Squabbling Spaniels - help!

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wyrdsister

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Advice please, H&H! I have 2 working cocker bitches (A & F), & regularly look after another belonging to my parents, S. S is A's litter mate and brother. I currently have all 3 with me and have done for 2 weeks. Today, I nipped out to a local show with the horse. I was away for less than 4 hours. When I came home, S had teeth marks in his nose. I know who the culprit is: F. She will growl at both of the others, and has gone for A a couple of times. She's not allowed to get away with it and it seems to be triggered by jealousy, i.e. she wants my attention and to keep the others away. She's not food possessive and I don't leave high value items around unsupervised. To my knowledge, she's never gone for one of the others while I'm out before. I'm rather concerned now that it could happen again and cause a more serious injury. S of the nipped nose is fine and they're all sprawled out in a heap together now. Any advice?!
 
Thanks, I'll have to if it looks like she's going to keep doing this, but a) she's much more likely to be narky if she's isolated and then rejoins the others and b) she isn't predictable about which one she snaps at. When she does it to A, it's only the two of them living together. This is an intermittent issue of F being aggressive with her companions rather than a specific F/S dynamic. It's not often, maybe a couple of times a year, but it does trouble me that this latest incident happened when I was out. Normally, I'm here and can stop her. The other factor is that I visit my parents at least once a week and stay over, so these dogs socialise a lot and are generally fine together. Is there anything training wise I can try to improve F's attitude?
 
I am not experienced enough to advise. Is she spayed? Or could it be when she is feeling hormonal?
 
She is, yes. They all are. Thanks anyway. I'll get a trainer involved, but as we've just moved to our current location, I thought I'd ask here while I sort out recommendations.
 
To stop the feeling of isolation and problems with re-integration, I would pop F in a crate in the same room as the others when you are out/in bed.
 
wyrdsister said:
She is, yes. They all are. Thanks anyway. I'll get a trainer involved, but as we've just moved to our current location, I thought I'd ask here while I sort out recommendations.
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Could she be unsettled by the new house? Maybe Pearlsasinger's suggestion might help as an interim measure.
 
Not unsettled, she seems to love it here and this is the first incident in a while. But the create plan is a good one. Thanks!
 
I'm liking Pearl's idea. You must keep the visiting dog safe. I kept my youngsters crated when I wasn't in so big dog couldn't hurt them. He was quite clear for the first few weeks that they weren't welcome.
 
Yes, will try it. They're all back to normal now, chilled out and cheerful with each other. It's very disconcerting to go from dogs that are totally at else with one another to the sense that there are politics going on below knee level!
 
Cockers, especially the bitches can be decidedly 'needy'. They can often see the human in their life as being their property. All mine are like it! Initially it can be seen as rather rewarding, but it becomes a pita eventually. I may well be wrong, but I'd doubt that you'll 'train' it out of F in that when you aren't with them, any 'training' will go out of the window. All that you can do is to keep them separate when you're not with them, and don't stand for it when they're with you.

Alec.
 
I board dogs some of whom my dog knows very well, she also stays in houses with resident dogs in situ, the dog that is the visitor in the house is always crated when the dogs are unattended- I won't take the risk of fights just for visits.
When you are with the dogs how do you stop the incidents escalating/happening?
 
Twiggy2 -- I may have to adopt that strategy (S has gone home now, so it's not needed atm). This was an unusual episode, though, as if F is going to go for anyone, it's usually quiet little A, whom she lives with all the time and in harmony. With regards to stopping a fight, a stern "No! Stop that!" works before it gets properly launched. If I don't catch her in time, I stick something between them or (yes, I know this one is really stupid!) seize a collar in each hand and roar. A always wants out of the quarrel and is defending herself so retreats with relief. F is instantly apologetic as soon as I'm involved. As I say, they don't often do this and F's not damaged anyone before. Any advice on better ways to break things up -- or to help F stop being antagonistic -- gratefully received!
 
Ok so what you are doing does not change how the dogs feel but stops the reaction. That's a normal human response.
You need to be more attentive (not easy especially when it is a rare event) to what each dog is doing and their body language before the behaviours you don't want happens.
A is possibly retreating because of the human intervention and F is not apologetic (it's not an emotion dogs have) she will be trying to appease you because of your intervention.
I try distraction before escalation to prevent an 'outburst' and if it happens call the dogs (nicely) and leave the room if that will be enough to interrupt the behaviour.
If you shout you are joining in and if your energy levels and emotion both rise you also become a driving factor in the arousal of the dog/s.
Trying to find what triggers the behaviour is key because unless the dog has a condition causing it then it won't be random behaviour.
 
Okay, I'm not going to get into a discussion about what emotions animals do or don't have; we'll disagree. I do accept that I'm stopping the reaction, not whatever precipitates it. What is unsettling about F's outbursts is that there is no warning. I've had a pair of sister siblings who would squabble occasionally; there were always signs there and I could intervene quietly, pretty much just as you say. F goes from chilled to launched in a split second. Even A seems startled by the grumps, and she's usually very good at signalling when she's not comfortable with someone or something. In case any of this helps: F is a much tenser dog than the other two, more likely to be on high alert, and has a very high prey drive. She is more growly day to day and gets worried more easily. She tends to go hackly and growly if someone gets attention that she wants -- again, often unclear as to why that moment is different from the last moment, when she was sharing the attention peacefully -- or if the other two play together (half in jest, half in seriousness, we refer to her as a the fun police). All this said, 99% of the time, she's a sweetheart. She adores people, particularly children, and loves to play with other dogs on walks. The issue is very much localised to her house and her companions. Any further thoughts, please?
 
twiggy2 said:
As emotion drives behaviour in dogs any further thoughts would not be of any help.
I hope you get things resolved and they escalate no further.
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I understand that, Twiggy2, and it's why I have serious concerns about some of the current scientific thinking about animal emotion. On this particular issue, we may disagree less than it seems since a high percentage of human apologetic behaviour is appeasement-based. However, I don't want to get sidetracked into a large and complex debate. Thank you for your help so far. I've booked some sessions with a respected trainer and behaviourist in our area to see if we can get to the root of her reactiveness.
 
She's five, Alec. I really should have dealt with this much earlier on, but she arrived in my life during a run of horribly difficult years so it hasn't happened. For the most part, she's fine just a very different character from S and A.
 
wyrdsister, my honest opinion is that at the age of five, she probably has her mind set and it would be unlikely that you or any one else will be able to affect any meaningful or permanent change. It isn't the end of the world! It seems that you manage her well including her wobbly moments. Very few of the dogs which I've had, over the years, have been entirely stable, most have needed management, and we've sort of rubbed along! We cope with their ways and foibles, it's just how they are, and I suppose, how we are! :)

Alec.
 
Mm, I suspect that may be the case. Still, I'll see what's said about her in case they can see a trigger that I've missed. If there's nothing much to be done, as you say, then we'll work on other things to keep her brain busy. She's a hugely active dog so I'm sure we'll get something out of it! Thanks :-)
 
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