Spooky horse - help at wits end!

Wigglypigs

Wigglypigs

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Hi everyone, Not been on for ages (was trying to wean myself off while at work so i didnt get scaked lol) BUT im in dire need of some HHO help and advice!

I have a 9 year old dutch warmblood by concorde that has been in this country for around 3-4 years. He is the type easily stressed, hates being in his stable on his own and box walks and whinnys etc until his two neighbours come in. He is stabled on a yard with about 20 horses that is really well run, you could set your watch to feed/turnout times etc.
I got him in December 2007 and it seems like he has gotten more and more spooky as time has gone on. He is at his worst in the school at the yard. Last night I was at breaking point when I couldn’t even ride a 20 meter circle without a huge spook shooting across school etc. I ended up giving up as I was so frustrated and fed up.
The odd thing is he isn’t spooky out hacking although I don’t like taking him out ( I don’t trust him as can be nappy) two of my friends take him out and he will pass piles of rubbish/quads etc without blinking.
I have had him at a local indoor school for lessons and at a big show centre on a clear rounds night and he had a couple of little spooks but quickly settled.
At home he is always more interested in anything else that’s going on around him than concentrating on being ridden. In the summer I tended to ride him in the fields we have where he was much better.It only seems to be in the arena he is impossible. The odd this is he spooks at a quad parked next to the arena fence that has been parked in the same place without moving for 4months - he never seems to get used to it! One long side of the arena has a garden adjacent where there can be large dogs loose. The dogs show no interest in the horses in the arena and are quite slow moving yet even if one is just walking along beside the fence he ‘fixes’ on it from afar and the closer he gets the more the head goes up like a giraffe and once he is about 3meters from it he with throw a massive spook.
He is turned out for 7-8 hours every day and his diet is mostly unlimited good quality haylage with just a nominal amount of chaff and beetpulp morning and night when everyone else gets fed.
I have never tried him on a calmer so this might be an option but I am sceptical that a lot of them are gimmicks.

Advice and other peoples experiences much appreciated – JD and coke if you made it to the end!
 
Firstly I would either turn out for longer or 24/7, horses burn off more energy out than in!
If you can't do this, can you move him to a smaller yard with more turnout.
Calmers are a bit trial and error, what might work for one horse does't for another.
Perhaps he doesn't like being schooled LOL! I know I would much rather be out on a lovely hack than riding circles zzzzzzzzzzzz
 
I've found it very interesting watching the Ferdi Eilberg masterclass series on Horse and Country TV. One of the most important things he said (to my mind) was that it can be very difficult to put a time frame on schooling, especially the sharper horse.

So whilst it's frustrating that he's being a bit of a prat I wonder if simply working away quietly until he's settled is your way forward. This could take 20 mins - or an hour.

I also wonder if he's picking up your nervousness??
 
From May until September he will be out 24/7 but outwith these times theres only the daily turnout avalible at the yard and im not keen on moving - probablty more likley to sell the horse first lol

He is only in the schooled 2-3 times a week at most and often goes longer between being ridden ( i get lazy in winter and have another horse to ride too)

I might get a calmer and give it a try - any recomendations?
 
Lunge him first? Or take him for a small hack to calm him down first? Have you tried schooling him with other people riding in the school- I know its annnoying having to didge them, but if its a confidence thing rather than naughtiness it might help.
Was he well schooled when he was brought in? If he was imported I guess he would be, but they might of soured him by doing too much too fast?
Not sure that helps much!
 
Could he be turned out for longer even in winter? It sounds like he isn't getting enough exercise. A few things which helped my spooky tb were 24/7 turnout with others, lots of varied hacking, and also some "spook busting" exercises, which you could do in the school. It would certainly give him something to think about and focus his interest, as well as give you and him more confidence. Daft stuff like walking over rugs, past plastic bags on sticks, umbrellas and so on. Use your imagination but also a good dose of common sense regarding safety. You can do it in-hand at first but make sure he respects you and won't run over the top of you if something frightens him.

One of the best things I find is long reining, which gives them some independence at the head but without anyone being on board. But you need to have some experience of it and DON'T go out and about if you aren't 100% confident with him.

I tried a few different calmers but the only thing that seemed to make any difference was plain old magnesium.
 
Lunge him first.
Are you nervous when riding?
Keep him focused and listening to you lots of circles changing rein/shoulder in etc anything to keep him listening to you and not worrying about what else is going on around him.

Also leave him out at night, he should be a little tired when you ride him in the morning if not used to it (cheaper than calmers)
 
Thanks for the reply - he is just as spooky on the lunge and remains like that throughout. Not sure if i can explain this very well but he doesnt get better if he goes past something 100 times, he will still act like he hasnt seen it. Its like the quad - its been parked on the other side of the arena fence without moving for 4 months yet he sticll spooks at it.
I had a friend riding with me last night and it made no difference to him sadly. I almost feel like when we are somewhere new he has so much to look at that his attention is held so he doesnt spook so much where as at home he is comfortable so can waste time focusing on the 'scary' things

I bought him from a girl who had him a year and a half and was selling him as she was terrified of him. It was mostly on the ground as he is big and knows his size and strength and was quite pushy and bargy when i got him. He used to throw his head in the air and refuse to let her bridle him etc.
We have worked through loads of issues and he is alot better its just the bloomin spooking. I am a fairly confident rider but i am just so fed up with not being able to work him properly lol
 
In the winter the turnout is restricted to what he is getting at the moment im afraid.
Hes ok to long rein but spooks just the same. i dont think its a lack of confidence on his part more that his attention wanders to things to look at that are more interesting/exciting.
If i ride him in a small set of spurs and weld my inside leg on with his head turned slightly to the inside he is a little better and just manages a little 'kink' to the inside or a flicked ear to the 'spooky' object.
Ive had magnesium recomended before - might tray that for a few weeks and see how it goes. thanks
 
Re the lunging- donesnt make any difference as he isnt spooky because he is fresh and just keeps spooking even is totally knackered

The advice re the circles and leg yielding is what i would normally do as well but i cant even get that far sometime sas he wount even walk up one of the long sides without having a strop. its almost like he wont even concentrate for 2 mins before he has a 'spook'
thanks though - anyone want a DWB free to any home lol
 
I wouldnt say i was nervous but I do 'expect' it as if i was ready for him to spook id be off over his shoulder and its a laong way down
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What happens if you drop the reins every time he spooks? I had a horse who similarly would spook repeatedly in the arena and when I started dropping the reins and totally ignoring it he stopped doing it quite quickly. Bizarre, I know, but then spooking repeatedly at familiar things is also bizarre. Also putting polos on or near spooky things - after a while the spooky horse would start to spook and then march up to the spooky thing to find the polo!

Mostly, though, I would say he needs to go and do other things. I find that horses who spook in the arena at home tend to be in need of a bit more excitement. My current horse was impossible to school properly in the arena at home after I backed him because he spooked violently and repeatedly, but as soon as he started hacking it got a bit better and then once he was competing the spooking stopped completely.
 
Does he actually have a job to do? Other than hacking and schooling.

Do you compete him regularly and generally 'do' stuff with him??
 
My horse was the same it was and evasion to work and can still be a little bit spooky now but i find the more i give him to think about the better he is. If he is in one of those moods where he doesn’t want to listen and the horses eating monsters are out then i just make sure i never ride a complete circle i just move him around the ménage all the time so he doesn’t really know which way is up. Constantly changing the rein but not in the normal way, across the diagonal, but by half 10m circles etc. Be more creative put poles out or weave between wings etc just keep his mind working all the time and don’t let him off the contact.

Hope that helps it did with mine it got so bad for me that he wouldn’t go up the long side of the ménage and would get half way up then stop and threaten to rear i thought he was scared of a horse wagon parked in the corner till i moved yards and he did exactly the same in the same place in a totally different ménage.

Oh just to put your mind at ease he would be a star at a show or on a hack it was just at home in the school the same as yours.
 
This may sound silly to some but it could very well be the haylage!! Im at a very big yard (54 horses) and a lot of them cannot be fed haylage as it makes them spooky/silly. Try putting him on hay for a couple of weeks and see if it helps. It definetley worth a try.
 
I had a horse who was spooky in the school, much better on hacks, who turned out to have a saddle problem which was more pronounced when you asked him to work, so perhaps ít's worth checking back/saddle/teeth?

I would also try a magnesium calmer, you never know and also try to keep his attention by generating and containing energy. I appreciate this is tough when you are worried about the spooking but maybe book a couple of lessons so that someone can talk you through it?
 
I agree re the needing more excitment in his life. I aim to be out alot over the summer as i have to reley on a friend for transport and her new lorry is almost ready
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he will walk up to the scary bits in the school if i ever turn him out but then he frightens himself and runs away.daft animal
 
Last summer we were out getting Sj lessons at another yard about once every 3 weeks and he did have more variety as we have access to xc course and summer riding field with sj.
I also had him at a combined training day (he was a star sj but xc scared him and he went over backwards as so stressed but thats another story lol) and to a big competition venue thats has training nights - think any height clear rounds and you can stay in and practice over certain fences for a good while.
I bought him with a hope to reg and compete BSJA but dont think thats what i want anymore. id be happy with doing riding club stuff but i cant get him consistant enough at home to warrant attempting any competitions. training days are a plan for the summer though
 
Thanks - def worth a try. he seemed a poor doer when i got him as was ribby and it seemed there was no end to his eating. His last owner had him on conditioning feed but there haylage was poor quality and not adlib so i just dont think he got enough forrage to fill him. a summer at good grazing he was a nice weigh and has maintained that over the winter so im not as scared to change his haylage as i would have been last year. i dont think he will be very impressed though lol he loves the good haylage we have.
 
I have been told by mctimoney person (and can see it myself with the help of a step to stand on ) that his back is not symetrical and although his saddle was fitted to him and still seems to fit him well he is a bit stoppy getting rugs on and off and saddle on but he is no problem to mount - even from the ground (not done often considereing how big he is)
I just wonder where to start - sadler, vet , chiro?? esp as i dont have much to go on other than him being a pain (he is like that with everything though - its his nature)

i bit the bullet last night and have booked lessons with my flatwork instructor. been avoiding her but had lessons with last horse and a couple when i first got him so hoping it might help too
 
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id be happy with doing riding club stuff but i cant get him consistant enough at home to warrant attempting any competitions.

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Don't worry about that - the more out and about he goes, the easier he will probably become to work at home.

Just get him out doing stuff. He sounds like a horse with too much time to think.

Some horses are just not designed for the quieter life......
 
Sounds like my mad moo was and here are a few things that helped me overcome the worst times.

1. Sugar Intolerance?! Mine cannot tolerate any sugar beet - even the virtually sugar free ones sent her loo la. Might also be worth reconsidering your haylage? Feed advice line may have some suggestions.

2. Magnesium calmer...worth a try? I use Nupafeed but there are cheaper alternatives.

3. I think of my mare as a bit of a border collie - her brain needs to be cosntantly challenged or she gets up to no good - so continual variety in school and little hacks followed by little schools and vice versa. I aim for a short sharp quality schooling session and have a very good idea of what my aims are before session so I don't waste any time thinking what I am going to do or she will quickly get bored / unco-operative. I also challenge her a bit with school movements and that keeps her brain busy and happy.

4. Mine is 100% better if a fence is involved in her schooling - she always focused on poles so I can use that to my advantage and it adds essential variety.

5. Read a good book to give you ideas - the Feraless Horse is a good one as are the Jane Savoie books.

6. Wine and a good friend to moan to when times are hard!!
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I have a warmblood mare who would spook at the same thing in the school no matter how many times you would go past it and this was after riding in the same school for over a year! She would also rear for England, spook at a feather in the hedge on a hack, but go past tractors and lorry's without batting an eyelid! In the stable she would jump at the slightest noise, go bannanas if a horse walked by etc
Tried everything but seriously had got to the stage where she unnerved me to ride her and I also had 2 professionals try and ride her (one very well know international rider) who both couldn't do anything with her.
I heard of a feed through my vet that was completely Oat and Barley Free (go to your local feed store and check all feed to see exactly how many contain both and claim to be cooling!) and decided as a last resort to try it.
I am being serious that when I say in 3 weeks I have a completley different horse it's amazing! I can now hack in complete confidence that she will look at something but not spook across the other side of the road and schooling is now up to an hours work with maybe 1 spook! Never in a million years would I have thought a feed could make so much difference but nothing, and I mean nothing, else has changed in her normal routine.
The feed I am using is Falcon Equine Feeds Oat and Barley Free Mix and believe me I am not a rep or anything to do with them.
I'll be honest it was hard for me to find anyone near me who stocks it but now go direct to them and they have been fab.
Good Luck.
 
An easy way to test whether he might be in pain is to put him on pain killers for 2-3 weeks and see if his behaviour changes. If it does then it looks like there might be a physical problem and then I would call the vet out for a start.

Just to throw another idea out there: how about a wheat intolerance? Perhaps its worth playing around with his feed a bit, making it really simply to see what happens?
 
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Perhaps its worth playing around with his feed a bit, making it really simply to see what happens?

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After having a mare who could eat neither sugar nor cereal and another who can't tolerate alfalfa, we feed grass nuts which can be fed at quite low levels to maintain/increase condition. We also use them to give our retired cob an easy to eat/digest feed.
 
Have checks done. Get a saddler out, a back person and an EDT out just to rule out any physical problems. I would even go as far as to try and get a horse nutritionist out and see what they say about your horses diet and maybe they can help you with regards to alternative feeds/calmers.
Secondly I am inclined to agree with AmyMay because my mare sounds like your boy, but not as bad. I have no weaked her feed and she is in an exercise programme so that she is always in work and gets worked 6 days a week.
Sounds to me like your horse needs work. My mare gets very sharp and spooky when not in enough work, but when she is in full work she is a complete donkey!
Izzi
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I have had, and still have, to a certain extent exactly the same problem as you.

My mare is now 16yrs old, and I've had her 14yrs, and she's always been of a spooky disposition, even out in the field.

Winter she's normally terrible. Hot summers are better as she's more lethargic (but we haven't had many of them recently!)

I never ride at home when it's windy, nor hack on the road, as that's a guaranteed major spook time / me plopping off.

She's equally spooky on the lunge but doesn't pull me over, just goes round and round faster. Fine with me, as long as I'm not on her!

As someone else above said though, if I introduce some jumps she's much better.

So, I think mine is a boredom thing tinged with general nervousness about her surroundings.

She's best being ridden in the middle of a big field, as she appears to be scared of trees and hedges BUT at competitions and in company she's a LOT better if not perfect.

For years I hacked out with my Shetland Pony on tow as she drew comfort from him being by her side!

There's still a couple of sandschools that I can't hire though because she totally freaks down one long side of both, even though there's nothing there. (they are both next to hedges/trees!)

So, I've still not cracked it, but she's a lot LOT better than she was when she was young.

I hate riding spooky horses!!!
 
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