Spurs... When to use them?

[Lippyx]

I am finding Toby is getting a little dead to my leg aids, and isn't as responsive as I'd like. I totally appreciate he is only 5, but should he be a little more forward off my leg?

I find myself kicking (and nagging) all the time, which probably doesn't help either of us. I am thinking about upping his feed anyway, due to increase in work load, to something with a little more oomph (he is on Fast Fibre).

Is there a simple, "kind" spur I could use maybe? I wouldn't normally use them, but I don't like relying on my schooling whip all the time, and would prefer he be a little more forward from my leg, rather than my whip, if that makes sense?

Thanks guys xx

 

[JillA]

Roller ball spurs are the kindest but you do have to have full control of your heels so that you ONLY use the spur to back up your leg aid, and become lighter and lighter. Gentle leg squeeze, then gently apply the spur if he ignores it. It should never ever be a way of making your leg aid tougher, in fact it should be used to refine and make it more subtle.
I find with my lazy horse I ask for a pace (back up leg with whip if necessary) and leave him alone. If (and when) he slows too much or even transitions, he gets a strong smack with the whip, but that should only be now and again. Maybe he is too much on the forehand and dragging himself along too much, in which case transitions and lots of them will help? You could use the upward transitions to re-train him to listen to your leg (use the whip as a back up) too.

 

[Casey76]

Spurs are for refinement of the aids - not to give more oomph.

How do you prepare for your transitions? At 5 he is still learning and will need more "setting up".

Do you use a schooling whip? use it to slap the side of your boot, to make a noise. Use your voice, too, to ask verbally for the transition. Also, when making an upward transition, be careful not to catch him in the mouth when he does go forward.

 

[Pinkvboots]

A horse has to be off your leg aid before you use spurs really, they are not used to make your leg aid harder they are used as a sharper more direct aid, I would work on getting him of a lighter leg aid and use the same concept everytime you ride, use a light leg aid if you get no response a sharp tap with the whip behind your leg straight away use the same proceedure with each upward transition, I do lots of halt to walk using a very light leg praise each time he goes forward, when his going nicely into walk do some walk to trot transitions, I find doing this before schooling can help get them listening to you, if you just nag all the time they just switch off you want him moving forward with the least effort from you just keep doing it, you will find you wont even need spurs.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Take a lesson with a BHSII instructor rather than resorting to artificial aids, I have watched international riders working their horses, and they don't use spurs even though they are good riders.

 

[oldie48]

Hi There is a rollerball spur, either rubber or metal (I found the metal ones much better) but if not used very carefully, the horse will get dead to them too and it's very difficult not to nag a lazy horse (been there, done that). Is it lazy hacking as well as schooling? I guess what you really need is something that gets the horse to be more forward thinking. I had a very idle horse in the school (he was great to hack) and i found getting him into canter early on in a session worked well, especially if I tapped him up on his outside hind, loads of transitions within and between the paces also helped. I got a fab book called 101 schooling exercises which gave me loads of ideas. Your boy is young (mine wasn't) but I still found varying the type of work I did really helpful so he didn't get too stale. Also I guess you need to be confident that your boy is fit enough for the work he's being asked to do and isn't carrying any extra weight. Sorry if you just wanted to know about spurs but I don't think they are really a long term answer

 

[Lippyx]

Thanks for the tips guys!

He is down hill and on the fore hand, and I have really been trying to "lift" him more.

I will definitely try your method JillA.
Casey76, I am trying to be more sure of my transitions, and use my body rather than my hands to go down a pace.

 

[Lippyx]

Take a lesson with a BHSII instructor rather than resorting to artificial aids, I have watched international riders working their horses, and they don't use spurs even though they are good riders.

I have been having lessons with a dressage judge and I must admit, when I put my mind to it, and get it right, he was much more forward, its just hard to put it in practice at home. I schooled him last night out in a grass paddock (both schools had lessons) and I made sure I didn't nag and only used my leg when he slowed down. After a while he was more forward and lifting more within his paces. He has got it in him, I think maybe its a mix of training, fitness and energy... especially in the hot weather.

Put a jump in front of him and there is no stopping him!!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I have been having lessons with a dressage judge and I must admit, when I put my mind to it, and get it right, he was much more forward, its just hard to put it in practice at home. I schooled him last night out in a grass paddock (both schools had lessons) and I made sure I didn't nag and only used my leg when he slowed down. After a while he was more forward and lifting more within his paces. He has got it in him, I think maybe its a mix of training, fitness and energy... especially in the hot weather.

Put a jump in front of him and there is no stopping him!!

There is you answer, he is a bit bored and prefers the freedom to run in to his fences, so you should incorporate his schooling in to his jump lessons, make him trot in and out and use poles etc, try 101 exercises for jumping, 25 of these do not involve leaving the ground. He must not be allowed to fast forward in to fences, he has to learn respond to aids. Discipline his work ethic, and think about control of paces. Keep a diary of his training and increase his work by 5/10% per week.
When hacking, set him off at a pace and expect him to stay at that pace till you transition to another, obviously do not over exert him. Do not stop and start at the same places every time, he should be listening to you and waiting for the next command.

 

[Lippyx]

There is you answer, he is a bit bored and prefers the freedom to run in to his fences, so you should incorporate his schooling in to his jump lessons, make him trot in and out and use poles etc, try 101 exercises for jumping, 25 of these do not involve leaving the ground. He must not be allowed to fast forward in to fences, he has to learn respond to aids. Discipline his work ethic, and think about control of paces. Keep a diary of his training and increase his work by 5/10% per week.
When hacking, set him off at a pace and expect him to stay at that pace till you transition to another, obviously do not over exert him. Do not stop and start at the same places every time, he should be listening to you and waiting for the next command.

Thanks for the tips! I think I am going to get the book 101 exercises, sounds really handy!

I am trying him over some small X Country fences today for the first time, just to see how he gets on.
I will definitely try more pole work too.

Its so ironic, as 6 months ago, he felt too fast and "out of control" but I can see that was my confidence, and now he feels so laid back.... I shouldn't complain really!

 

[Tnavas]

Spurs are for refinement of the aids - not to give more oomph.

How do you prepare for your transitions? At 5 he is still learning and will need more "setting up".

Do you use a schooling whip? use it to slap the side of your boot, to make a noise. Use your voice, too, to ask verbally for the transition. Also, when making an upward transition, be careful not to catch him in the mouth when he does go forward.

Totally agree, don't use spurs to just get then horse going!

Make sure that your brain is also focused on the movement you are planning - the power of positive thinking is amazing.

One of my Pony Club kids had a lesson with Mary Robins, horse the same age as yours. She told him to stop using the leg and just use the schooling whip. Tap lightly first, if horse doesn't respond, use again stronger, if still ignored use strongly - be ready for a forward spurt and allow the horse to go forward even if it is more speed than you want, as the horse has actually obeyed the aid to go forward, after half the arena covered ask to slow down.
The result was quite impressive.

 

[mandwhy]

I wouldn't use spurs, although would consider them with a view to using them showing etc. My haffy is exceptionally lazy too, she has got much better though. She used to be so nappy and basically wouldn't trot etc. She is strong on hacks now. I did some pole work the other day and she was very forward and actually working round too. The main problem for me is she will do what I ask pace wise but with minimal effort and varying degrees of resentment! I use a short crop with a nice big leather bit on the end, I find a light smack down the shoulder or on my boot makes a noise that she responds to, schooling whip doesn't seem to get a reaction, I will give her a smack if she's being difficult. At the beginning of the pole work session she was being really awkward and bucking with the napping, so I did have to get a little tough with her when normally she's not quite that obstinate. She enjoyed it after a while and wouldn't stand still! You have to help them find their forward buttons!

 

[Lippyx]

Totally agree, don't use spurs to just get then horse going!

Make sure that your brain is also focused on the movement you are planning - the power of positive thinking is amazing.

One of my Pony Club kids had a lesson with Mary Robins, horse the same age as yours. She told him to stop using the leg and just use the schooling whip. Tap lightly first, if horse doesn't respond, use again stronger, if still ignored use strongly - be ready for a forward spurt and allow the horse to go forward even if it is more speed than you want, as the horse has actually obeyed the aid to go forward, after half the arena covered ask to slow down.
The result was quite impressive.

This is quite interesting... never thought of looking at it like that. I think my problem is when he does go forwards, I then worry that he is rushing and becoming unbalanced, so tend to over correct him.

I am seeing now how my actual riding could be the problem here and not a lazy pony!!

 

[9tails]

I can't tolerate a horse that isn't off my leg, my method would be nudge, nudge, pony club kick backed up with schooling whip to whiz him round the school until I want to stop. You've asked for forward, you can't then ask for not-forward. Then use transitions every few steps to sharpen him right up.

 

[Jenni&Ditty]

I found when riding a lazy horse halt - trot and walk - canter transitions worked really well to get him thinking forwards

 

[tankgirl1]

One of my Pony Club kids had a lesson with Mary Robins, horse the same age as yours. She told him to stop using the leg and just use the schooling whip. Tap lightly first, if horse doesn't respond, use again stronger, if still ignored use strongly - be ready for a forward spurt and allow the horse to go forward even if it is more speed than you want, as the horse has actually obeyed the aid to go forward, after half the arena covered ask to slow down.
The result was quite impressive.

My instructor taught me similar - I was a serial 'nagger!'

His approach was squeeze, nudge, kick, schooling whip, all within a few seconds, and to take off the pressure and let the horse go forward when it finally did! He changed me and my mount from unresponsive to my nagging and slopping around, to transitions upwards from a nudge in just an hour, and it is something I strive to remember every time I ride now - do not nag TG!

 

[tankgirl1]

I wouldn't dare wear spurs without instruction btw, as I have no idea how to use them!

 

[Tnavas]

I can't tolerate a horse that isn't off my leg, my method would be nudge, nudge, pony club kick backed up with schooling whip to whiz him round the school until I want to stop. You've asked for forward, you can't then ask for not-forward. Then use transitions every few steps to sharpen him right up.

This phrase 'Pony Club Kick' really angers me! It is NOT a product of Pony Club. We teach the kids to nudge or tap, then back up with stick if ignored.

If you see anyone booting a pony that hard it's because they have not got the right idea of how to improve the pony's comprehension of the aids!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

This is quite interesting... never thought of looking at it like that. I think my problem is when he does go forwards, I then worry that he is rushing and becoming unbalanced, so tend to over correct him.

I am seeing now how my actual riding could be the problem here and not a lazy pony!!

I've always struggled with my horse with this. Definitely make you when you ask him to go forward that a) you really want him to and b) that you go with him not losing your balance. I had a lesson with someone who teaches rider biomechanics (student of Mary Wanless) and some fairly subtle changes to my position and making sure I went with my gelding and not getting left behind made a massive difference. I don't mean that I was hanging off the back just fractionally behind his movement which then caused him to slow down. Part of the reason was because I was used to a minimal response and wasn't ready when I got a big one. Also with leg aids it was one squeeze, one tap with legs then a big whack on my boot. Breaking down my position minutely making sure my weight was down my thighs and my stirrups were the correct length made such a difference and was a lightbulb moment for me.

My usual BD instructor said she had never seen my gelding go so well at my next lesson she had actually been saying the same thing but I had had a bit of a break over the last year due to time and lack of transport and I had forgotten. Unfortunately my boy has now gone lame and is awaiting an Op as I was really looking forward to his new forwardness!

 

[Goldenstar]

I would not use spurs on the horse OP describes I would carry a dressage whip and use it to train the horse to be more forwards .
Horses learn to ignore spurs just like the leg if they are not clear in their mind that forwards is what wanted .
Lots of transitions between paces and within paces are the way to go backed up with the whip when necessary .
You also need someone to what you ride and check that you are not unconsciously putting on the handbrake some how.