Specialised saddles

siennamum

siennamum

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I don't want to post on Firewell's thread as I think she is having a hard time and probably wishes she hadn't posted.

I am bemused by the apparent groundswell of opinion though which asserts that to compete effectively/have a correct position you need a specialised saddle.

I have a Mark Todd book, where he states that GP's are absolutely fine up to Novice BE and that until recent years International riders (he mentions the French particularly) were doing their dressage tests in their jumping saddles. Until relatively recently many people didn't have specialised saddles and I personally think that some saddle designs now are highly detrimental to the horse.

I am interested in people's opinions. I only ever have GP's, can't afford to do otherwise. I know that my balance and effectiveness would be improved with a jumping saddle and that I would look and ride better in a dressage saddle.

I actually think that everyone should be able to ride well in a GP and that if you can't - you need to review the way you ride, not spend a couple of grand on your kit

When I look at people I regularly see jumping saddles which place the riders weight towards the horses loins and rarely see riders with a shoulder, hip, heel alignment. I think many people don't give this a thought, without it you simply can't ride effectively, forget what saddle you are in and heaven forbid anyone could phsically ride bareback.
 
Well, I ride bareback quite regularly - Most other liveries seem to think that is another mark on the sheet towards confirmed insanity though...

I have one with a jump saddle, and one with a dressage saddle. The only reason I don't have a GP saddle is I have extrordinarily long thighs. Someone measured them once and was amazed at the length. My saddler was open in that I would struggle to buy a GP that accomodated the limbs borrowed from a spider.

However, lots of friends have GP's, and I ride in those just fine, or the teeny pony's 15" saddle fine, just I choose to buy something I fit it!

I would much rather the pony with the dressage saddle had a jump saddle though, as I'm really starting to struggle jumping her now she is getting more powerful, and more exuberant!

My personal preference would be a nice jump saddle with a flat seat, and no blocks. My old mare has done all her flatwork in this, up to half pass, walk pirouettes and the like.

What I would get rid of (if, of course, the world was run by me!) would be the saddles with the huge blocks, that invariably you see some riders gripping into for dear life!
 
Simply previously I have been told I'm a very effective dressage rider (top 3 bd talent spotters and the like ;) ) but I majorly struggle to maintain a good effective position in a gp or jump saddle. So to allow the horse to work to the best of its ability.

I currently have to use a jump saddle for schooling and dressage and the only way I can get my horse to work properly is to do 99% of my work without stirrups so my leg can be in the correct position. She can do a 'so so' acceptable test in a jump saddle but without doubt she goes 100% better when I'm in the correct position something I just can't do with my feet in the stirrups of my jump.

For the moment I'm coping with it as I had to just buy a new car but the first chance I can a dressage saddle is next on purchase list!

The French changed as they realised they can get those extra marks quite easily by a simple change. And yes you can ride a BE novice test in a jump or gp saddle (I am tomorrow!! ;) ) but the test won't be a world eater and will not be the best that could have been produced and you will be unlikely to be competitive at that level!
 
It's not that you can't do it, of course you can, it's that it makes life more difficult and it's a relatively simple change to make (finances notwithstanding). Dressage is all about the whole picture - I can ride on the flat in my jump saddle, but it makes me look even more hobbit like on a big horse, and means my leg isn't in the most effective position to do dressage. Frankly if I rode like Mark Todd I could probably do a better dressage test than me whatever saddle I was in so I think it's slightly disingenuous to invoke people like him making pronouncements like that ;)

If I could use my seat/thigh as effectively in my jump saddle as in my dressage saddle, I probably wouldn't need a Pelham for jumping, because I can go from mediums to extended etc in a snaffle. I can't jump 1.10 in a dressage saddle though, and in fact when I was schooling recently in the dressage saddle, someone had left some spaniel height jumps up, tiny things, and I couldn't even jump those well in the dressage saddle!

If you're serious about competing and you perhaps lack experience in how to sit/use your body effectively, it will be much easier to learn in a saddle designed for the job.

Got to say, I'd never buy a GP saddle again, don't see the point, would rather have a jump saddle than a dressage one, and next horse will probably only have the one to start with, but eventually the day will come that I'll want a dressage saddle!
 
I think the consensus on the other post was that a specialised dressage saddle should help with the postitioning of rider when it comes to doing the DR test. As per my previous post, my lower leg used to swing back when I was jumping, and it looked awful, and really wasnt very good. If I really thought about it I could keep them where they should have been, however it was hard work.

Bought a jumping saddle and instantly this problem disappeared.
 
I changed from my beloved armchair of a gp when my horse's physio commented on the tension in his shoulders. Tried him in a dressage saddle and instantly unblocked his movement and he is much happier, as an added bonus it helped me with my position and ability to influence him too.

Now I feel that having a saddle specifically designed for the job is the best option when you can afford it.

I don't think FW was denying usefulness of a DR saddle for DR, only that at her current level using a GP should be adequate and that she didn't want to blame the tools for areas she wanted to work on in herself.
 
The right saddle, i.e. fits both horse and rider and is geared towards the specific discipline is a no brainer in my eyes.

Riding horses is hard enough as it is, why give yourself an extra handicap!!!
 
I have 4 pairs of trainers at home but only one pair would I dream of going running in, only 1 pair would I go hiking in and the others are for general dossing around and non specific but go with jeans etc. I could go running in my hiking shoes but they are heavier, the soles are designed to walk on stoney terrain so have little flexibility so I would run a mile and be knackered and probably have shin splints. My running shoes could go hiking, but they would get wetter, I would feel the stones and they do not have effective grip.

With saddles its the same. My dressage tests improved by 12% from having a dressage saddle. I was able to collect the horse better with my core and have my leg in a more effective position. Dressage is enough of a subjective thing without having to fight against the saddle as well.
 
As above, I'd far rather have a good jump saddle and do flatwork in it. Of course if you have good poise and position then shoulder-hip-heel alignment etc are fine in just about any saddle... IF the stirrup bars are in the correct place, which is a HUGE deal, and the reason GP saddles are pretty crap!
Riding with dressage length stirrups in a jump saddle doesn't usually work either... you are better at maybe 1 or 2 holes below jumping length. longer than that and the placement of the stirrup bars doesn't help at all.
But, for dressage we want that long-stirruped, straighter thigh position, which you can't usually get in a jump saddle. Just as you can't hoick your stirrups up 8 holes and jump in a dressage saddle without your knees going off the front (let alone the depth of seat of some dressage saddles would make them a bit grim to jump in).
Saddles with swappable-flaps are a bit of a faff but a fairly good idea, IF the stirrup bar positioning isn't a problem. (Depends hugely on length of rider's thigh I suspect).
Tbh with 2nd hand saddles as cheap as they are, I don't see the problem. fwiw I hack out in my dressage saddles all the time, they are really comfy. The only GP saddle I have on the yard is my magic fits-all backing saddle, and I only bought that because it was a Swain saddle and an absolute bargain on ebay!
 
All the valid points have been made. I'd also add that in ybe dinosaur days.GP saddles were much more targeted - you bought a VSS or a VSD, and generally much less to them. Also, the standard of dressage was much lower.

Personally, I'm much more worried about people jumping in them! Many of the armchair-like ones put riders in a very insecure position and impact on the horse's jump. Of course some VSS saddles are virtually jump saddles so if they let the rider sit correctly, no problem. That is the crux of it though - there are saddles that HELP you sit correctly, ones that LET you sit correctly, and many that actively interfere with sitting correctly.

I teach someone who has been eventing up to BE100 double clears and mid/high 30s in a GP. I have made noises about her saddle all along, as she struggles with her position, gets shaken lose when her athletic horse jumps well, and struggles to let him gallop efficiently. She borrowed a saddle to jump in one day, then went to her next event in her GP and came back convinced. Luckily she was able to make a deal with someone selling two saddles, good but not top quality. The difference in a week is amazing. She is a good rider on a lovely horse, who works incredibly hard and it's lovely to see them both not have to struggle quite so much. In her case I suspect there might have to be a change later, when the demands get higher, but for now the saddles have made a sea change.
 
I will also air one of my pet issues. . . ;)

We now stress an immense amount about how saddles fit the damage that can be done. This is actually quite a recent development and we used to take a much more generalised approach to tack.

But somehow we are not allowed to extend these same concerns to the rider. If you are not sitting in balance then you are hindering, possibly harming your horse. I understand why people don't want to hear this and I totally understand why it can't always be fixed, but to pretend otherwise seems disingenuous. A struggling rider is no fun for a horse.

Before you all jump on me, I know why I'm not allowed to say this and I don't expect people to ride like Mark Todd but surely the most important piece of equipment to the horse is a well fitting rider?
 
You see, I think this is the basis of my concern about people insisting on specific saddles to correct/enhance riding.

I think the saddle type comes after you have sorted whether you are balanced, and is less important than saddle fit. I don't express myself brilliantly and people have assumed I am saying I wouldn't bother with a specialised saddle. That isn't the case at all. Having evented in a VSD would I would kill for a jumping saddle and think that starting my youngster who is extravagant over a fence in a VSD was detrimental to him and me.

I just think that if the riders position is wrong, and the saddle is a decent one, with sensible alignment of stirrup bars and sitting the rider in the right place, and critically if the horse is happy and soft over it's back in the saddle, then changing to a dressage saddle isn't an absolute neccessity. Rider could expect to compete perfectly happily in a GP at novice BD.

I also think that when I was eventing 30 years ago, I had one GP saddle that went on everything and they all went well and were happy (and different shapes & sizes) but I was 8.5 stone and sadly that made a huge difference.
 
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