Spotting livery red flags

[stangs]

As a couple of you know, I'm not having a great time at my yard, which recently escalated to a thinly-veiled threat to kick me out. I'm viewing another yard this week. On the surface, it ticks all my boxes - but so did my current yard, so I'm feeling very anxious as to not wanting to make another mistake.

I know the usual questions for viewing a livery yard, but what do people think are good questions/answers to help me deduct whether it'll be a good community to be in, and whether I can trust these people with my boy. What should I be looking out for? I've passed the YO's preliminary test from the looks of it, but any advice for making a good impression?

Plan is to go for a walk in the surrounding area afterwards and see what the roads/hacking is like. Is there anything else worth doing to get a full picture of what life would be like there?

 

[Zoeypxo]

When people come to view our yard they usually ask to speak to current liveries to ask questions and get a feel for the yard. Maybe an idea to have a chat with other liveries about anything you are unsure about.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would ask YO what kinda disciplines are most popular at the yard, it might be a good mix of people which is what you want. If she could recommend good hacking routes etc

 

[ITPersonnage]

Think it depends what you are looking for from other people - do you want hacking buddies/people to socialise with or would you prefer they left you alone ? If you need help with anything is there anyone available that you trust ?

 

[Lady Jane]

Do they allow dogs and children - no right or wrong answer, it depends what suits you. Opening closing times, arena booking, is hay completely ad-lib (obvioulsy you shouldn't be wasteful and be throwing it on the muck heap). Protocols for bringing in if there are just 2 horses out there, turn out 24x7/limitations, bedding limitations eg how many shavings do you get per week, can you buy in your own. I could go on.....some of these dpend on whether you are on DIY/assisted/full. The yard where my retired boys are on livery have a really scary list of yard rules but aren't quite what they seem eg can'y use hose actually means please be sensible with the water and don't leave the hose running. No deep litter means please manage your stable so we don't feel sorry for your horse and have to do it ourselves. GHood luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[Bernster]

Me and my friend had a horrid experience at our last yard (and since learned we were one of many). I had got 2 recommendations for it, so even that’s no guarantee. I should have read between the lines of what those people had said!

I’d ask qus based on what the issue is at your current yard, ask to speak to other liveries or see if you know people there or, even better, who have left there. Ask why current space is available.

But I’m afraid it will always be a bit of a gamble. Saying that, my previous yard was so horrible (yard manager and her family) that anything was better. Luckily we found a lovely yard manager on a personal recommendation.

 

[Rowreach]

But I’m afraid it will always be a bit of a gamble. Saying that, my previous yard was so horrible (yard manager and her family) that anything was better. Luckily we found a lovely yard manager on a personal recommendation.

There's loads of things not perfect about the yard I'm at, but the YO and her OH are just wonderful, and that makes up for it.

OP it depends what your priorities are, but yard turnover is a good clue - generally a high turnover means either the YO/yard is a problem, or the liveries are a problem and the YO has been getting rid. Either situation is not a good one to walk into, but a settled yard is usually a sign of a good yard.

 

[Bernster]

Aye, rowreach, we don’t have a proper size school, and the hacking is very limited but I try and remember that turnout and horse care are what’s it’s really about, and are the horses happy (yes), with a friendly atmosphere - and not have my head turned by fancy facilities on big yards!

 

[Dexter]

How man spaces have they got and why? Why did those liveries move. As well as rowreaches turnover one

 

[Chianti]

I think it's very difficult as I've been on yards that really haven't worked for me, but other people have been very happy. I would try and get confirmation in email from the owner/ manager of any issues that are important to you. I once spoke to a female yard owner on the phone to discuss the support I would need, went to see her to look at the yard and confirm she was ok to offer the help and then went again to confirm it was really ok. I took a place, arrived, took pony off the lorry. I started talking about his feed and her partner, who I hadn't met, said' Oh, we don't feed them, not for that price.' Female yard owner looked at me as if she'd never heard this mentioned before. Livery yard owners/ managers can seem to have memory problems.

 

[ycbm]

There's loads of things not perfect about the yard I'm at, but the YO and her OH are just wonderful, and that makes up for it.

OP it depends what your priorities are, but yard turnover is a good clue - generally a high turnover means either the YO/yard is a problem, or the liveries are a problem and the YO has been getting rid. Either situation is not a good one to walk into, but a settled yard is usually a sign of a good yard.

Aye, rowreach, we don’t have a proper size school, and the hacking is very limited but I try and remember that turnout and horse care are what’s it’s really about, and are the horses happy (yes), with a friendly atmosphere - and not have my head turned by fancy facilities on big yards!

Ditto. I have moved from amazing facilities and off road hacking to get guaranteed hours of turnout in a proper field, not a small paddock. The unexpected bonus is that I'm now with a like-minded old-school yard manager who is all about the welfare of the horse and quite prepared to lose liveries who don't meet her expectations (rules) for horse care or respect for other people.

OP, on turnout, look at the fields. If they are pristine you can bet your bottom dollar that turnout will stop when there's been a bit of rain, and quite likely get shorter and shorter hours as the winter goes on, no matter what is promised.

 

[Sossigpoker]

OP, on turnout, look at the fields. If they are pristine you can bet your bottom dollar that turnout will stop when there's been a bit of rain, and quite likely get shorter and shorter hours as the winter goes on, no matter what is promised.

This ^^
And winter is the best time to look around a yard as you'll know if the turn out really is year round

 

[ycbm]

One of the liveries said to me "if there's a heavy frost we'll get the yellow paths". She was referring to used straw put down to enable staff to turn out safely if the yard was icy ?. I was pretty sure I'd found the best turnout I could get in the area.
.

 

[Rowreach]

One of the liveries said to me "if there's a heavy frost we'll get the yellow paths". She was referring to used straw put down to enable staff to turn out safely if the yard was icy ?. I was pretty sure I'd found the best turnout I could get in the area.
.

That YO is one of us ?

 

[stangs]

This ^^
And winter is the best time to look around a yard as you'll know if the turn out really is year round

Luckily this would be full grass, so turnout is guaranteed. More worried that I won't know how rich the grass is until the spring.

 

[SEL]

Here's my advice.
- anything such as turnout agreed on email.
- ask why there are vacancies
- turn up when other liveries are around so you get the vibe as to whether they're nice, cliquey etc.
- ask to look at the stables / fields you'd be allocated
- if you're worried about the grass then ask how they deal with fatties

Can you bring in own farrier / instructor / bodyworker? And one yard I looked round had a certain (small) amount of hay inc in price and then insisted you but any more from them at a greatly inflated price. Same YO moaned about a livery horse that had just rolled and said he looked disgraceful. She wasn't joking and I owned the biggest mud monster at the time!!

 

[Lilly-Mayspookatbags]

Bit of an odd one …

But do they accept copy’s of passport?

Simple question but says a lot about them.

Two out of Four yards I’ve been on demanded the physical passport . Very quickly learned that it was because liveries had to make fast moves from the yard. Poor yard management , quality of care and highly emotional yard owners (one has multiple court cases against her from previous liveries)


The yards that accepted photocopies were lovely yards and always have waiting lists. Good quality of care , happy liveries and happy horses.

 

[Caol Ila]

Bit of an odd one …

But do they accept copy’s of passport?

Simple question but says a lot about them.

Two out of Four yards I’ve been on demanded the physical passport . Very quickly learned that it was because liveries had to make fast moves from the yard. Poor yard management , quality of care and highly emotional yard owners (one has multiple court cases against her from previous liveries)


The yards that accepted photocopies were lovely yards and always have waiting lists. Good quality of care , happy liveries and happy horses.

That's a very good point. I had a very awkward leaving experience with a yard that demanded my horse's physical passport. Never again.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I recently had to find a yard in a new country for my yearling, and I had to think of what I valued for this particular creature because it differed from (but was actually quite close to) what I would've valued for my 10 yr old ridden horse.

The YO that I ended up with was very clear about the things that she cared to be particular about and she would be strict on. She had a contract ready. She also isn't afraid to tell people to leave if they don't put the horses welfare first or are abusive. No disrespect is allowed, either is leaving a mess, or disrespecting property. Her firmness on things are over understandable matters such as when you open a gate that's closed, you must close it again.

She knew exactly what she was feeding, what kind of grasses were in her hay and fields, and firmly believes in hay available at all times.

I was just looking for a big safe field, with a herd, hay, water, and grass. Bonus for having a roundpen, stables available, and small indoor school.

I liked that it was clean when I walked around her place and not a single horse was in a stable (this was midday). Everyone lives out but a stable is always available should your horse need rehab from an injury or if the weather gets really wild.

My values:
Hay always available
Water always available
Decent enough grass for some grazing
Big field
Good fencing
Herds/social possibilities
Decently kept place
No BS

Her values:
The same


So if your lists match up, that gives you a higher chance at success, I think. Plus the overall vibe was good. It's calm and relaxing there. I like walking through the field. I like seeing the other horses all peacefully existing. When I leave the yard, I feel good...except for when I over stress about silly stuff that has nothing to do with the yard or YO ?

Odd vibes and red flags include looking like a deer in headlights when I asked what they fed/if they offered grain. Saying that horses only go out for 2 to 3 hours in small pens as weather allows. Believing that a handful of bedding is enough. Not being sure if they want to have boarders anymore. Showing up during what is usually peak activity time in the evening and the place being a ghost town without a soul in sight and the gate was locked (we had an appointment). Calling rugs "horse jackets" and a mostly empty tack room that smelt like straight up mold...soo incredibly strong.

The passport photocopy is an interesting point as well.

The unexpected bonus is that I'm now with a like-minded old-school yard manager who is all about the welfare of the horse and quite prepared to lose liveries who don't meet her expectations (rules) for horse care or respect for other people.

I love this because I've been at yards like this and am at one now.

 

[chaps89]

One of the liveries said to me "if there's a heavy frost we'll get the yellow paths". She was referring to used straw put down to enable staff to turn out safely if the yard was icy ?. I was pretty sure I'd found the best turnout I could get in the area.
.

I’ve always done that, I like the name yellow paths for it

 

[Rowreach]

I’ve always done that, I like the name yellow paths for it

In the days when we had proper winters it seemed like the yellow paths were a fixture in the weeks after Christmas. Or winter 2010 when the freeze began on 24 November and lasted till the New Year.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

One thing I found helpful when looking was asking the lady who gave my horse physio about certain yards I was considering. I was friendly enough with her to get some insights and as they are treating individual horses and she knew I wouldn’t drop her in it, she was happy to warn me off a couple of places! One place when I was being shown around, the YM said hello to some liveries and they looked like rabbits in headlights! I then had it confirmed that it was not a nice yard. current yard was a recommendation as she confirmed the YM is not a nutter and is someone who hates drama on a yard which is good enough for me! it’s not perfect so my only other recommendation is as noted by others - try and find someone with the same values you have, otherwise it’s a constant niggle at best, fight at worst. My YM is great, brilliant horseperson but doesn’t have the same need for constant turnout that I do. That said, it’s small yard and my requests are accommodated well enough. If you start on the same page with basic care then that’s the ideal.

 

[throwawayaccount]

hmm, may be worth asking if prices are staying the same or are they looking to increase at any point?
you could also ask are any livery services or rules likely to change in the near future.
I wish i'd asked the latter for my new yard as 3 weeks after moving on they changed the rules and no longer offer flexible services.

for a full picture, you could google/search the yard and see what comes up for it - perhaps people have wrote reviews in the past as an example that gives a true picture

 

[follysienna]

Facebook is very useful to have to bit of a stalk. Probably more relevant to sole use/small yards but consistently readvertising spaces every few months rings alarm bells for me. Probably not as relevant to a bigger yard which will naturally have higher turnover. There is a sole use yard near me which is advertised every few months, apparently the owner is awful.

 

[stangs]

Just realised I never updated.

Every I met was perfectly pleasant, but it was quite a busy yard which I doubt I’d settle in, let alone horse. Horse wouldn’t have coped with the mud they had or the grass they get in the summer. It’s a shame as I would have had more facilities than I have access to now (i.e. a tack room and an arena), but will just have to make the best of the situation I’m currently stuck in.