain related? Id hate to think that my horse was getting put to sleep when he wasn't in any pain and the whole thermal imaging has confused me - i was very surprised when nothing much came back. Yes his hocks and stifles were highlighted but the guy said it wasn't anything he would be concerned over :/

Anyone had any experience or know of mechanical lameness - is it possible with the spavins (they have almost fused now) has anyone had horses with bone spavin and/or osteoarthritis in stifles, and not respond to bute or nerve blocks

Thanks
 
Not all pain is controlled by bute so you can say with confidence that if a horse is better on bute it has pain you canot say with confidence that if bute does not improve lameness the horse has no pain.
you are not in an easy situation I would not allow the thermal imaging to confuse you too much .
Your vet will advise you but finally it's you who will have to decide.
Good luck with it all.
 
I have just read through your other post, my view would be to remove shoes turnout 24/7 for the rest of the summer with minimal interference just routine foot care, worming etc and see what nature does, if he deteriorates during that time then pts but you may find that he can improve with time, something that with the pressure of insurance and all the treatments now available is often lacking.
 
I'm in a very similar position. My boy has spavin and for the last 9-10 months he has been unsound, in particular his trot.

He had steroid injections, 24/7 turnout, danilon, shoes removed etc...

Over winter he got worse, lost weight and his spark. He then started dragging his leg and twisting at the hock.

Vet recalled and we agreed PTS. Date booked, I came to terms with losing him and so on.

In the past couple of weeks he has transformed. He is still on 1 danilon a day but looking sounder then ever before, hes alert and his coat is shining.

I've decided to wait and give him longer seems as he has found a new lease of life he deserves the chance and seems to be coping.

As my friend said, even if they are no longer ridden or 100% sound. So long as they look well, are eating happily and coping then let them enjoy their time.

It's a horrible situation to be in but you will know when it's time. Just make sure you are 100% with your decision.

I'm hoping to get my boy through summer and then re-assess before winter arrives.

Good luck what ever you decide but think it through. Also, I found everyone had an opinion whether they were horsey or not... I was grateful for advice and it helped but try not to be too influenced by others, you have to decide.

I feel for you hugely x
 
Even if the lameness is mechanical it will cause pain elsewhere in the body from constantly moving badly.

I feel for you hugely and in your position I would think about PTS.
 
Many years ago we had a pony with spavin which we treated with bute, although being naive at the time didn't know/think about the long term effects of it. When taken off the bute, he was 'wonky' at first when ridden but when warmed up he was fine, and continued jumping and xc up until he died aged 19 (from unrelated injury).

I think it is difficult to tell with these things though! Problem is, if he hasn't been ridden in that time he will also have lost lots of muscle, which will now also make the problem worse imho as he has less support for his issue.

When you say stiff in the morning, is he being kept stabled? anyway you coudl change to 24/7 turnout and see if that makes a difference - is he sound when warmed up?
 
I think if he is bright and cheerful in himself, and you can afford to keep a field ornament then no need to PTS. People have aches and pains as they get older, but it doesn't make life not worth living. You can tell with a horse if they have had enough.
 
Guys - you need to take a 2 to 3 year view on spavins. It's not a death sentence

We have had the spavin thing - never injected - had the lameness and scrubbed toes, sore back etc. My guy is

  • Shoes off - they won't help - leave the feet alone. Get a trimmer with experience of this condition.
  • Stop feeding any grains or bagged feeds if you can - give linseed meal for the anti-inflammatory action - grain such as barley, wheatmeal etc makes it worse
  • Don't inject.
  • Don't do tight circles
  • Don't keep them stabled - let them move around as much as possible
  • Do keep them dry and warm - so rug them. Treat them as a human with arthritis
  • Do give plenty of minerals - Na, Cu, Zn, Mg, Se - something like Pro Earth's product etc.
.

My guy hacks out, does long distances, schools, jumps. I got a good result. But I didn't get it by farrier interventions and injections.
 
It depends on the where the hocks have fused. My horse had problems with the top and bottom joint and they both fused. If the bottom fuses it changes the way they move but they can carry on if the top fuses then it won't bend. I made the decision earlier this year that it wasn't fair, my boy struggled to have his feet trimmed or even picked out and then he started with problems with his front legs so I had him pts. Each horse is different and only you and your vet who knows the history can make the decision - good luck its not a nice place to be
 
Great posts wagtail and Brucea, agree completely.

TBH, although this is something that people won't like, I do think horses to some extent should be treated no different to humans with aches and pains, yes obviously you don't want to be riding a horse thats in agony, but discomfort etc when first starting if they are still happy to do it I don't personally think is a massive problem. You never know if a horse is in pain or not, as more often than not the herd leaders are strong and will not show pain, our boss pony has had abscesses before that he didn't show any sign of lameness for - we only knew about them when we had the farrier - he's just well 'ard :cool:
 
Yes, as well as the OCD in his stifles he also has the start of Osteoarthritis (OA) there. Although OA is mild at the moment (he was last xrayed in Oct 2011). Vet would like more work for the spavins to fuse but less work for his stifles.

He is out through the day and stabled at night during bad weather. Summer months he is out 24/7. We have tried barefooted but he did not cope very well so vet advised remedial shoeing for the navicular. Xrays showed that his navicular bone only has slight changes also.

Physio came out last week and said he does not seem to have any compensating pain and his back was clear ! but she said it is only because i am managing him so well and all the other times she has seen him he has been in full work. He has been retired for the last 6 months or so.

I am still unsure about pts - i know his prognosis is very poor and he will have to remain retired at just 9yrs old. He is currently on 2x bute per day and looking really well but i work very hard to keep him by paying livery, paying for his remedial shoeing, bute and if things go wrong in the future (which no doubt it will) i am not insured for any of his legs :( I cant afford two horses & i want nothing more than to go out this summer and have fun.
 
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