Spraying fields to kill weeds - need an idiots guide please

[sandi_84]

Ok I need a simple explanation of what weedkiller I would need to use to kill off the weeds in our field. This is our first year of paddock management by ourselves so are learning slowly but surely the best ways to keep it.

As I understand it we've missed the window to spray this year?

We have Docks (which are totally infesting the field!), Ragwort (which for this year we have just dug out and removed completely from the paddocks), Nettles (although horses like these dried and they aren't poisonous are they? my brain has gone numb! :d) and a couple of buttercups but luckily not a lot of those.

We are having the field topped this year but next year it would be good to know what to use.

Also as a side note bonus question, how do you know what type of grass you have growing and how do you PH test soil?

Thanks for any advice

 

[Rollin]

When I lived in the UK I used to patch spray with a knapsack sprayer. Grazon 90 for docks, thistles and nettles and Pastoral for buttercups. I am told that Grazon is discontinued and I am not sure of the regulations for spraying if you don't have a licence.

The best thing is to go to an Agricultural merchant and ask them what weedkillers are available for which weeds. Do protect yourself with a mask and gloves and check the datasheet for times to rainfast and quantities to use.

 

[Rollin]

Just noticed you are in Scotland. I used to shop in Stirling, Carrs of Billington and McKaskies have what you need.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

takes many years to rid weeds totally .

in the meantime i would spot kill - get some roundup and spray the docks .

Dig up ragwort cut down nettles and thistles

 

[sandi_84]

I'm pretty far away from stirling

If I use roundup on the docks how long do you have to keep the horses off it?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Get someone in with a tractor sprayer to do it for you. You need to be qualified (or appropriately trained if you were born before Dec 1964) to use pesticides like grazon 90 legally. It will also be much cheaper. Its not too late, depends where you are but as long as they are actively growing I'd get them done. You may be too late to stop them seeding this year but it will still mean you have far less next year.

 

[LovesCobs]

Have u got a quad or utv or anything? I have a quad sprayer, wasnt too expensive and it means I can use headland polo. If u search the buttercup threads recently on here there's a link to a company that sells different weed killers, on their site they rate the weed killers on effectiveness with different types of weeds. There's a lot of suggestions on those threads (too much for me to remember off the top of my head) good luck and all the best with your fields

 

[sandi_84]

Get someone in with a tractor sprayer to do it for you. You need to be qualified (or appropriately trained if you were born before Dec 1964) to use pesticides like grazon 90 legally. It will also be much cheaper. Its not too late, depends where you are but as long as they are actively growing I'd get them done. You may be too late to stop them seeding this year but it will still mean you have far less next year.

We're up in the north of scotland and although it's been really hot and sunny recently we are having a spate of bad weather, it's been bucketing down!

Have u got a quad or utv or anything? I have a quad sprayer, wasnt too expensive and it means I can use headland polo. If u search the buttercup threads recently on here there's a link to a company that sells different weed killers, on their site they rate the weed killers on effectiveness with different types of weeds. There's a lot of suggestions on those threads (too much for me to remember off the top of my head) good luck and all the best with your fields

No it's just a small field that we rent with our combined horse and 2 ponies on it so no fun toys like quads for us right now
Thanks, I did have a search and a read of some of those threads but it mostly seemed to be about buttercups


Ok what about the grass type and PH?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Well I am still successfully killing weeds in Perthshire and Fife and I'd expect you would be behind us. Its getting close tho so do it soon. By that I mean get a trained person to do it soon. Your local machinery ring will help, give them a ring.

 

[sandi_84]

Well I am still successfully killing weeds in Perthshire and Fife and I'd expect you would be behind us. Its getting close tho so do it soon. By that I mean get a trained person to do it soon. Your local machinery ring will help, give them a ring.

Ok, thanks

What's a machinery ring? Do you know how to test soil PH and how to identify grass type at all too?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Ok, thanks

What's a machinery ring? Do you know how to test soil PH and how to identify grass type at all too?

If you phone them up and say you want to get a field sprayed they should be able to tell you who to call

http://www.scottishmachineryrings.co.uk/contact.html

You can buy kits to test soil ph just google it. Whoever sprays it might help you identify what grasses but is it very important to know?

 

[sandi_84]

If you phone them up and say you want to get a field sprayed they should be able to tell you who to call

http://www.scottishmachineryrings.co.uk/contact.html

You can buy kits to test soil ph just google it. Whoever sprays it might help you identify what grasses but is it very important to know?

Ah brilliant, thanks again!

I don't know if it's important on one of the threads someone was talking about liming and then fertalising soil but if you have rye grass you don't want to do that? I know nothing about this sort of thing I'm afraid, beginning to think pasture management is a full time job in itself ha ha!

 

[LovesCobs]

OP, I agree the recent posts were about buttercups (of which I have lots this year!) but when I clicked on a link to a weed killer supplier the website it took me to was very good overall for knapsack and sprayer weed killers. I think it was progreen? I decided on this route as the costs for having someone come and spray were high and I don't want all my paddocks doing at once so I'd have to pay it twice. This year it'll cost me the same as getting someone in to do it for me but next year will be cheeper. If u get quoted and they are more than u can afford every year then maybe look into a knapsack sprayer? It's just another option for you, everything is expensive, I've replaced loads of post and rail since I got my own fields, and then paid for electric fencing along the top (so I can hopefully stop replacing the fencing!) I do spend loads more time on maintenance but love it as well!

 

[Bennions Field]

Ph testing is simple just take a normal bucket, put small amounts (less than a handfull) from about 4 inches deep from approx 10 places spread evenly across your field. Mix up well in the bucket to get an even sample. You need a ph test kit from a local garden centre/ on line supplier. It will give you specific details on how to test your sample soil from your field, they all differ slightly on how much soil to water to how much of the test chemicals to use , but are all very simple. The sample bucket of soil just allows a good idea of the whole field. It takes 2-3 mins once you've got your sample to test and the test kit. If the soil is too acidic then you tend to get more weeds as grass likes a more neutral soil, If it's too acidic you will need to add something like calcifert (peleted lime) or agricultural lime it's as simple as that. With regards to different grasses, as a rule if it's old grazing fields there will tend to be a good mixture, if it's relatively newly seeded and by a cattle farmer it's likely to be mainly rye grasses. It sounds like you may have a great link for spraying, and local too so would go with thier advice on what to use. Best of luck, and be reasurred it get easier with time, you learn loads along the way, and done regularly your field will take less time the more you keep on top of things. Just remember to enjoy being on your own place

 

[mandwhy]

We had ours done last week by a man with tractor. We have been waiting for ages for it to be sorted but as long as it is before the ragwort starts seeding with its evil yellowness I think it's fine!

One problem is you don't really want it to rain for a few days, it's only been showers though so the plants are still wilting.

It was quite a cumbersome business, if your fields are any less than perfect rectangular shapes you will probably have to redo bits of it anyway (it couldn't get under low trees either).

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I'm pretty far away from stirling

If I use roundup on the docks how long do you have to keep the horses off it?

me personally i did not keep the horses off it. If there is plenty of grass the horse wont touch the docks, they wither and die quite quickly. I literally sprayed the docks only i walked round the field and just squirted each one individually time consuming but it did the trick

 

[_HP_]

This should help:
http://www.progreen.co.uk/weed-kill...in-grass/weedkillers-for-paddocks/cat_28.html

I've just used Grazon Pro and it did a good job on my docks. I sprayed them, waited a couple weeks and have just had them topped. I may spray again to make sure they are obliterated and to get any I missed.

 

[JillA]

Sorry haven't had time to read all the responses but for docks, thistles, nettles, ragwort etc something containing MCPA does the job well and there is no need to keep livestock off unless there is ragwort which only become palatable when it is dead. I have slowly bit by bit cleared quite large areas with that by just wandering around with my knapsack sprayer every dry day in early summer.
I definitely wouldn't use a glyphosate based one like Roundup or Gallup because you will kill any grass it drifts on to (unless you are using it in a weedwipe system when there is no spray to drift). There are good alternatives to use which are selective and will leave the grass, if not any clover. Look for primarily MCPA, then for more resitant weeds like buttercup, mecaprop and dicambar or 2-4-T. There are numerous proprietory brnd which contain those - look for the contents list - but they need you to keep livestock off for 2 to 3 weeks. It is all in the label instructions.
You can spray at any time they are growing strongly with a decent amount of leaf to absorb the spray, so even into August you can make a difference. Possibly not quite as effective as earlier but remember the instructions are for those investing a lot in a one off spray programme with big machinery and a lot of chemical so they want to maximise the investment.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Data sheet for MCPA states it is not to be used in a knapsack sprayer.

You are breaking the law using these professional chemicals unless you are a holder of PA1&6 or were born before Dec 1964 and have had appropriate training or are working under close supervision of a certificate holder.

Please don't listen to folk on the Internet, even me, get professional advice to be safe, as this thread has proven the need for several times!

 

[sandi_84]

Thanks everyone for the replies I should be better prepared for next year now

 

[RunToEarth]

Data sheet for MCPA states it is not to be used in a knapsack sprayer.

You are breaking the law using these professional chemicals unless you are a holder of PA1&6 or were born before Dec 1964 and have had appropriate training or are working under close supervision of a certificate holder.

Please don't listen to folk on the Internet, even me, get professional advice to be safe, as this thread has proven the need for several times!

I completely agree - spraying licences are a legal requirement because of the margin of error - it is incredibly easy to go very wrong with sprays - please go and find your local jolly farmer who has his PA1 & 6.

 

[JillA]

Data sheet for MCPA states it is not to be used in a knapsack sprayer.

You are breaking the law using these professional chemicals unless you are a holder of PA1&6 or were born before Dec 1964 and have had appropriate training or are working under close supervision of a certificate holder.

Please don't listen to folk on the Internet, even me, get professional advice to be safe, as this thread has proven the need for several times!

What is your source for that? I heard that restrictions were being considered for next year, but so far as I am aware there are none at the moment, other than that a few products are not licensed for knapsack use. Which, according to my supplier, probably just means they haven't been through the necessary trials for knapsacks as it isn't economically viable to do those trials. I have been using MCPA in a knapsack for well over 20 years with no ill effects - the chemical presumably hasn't changed.

 

[RunToEarth]

What is your source for that? I heard that restrictions were being considered for next year, but so far as I am aware there are none at the moment, other than that a few products are not licensed for knapsack use. Which, according to my supplier, probably just means they haven't been through the necessary trials for knapsacks as it isn't economically viable to do those trials. I have been using MCPA in a knapsack for well over 20 years with no ill effects - the chemical presumably hasn't changed.

You haven't been able to use MCPA in a knapsack for a long while to my knowledge, but the EA keep rolling out the warnings because there are a lot that just don't listen...

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/11/10/2010/123922/fresh-warning-over-banned-pesticide-use.htm

In particular, the final paragraph of the article "Straight MCPA can no longer be applied by hand-held applicators and growers using knapsack sprayers will have to look at alternative products, such as 2, 4-D."

 

[FfionWinnie]

What is your source for that? I heard that restrictions were being considered for next year, but so far as I am aware there are none at the moment, other than that a few products are not licensed for knapsack use. Which, according to my supplier, probably just means they haven't been through the necessary trials for knapsacks as it isn't economically viable to do those trials. I have been using MCPA in a knapsack for well over 20 years with no ill effects - the chemical presumably hasn't changed.

From the data sheet, like I said. "Probably just means" when dealing with dangerous professional chemicals is really not good enough for me.

Have you had training from a certified provider or passed PA1&6 out of interest?

 

[billylula]

We used Broadshot in a knapsack sprayer, sprayed the buttercups and docks individually, left it a week then topped the paddock -bit by bit with a lawnmower . Thistles I dig out by hand, nettles I cut down and leave for the ponies to eat as they like them when wilted. The paddock looks a thousand times better and we are prepared to do this for as long as possible or until my husband leaves home

 

[mandwhy]

Is there not anything you can buy as a normal civilian person to treat the last few Ragwort plants that couldn't be got to with the spraying? I would not be that bothered if it killed a bit of grass around it (I can dab it on with a cotton bud if that helps ;-)) and could keep the horses away from patches of it and rotate. I just hate pulling it up as I know it will come back, I want to kill it!

I couldn't care less about thistles and docks and my horse eats all the nettles (I'm actually a bit sad I couldn't avoid having those sprayed) so its just the Ragwort really as some of them were quite big. The buttercups are shrivelling up nicely.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Is there not anything you can buy as a normal civilian person to treat the last few Ragwort plants that couldn't be got to with the spraying? I would not be that bothered if it killed a bit of grass around it (I can dab it on with a cotton bud if that helps ;-)) and could keep the horses away from patches of it and rotate. I just hate pulling it up as I know it will come back, I want to kill it!

I couldn't care less about thistles and docks and my horse eats all the nettles (I'm actually a bit sad I couldn't avoid having those sprayed) so its just the Ragwort really as some of them were quite big. The buttercups are shrivelling up nicely.

You can use Barrier H at any point in its growth process without the need for a license. You can spot spray even when it's flowering. Ridding your land of ragwort is best done earlier on in the year. Remember, when you spray the flowering plant, look for little seedlings near to the main plant. Ragwort seeds can lie dormant for up to 20 years, so getting to the plant before it flowers is best. However, since we are now in the flowering season, spraying with Barrier H will kill the plants and flowers, to an extent. Most importantly, dead ragwort becomes palatible

 

[JillA]

The article quoted refers in the main to pesticides, but then has the final paragraph relating to "straight MCPA". I haven't bought MCPA "straight" lately, it is always in combination with mecaprop or 2-4-D etc, and in fact MCPA is present in some garden selective herbicides. So I still haven't read the source of the information?

 

[RutlandH2O]

I didn't finish the above post.

What I wanted to say was ragwort becomes palatable when it is dead. Someone in a different thread suggested removing the ragwort leaves (with gloves) down to the ground, then spray the stump area so that the weed-killer goes straight to the roots, thus protecting the horse from the dead leaves. I do wonder, though, if the leaves are a conduit for the spray to reach the roots?

Most importantly, there is an industry-wide statement on all the agrochemical weed-killer labels that declares: 'keep animals off treated land for 2 weeks or until the ragwort becomes unpalatable.' That statement is categorically incorrect. Several major agrochemical companies have been made aware of this mistake. Apparently nothing can be done to correct it without the approval of the Chemical Directives agency.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[mandwhy]

Thanks RutlandH2O I did see barrier H online somewhere, will give that a go for any it doesn't get. It has rained a couple of times and the farmer said it might not get the bigger ones.

He did tell me something about the broadleaf killers working by going into the stomata of the leaves and working their way in from there, so I would also wonder if just applying to the root would work.

I will probably dig up the plants anyway when they're dead, I don't mind doing it its just the futility of the task!